Obbligazioni societarie La saga della famiglia Espírito Santo: cosa succederà alle obbligazioni BES ed ESFG?

Io ho la ZC 2052 in carico a 18, a 16 e spicci non la vendo. Per la 2035 neanche ci penso.
 
Mi sembra ci sia.

Se si hanno quantitativi importanti ...uscire diventerà un po' difficile.

Il rendimento minimo verrà annunciato prima della chiusura dell'offerta

Announcement of the New Notes Minimum Yield
Announcement of the New Notes Minimum Yield.
At or around 6:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time) on 26 June 2018
Expiration Deadline
Final deadline for receipt of valid Instructions by the Tender and Exchange Agent in order for Eligible Holders to be able to participate in the Offers or, in case of revocation, revoke their Instructions.
5:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time) on 28 June 2018

Però poi prezzo verrà stabilito successivamente?

New Notes Pricing Date and Pricing Time
Determination of the New Notes Yield (which shall be equal to or greater than the New Notes Minimum Yield).
29 June 2018 at or around 3:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time)
 
Il rendimento minimo verrà annunciato prima della chiusura dell'offerta

Announcement of the New Notes Minimum Yield
Announcement of the New Notes Minimum Yield.
At or around 6:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time) on 26 June 2018
Expiration Deadline
Final deadline for receipt of valid Instructions by the Tender and Exchange Agent in order for Eligible Holders to be able to participate in the Offers or, in case of revocation, revoke their Instructions.
5:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time) on 28 June 2018

Però poi prezzo verrà stabilito successivamente?

New Notes Pricing Date and Pricing Time
Determination of the New Notes Yield (which shall be equal to or greater than the New Notes Minimum Yield).
29 June 2018 at or around 3:00 p.m. (Lisbon/London time)

Il prezzo del nuovo T2 è fissato a 100, ma come hai anche scritto il rendimento minimo viene comunicato il 26/6/2018, poi il 29/6 collocano il T2
 
grazie a tutti delle info che avete postato. Io a meno di un rendimento stratosferico (cosa che non credo uscirà), le 2035 non le mollo
 
rimarrò sicuramente sulla senior 35.....

....ma non ho capito: lo swap sulle T2 è gia aperto senza dettagli sul rendimento?!!? I dettagli per gli swap sono gia noti? per gli ZC sarà a parità di nominale?
 
Io la mia zc 2045 non la molllo .
Ricordo che il rating è cc2 outlook positivo e nell’ultimo report moodys diceva che su ci fosse stata una emissione sub , questa avrebbe aumentato automaticamente il rating senior.
La cosa più saggia è attendere e sperare che venda conclusa questa emissione .

Secondo una mia personale opinione si passerebbe ad un rating Low b

Ps prezzi del ritiro senior sono ridicoli
 
Minchia che velocità







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Novo Banco, S.A.
Related Research
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Credit Opinion: Novo Banco, S.A.: Update following confirmation of deposit ratings at Caa1 with a positive outlook
Rating Action: Moody's assigns Counterparty Risk Ratings to six Portuguese banking groups
Rating List: Moody's Investors Service – Update On Credit Ratings Remaining on Review
Rating Action: Moody's confirms Novo Banco's deposit ratings at Caa1, outlook positive
Rating List: Moody's Investors Service – Update On Credit Ratings Remaining on Review

Rating Action:
Moody's assigns (P)Caa3 subordinated debt rating to Novo Banco, S.A.

22 Jun 2018
Madrid, June 22, 2018 -- Moody's Investors Service has today assigned a provisional (P)Caa3 long-term domestic-currency subordinated debt rating to Novo Banco, S.A.'s (Novo Banco -- long-term deposit rating of Caa1 with a positive outlook, long-term senior unsecured debt of Caa2 with positive outlook and BCA of caa2) planned EUR-denominated plain vanilla Tier 2 bond issuance (the notes).



Moody's issues provisional ratings in advance of the final sale of the securities. The ratings, however, only represent Moody's preliminary credit opinion. Upon conclusive review of all transaction and associated documents, Moody's will endeavour to assign definitive ratings to the notes. A definitive rating may differ from a provisional rating.



RATINGS RATIONALE



The provisional (P)Caa3 rating assigned to the subordinated debt obligations of Novo Banco reflects the security's loss absorbing features in the case of failure, being subordinated to senior obligations. The rating is positioned one notch below the bank's adjusted baseline credit assessment (BCA) of caa2, in line with Moody's standard notching guidance for plain vanilla subordinated debt instruments. The provisional rating does not incorporate any uplift from government support.



