Titoli di Stato area non Euro ARGENTINA obbligazioni e tango bond

lassa perdere GAU gainare non è il tuo forte :D

ah dimenticavo vatti a vedere l articolo del FT che cita le riserve in $ tra i 39 mld e i 45.4 mld

e tu che dicevi che son truccati e gli altri che ti seguivano :rolleyes::lol:

...ma tu dirai che il Financial Times è un giornaletto di parte :lol:
allora sei in una botte di ferro :-o

compra,compra :rolleyes:
 
Ok, è vero, ha preso uno svarione perché il default con 4000 di cds in effetti non c'è stato, però è stata una rara eccezione alle regole...poi, per carità, anche le eccezioni possono ripetersi...ma a 4000 di cds un titolo lo compri scommettendo sul recovery post-default, di solito.

Detto questo, il sig. autore dell'articolo della fonte postata da Tommy, a mio giudizio non è affatto uno sprovveduto, non fa il profeta di certezze ma mette sull'avviso e soprattutto i grafici li sa fare e analizzare eccome: personalmente seguo da molto tempo i suoi sull'oro (sempre free) e devo dire che quasi sempre ha anticipato perfettamente i movimenti del metallo giallo in maniera sorprendente, cosa che ho utilizzato con notevole vantaggio...:D

In questo caso argentino il grafico è piuttosto banale nella sua evidenza e credo si commenti da solo:
poi non farà default, continuerà a onorare i debiti...(parliamo di argentina), ma il rischio che invece lo (ri)faccia e non paghi c'è, è tornato ed è in deciso aumento.

caro comandante sul metallo giallo ci acchiapperà pure ma sull' argentina è meglio che lasci perdere ... già prima li consideravo poco i suoi articoli ( troppo sensazionalistici) d ora in poi li seguirò ancora meno

allora sei in una botte di ferro :-o

compra,compra :rolleyes:

caro Gau i debiti distressed (Groupama docet :DD:) non sono il tuo forte dammi retta lassa perdere !
 
lassa perdere GAU gainare non è il tuo forte :D

ah dimenticavo vatti a vedere l articolo del FT che cita le riserve in $ tra i 39 mld e i 45.4 mld

e tu che dicevi che son truccati e gli altri che ti seguivano :rolleyes::lol:

...ma tu dirai che il Financial Times è un giornaletto di parte :lol:

Infatti il mio dubbio è su questo... sulla carta ci sono.
 
Argentina asks U.S. judge to wait for bond dispute appeal | Reuters



By Daniel Bases and Nate Raymond
NEW YORK | Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:22am EST