The planned subordinated debt issuance is expected to be eligible for Tier 2 capital treatment under European law. The positioning of Novo Banco's provisional rating one notch below the bank's adjusted BCA reflects the probability of default in line with the Adjusted BCA and the high loss severity for subordinated creditors in the event of the bank's failure, due to the limited volume of debt and limited protection from more subordinated instruments and residual equity.



WHAT COULD CHANGE THE RATING UP/DOWN



Novo Banco's subordinated debt ratings are linked to the standalone BCA. As such, any change to the BCA would also likely affect these ratings. The bank's subordinated debt ratings could also change as a result of changes in the loss given failure that these securities face.



LIST OF AFFECTED RATINGS



Issuer: Novo Banco, S.A.



..Assignment:

....Subordinate Regular Bond/Debenture, assigned (P)Caa3



PRINCIPAL METHODOLOGY



The principal methodology used in this rating was Banks published in June 2018. Please see the Rating Methodologies page on www.moodys.com for a copy of this methodology.



REGULATORY DISCLOSURES



For ratings issued on a program, series or category/class of debt, this announcement provides certain regulatory disclosures in relation to each rating of a subsequently issued bond or note of the same series or category/class of debt or pursuant to a program for which the ratings are derived exclusively from existing ratings in accordance with Moody's rating practices. For ratings issued on a support provider, this announcement provides certain regulatory disclosures in relation to the credit rating action on the support provider and in relation to each particular credit rating action for securities that derive their credit ratings from the support provider's credit rating. For provisional ratings, this announcement provides certain regulatory disclosures in relation to the provisional rating assigned, and in relation to a definitive rating that may be assigned subsequent to the final issuance of the debt, in each case where the transaction structure and terms have not changed prior to the assignment of the definitive rating in a manner that would have affected the rating. For further information please see the ratings tab on the issuer/entity page for the respective issuer on www.moodys.com.



For any affected securities or rated entities receiving direct credit support from the primary entity(ies) of this credit rating action, and whose ratings may change as a result of this credit rating action, the associated regulatory disclosures will be those of the guarantor entity. Exceptions to this approach exist for the following disclosures, if applicable to jurisdiction: Ancillary Services, Disclosure to rated entity, Disclosure from rated entity.



Regulatory disclosures contained in this press release apply to the credit rating and, if applicable, the related rating outlook or rating review.

Please see www.moodys.com for any updates on changes to the lead rating analyst and to the Moody's legal entity that has issued the rating.

Please see the ratings tab on the issuer/entity page on www.moodys.com for additional regulatory disclosures for each credit rating.
 
Io la mia zc 2045 non la molllo .
Ricordo che il rating è cc2 outlook positivo e nell’ultimo report moodys diceva che su ci fosse stata una emissione sub , questa avrebbe aumentato automaticamente il rating senior.
La cosa più saggia è attendere e sperare che venda conclusa questa emissione .

Secondo una mia personale opinione si passerebbe ad un rating Low b

Ps prezzi del ritiro senior sono ridicoli

Moody’s ti scava ascoltando:D
 
Minchia che velocità







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Related Issuers


Novo Banco, S.A.
Related Research
lock.png
Credit Opinion: Novo Banco, S.A.: Update following confirmation of deposit ratings at Caa1 with a positive outlook
Rating Action: Moody's assigns Counterparty Risk Ratings to six Portuguese banking groups
Rating List: Moody's Investors Service – Update On Credit Ratings Remaining on Review
Rating Action: Moody's confirms Novo Banco's deposit ratings at Caa1, outlook positive
Rating List: Moody's Investors Service – Update On Credit Ratings Remaining on Review

Rating Action:
Moody's assigns (P)Caa3 subordinated debt rating to Novo Banco, S.A.

22 Jun 2018
Madrid, June 22, 2018 -- Moody's Investors Service has today assigned a provisional (P)Caa3 long-term domestic-currency subordinated debt rating to Novo Banco, S.A.'s (Novo Banco -- long-term deposit rating of Caa1 with a positive outlook, long-term senior unsecured debt of Caa2 with positive outlook and BCA of caa2) planned EUR-denominated plain vanilla Tier 2 bond issuance (the notes).
scusa ma non ho capito se questo è il rating all'emittente in generale oppure a categorie di emissioni.
 

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