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Argentina asked a U.S. judge late on Friday to maintain his order blocking payment on defaulted sovereign bonds to holdout investors until lingering questions are settled in a higher court's appeals process.
Less than 15 minutes before a midnight deadline on Friday, Argentina's lawyers filed their brief outlining why U.S. District Judge Thomas Griesa should reject the argument by holdout creditors to pay them in full on debt that has been in default since 2002.
The arguments came three days after Argentina asked the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York to reconsider its October 26 ruling that favored these holdout bondholders and rattled financial markets in the process.
That decision upheld the ruling, that was made by Griesa, that found the South American nation discriminated against bondholders such as Elliott Management Corp's NML Capital Ltd and Aurelius Capital Management. They refused to take part in two debt restructurings as Argentina tried to recover from a $100 billion default a decade ago.
Greisa had put his own ruling on hold pending the appeal and Argentina on Friday argued he should keep the freeze in place until outstanding issues were settled.
"The Court should not accept the false urgency plaintiffs are trying to create and allow the Republic and all potentially affected third parties to prosecute their appeal rights before any orders go into effect," Argentina said in its brief.
After the 2nd Circuit's ruling, Argentine officials were widely cited in the media saying they would flout the court and continue to pay investors who participated in the debt swaps but would never pay the holdout investors.
That prompted Griesa to demand a direct government pledge to comply with his orders.
National Director of Argentina's National Bureau of Public Credit, Francisco Eggers, submitted a signed affidavit saying the government would abide by the court's rulings and not seek to evade its directives.
"As directed by the court, on behalf of the Republic, I confirm that the Republic has complied, and will comply with the terms...," Eggers said.
Last month's ruling led to fears U.S. courts could ultimately inhibit debt payments to creditors who accepted the terms of the restructuring, out of consideration for investors who rejected Argentina's terms at the time.
This would trigger a technical default on approximately $24 billion worth of debt issued in the 2005 and 2010 exchanges.
"It is far beyond the bounds of equity to seek to enforce the rights of one litigant by jeopardizing the rights of others," lawyers representing a group of bondholders who participated in the exchange, led by Gramercy Funds Management LLC., said on Friday.
The briefs from Argentina and the exchange bondholders addressed two questions that the appeals court had referred back to Griesa for answers.
These were technical questions of how debt payments would be calculated and how to treat the involvement of third-party banks such as Bank of New York Mellon, which act as transfer agents for money owed to exchange bondholders.
Argentine President Cristina Fernandez said immediately following the October decision her country would not pay "one dollar to the vulture funds". That is her term for holdout investors who buy distressed or defaulted debt and then sue in international courts to get paid in full.
Eggers' statement contrasted with Fernandez's vow to keep making payments to other creditors.
Argentine bonds closed up 1 percent on average in over-the-counter trading in Buenos Aires on Friday after accumulating a loss of 4.1 percent in the previous three sessions.
TELL US WHAT TO DO
Bank of New York Mellon (BK.N), which transfers funds from the Argentine government to the country's bond holders, argued in a brief filed late on Friday to Griesa that it is not an agent of the Argentine government and maintains an "arm's length" relationship.
The bank said its "duty of loyalty runs to the Exchange holders", that is, to enforce the rights of investors who exchanged their bonds in 2005 and 2010.
"Punishing an innocent third party to try to obtain compliance from an enjoined party goes beyond any legitimate purpose for contempt," BNY Mellon said.
The bank said it could be put between a rock and a hard place if Griesa rules they are to make payments to all parties but are prohibited because Argentina does not transfer any money through it.
"BNY Mellon will face a potential conflict between its obligations to Exchange Holders under the Indenture and its obligations to the Court," the bank argued.
In that case, the bank said, it needs guidance from Griesa on what its duties and responsibilities would be.
Ultimately, the bank wants Griesa's order to remain in place, leaving the payments frozen until the 2nd Circuit reviews and rules on his logic.
The judge is expected to make a speedy response as Argentina is due to start making $3.3 billion worth of payments to exchange bondholders starting December 2. Griesa's ruling will automatically return to the appeals court for review.
In a court filing this week, NML and Aurelius urged Griesa to lift his February 23 stay on payments pending appeal.
October's ruling by the appeals court largely upheld injunctions issued in February by Griesa in favor of the holdouts, which own roughly $1.4 billion of defaulted debt.
The holdouts said in their argument to Griesa that terms of the swapped Argentine bonds may allow the country to circumvent the United States by using subsidiaries in London and Luxembourg to make debt payments.
VESTED INTERESTS
Weighing in on the arguments before the deadline were other transfer agents, holdout investors and exchange bond holders.
The Clearing House Association, a banking association and payments company, sent a letter to Griesa explaining that any order should not apply to beneficiary's banks, funds-transfer systems or other parties in a funds transfer.
The letter was obtained from a source with direct knowledge of the case. It argued the ruling would cause "disruption of payment systems and delays in processing legitimate payments" made by Argentine entities that have nothing to do with the case.
Law firm Duane Morris, representing about 100 mainly Italian holdout investors with approximately $165 million in principal and pre-judgment interest, sided with NML.
"Despite its proclaimed ability to pay, Argentina has steadfastly refused to make payments that are due under the defaulted bonds - even to the individuals who are not "vultures", Anthony Costantini, a lawyer with Duane Morris wrote in a brief to Griesa on Friday.
On the other side are bond holders who participated in the exchanges who urged that NML not be allowed to collect on its judgments.
Fintech Advisory Inc, a New York investment management firm that gave up $698.9 million of the $1.052 billion it was owed by Argentina during the two debt swaps, argued if the judge sided with the holdout bondholders, Argentina would be in breach of contracts with exchange bondholders like itself.
"There is no basis for any order to cause such a result," Fintech's lawyers wrote.
 
Ultima modifica:
Ok, è vero, ha preso uno svarione perché il default con 4000 di cds in effetti non c'è stato, però è stata una rara eccezione alle regole...poi, per carità, anche le eccezioni possono ripetersi...ma a 4000 di cds un titolo lo compri scommettendo sul recovery post-default, di solito.

Detto questo, il sig. autore dell'articolo della fonte postata da Tommy, a mio giudizio non è affatto uno sprovveduto, non fa il profeta di certezze ma mette sull'avviso e soprattutto i grafici li sa fare e analizzare eccome: personalmente seguo da molto tempo i suoi sull'oro (sempre free) e devo dire che quasi sempre ha anticipato perfettamente i movimenti del metallo giallo in maniera sorprendente, cosa che ho utilizzato con notevole vantaggio...:D

In questo caso argentino il grafico è piuttosto banale nella sua evidenza e credo si commenti da solo:
poi non farà default, continuerà a onorare i debiti...(parliamo di argentina), ma il rischio che invece lo (ri)faccia e non paghi c'è, è tornato ed è in deciso aumento.

E' vero, ogni tanto "Intermarket" su alcuni argomenti non centra il bersaglio. Qualcosa ho notato anch'io ...

Ad ogni modo, i CDS che si sono impennati verso l'alto sono un dato di fatto. Che poi questi non siano il Vangelo, non ci piove ...
 
Resta sempre il fatto che si tratta di 1,3 miliardi di USD, non di una cifra tale da mandare in default (un'altra volta) l'Argentina. Ad ogni buon conto prenderanno tempo ancora un annetto e mezzo, forse due, e nel frattempo potrebbero proporre un accordo extragiudiziale con gli holdouts per chiudere la questione. Secondo me, si sta facendo un gran casino per niente. Più preoccupante è il fatto che il Pil del paese sta rallentando e le riserve potrebbero cominciare a sgonfiarsi se continuano a importare come dannati dall'estero.
 
Argentina Won’t Evade Orders in Bond Case, Official Says

Argentina won’t evade the orders of a New York court that is considering suits by holders of the country’s defaulted bonds, an official said in court papers.
Argentina “has complied, is complying and will comply” with the terms of a March 5 order barring the country from changing the way it pays holders of its restructured debt to try to evade the court’s jurisdiction, according to a declaration filed late last night by Francisco Guillermo Eggers, director of Argentina’s National Bureau of Public Credit.
Argentina also asked U.S. District Judge Thomas Griesa to reject the bondholders’ arguments that they must be paid the full value of their bonds, plus interest, before the country can make payments to investors who agreed to accepts bonds of lower value in two debt restructurings.
The U.S. Court of Appeals in New York ruled Oct. 26 that Argentina must pay holders of the defaulted notes if it pays off on its restructured debt. Griesa is considering how to apply the ruling to third parties and setting a formula for paying holders of the defaulted bonds.
In a court conference Nov. 9, Griesa requested that the country confirm its intention to comply with his order while he considers those two issues. Holders of the defaulted bonds had cited press statements by Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner and members of her cabinet that, they claimed, show the country is trying to evade the appeals court ruling.
Bondholders’ Demand
Holders of the defaulted bonds, who are seeking more than $1.4 billion, want Griesa to block Argentina from going forward with more than $3 billion in scheduled payments on the restructured debt next month if it continues its refusal to pay them.
Argentina argued that requiring it to pay 100 percent of the value of the defaulted bonds violates the principal that those bondholders be treated equally with restructured bondholders.
“Plaintiffs’ unprecedented demand for over one billion dollars from the fiscal reserves of a foreign state, with further demands to follow as more ‘me too’ plaintiffs pile in, had the immediate, intended effect on the market of sending it into disarray,” Argentina said in its brief. “Faced with losses already, third-party bondholders have asked the court to protect their interests.”
Third-Party Harm
Argentina also claimed that the plaintiffs’ proposed solution would harm non-parties including Bank of New York Mellon Corp., the trustee for holders of the restructured bonds, financial institutions tied to payments on those bonds, and registered bondholders.
Earlier yesterday, BNY Mellon told Griesa that he shouldn’t hold the bank responsible if Argentina fails to pay holders of the defaulted debt.
“BNY Mellon has no control over Argentina and no involvement in Argentina’s performance of any obligations to plaintiffs,” the bank said in a court filing yesterday. “Plaintiffs’ efforts to threaten an indenture trustee with an extraordinary citation of contempt go too far.”
Argentina defaulted on a record $95 billion in debt in 2001. In 2005 and 2010, the country offered to let holders of the defaulted bonds exchange them for new bonds at a discount more than 70 percent, according to a brief filed today by holders of the exchanged bonds. About 92 percent of the bondholders accepted the offer, they said.
Griesa said he will rule by Dec. 1 on the payment formula and the issues relating to third parties. Argentina has asked the appeals court to reconsider its Oct. 26 ruling.
The case is NML Capital Ltd. v. Republic of Argentina, 08- cv-06978, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
To contact the reporter on this story: Bob Van Voris in New York at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Michael Hytha at [email protected]
 

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