bulogna
Forumer storico
il calcolo è esatto
Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (5 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione negusneg
- Data di Inizio
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- Tags
- additional tier 1 bail in basilea 3 coco bonds crd iv genussscheine grandfathering hybrid bond loss absorption lower tier 2 make whole amount matusalem bond obbligazioni irredimibili obbligazioni perpetue obbligazioni subordinate perpetual bond preference shares restricted tier 1 tier 1 upper tier 2
- Stato
il calcolo è esatto
bosmeld
Forumer storico
Depfa
Signori buongiorno a tutti.
la situazione di Depfa in questi ulti giorni è diventata più opaca....
potrebbe essere una grossa opportunità di Gain, oppure una immane incul..ata
il problema è questo:
I perpetuals di Depfa rimarranno nella parte buona, o andranno a finire nella Bad Bank????
effetttivamente la cosa non è chiara....
io penso finiscano nella parte buona, anche perchè a livello legislativo, per cambiare i prospetti con l'eventuale garante, non c'è bisogno della maggioranza di quelli che ne hanno?????
come la vedete la situazione???
se resta nella parte buona, per me Depfa è un BUY COLOSSALE.
ma se entra nella parte cattiva so AZZ...
nonostante penso rimarrano nella parte buona, al momento di incrementare, a questi prezzi in maniera importante non me la sento.
però dalle quotazioni, forse il mio pensiero è giusto, ieri erano crollate, oggi si stanno riprendendo e cmq tengono.
DEPFA FDG II 03/UND. (WKN 916788, ISIN XS0178243332) - Profil - Aktien, Aktienkurse - ARIVA.DE
SE SI AVESSE LA SICUREZZA CHE LE DEPFA RIMANGONO NELLA GOOD BANK; SAREBBERO SICURAMENTE DA COMPRARE.
VICEVERSA SE SI AVESSE LA CERTEZZA CHE FINISCONO NELLA BAD BANK SONO DA VENDERE...
Signori buongiorno a tutti.
la situazione di Depfa in questi ulti giorni è diventata più opaca....
potrebbe essere una grossa opportunità di Gain, oppure una immane incul..ata
il problema è questo:
I perpetuals di Depfa rimarranno nella parte buona, o andranno a finire nella Bad Bank????
effetttivamente la cosa non è chiara....
io penso finiscano nella parte buona, anche perchè a livello legislativo, per cambiare i prospetti con l'eventuale garante, non c'è bisogno della maggioranza di quelli che ne hanno?????
come la vedete la situazione???
se resta nella parte buona, per me Depfa è un BUY COLOSSALE.
ma se entra nella parte cattiva so AZZ...
nonostante penso rimarrano nella parte buona, al momento di incrementare, a questi prezzi in maniera importante non me la sento.
però dalle quotazioni, forse il mio pensiero è giusto, ieri erano crollate, oggi si stanno riprendendo e cmq tengono.
DEPFA FDG II 03/UND. (WKN 916788, ISIN XS0178243332) - Profil - Aktien, Aktienkurse - ARIVA.DE
SE SI AVESSE LA SICUREZZA CHE LE DEPFA RIMANGONO NELLA GOOD BANK; SAREBBERO SICURAMENTE DA COMPRARE.
VICEVERSA SE SI AVESSE LA CERTEZZA CHE FINISCONO NELLA BAD BANK SONO DA VENDERE...
marc
Forumer storico
Scusate mi ponevo una domanda:
ma se le vecchie p diventano così preziose per le banche potrebbe essere che cercheranno di mantenerle in vita il più a lungo possibile? Ergo niente esercizio di call?
ferdo
Utente Senior
forse se ne era già parlato, ma questi bond come sarebbero considerati dalle nuove normative, in linea con esse oppure superati?
bulogna
Forumer storico
sembra, il condizionale è d'obbligo fino a quando non c'è il documento ufficiale, che ci sarà un periodo di transizione (10 anni?) in cui le banche dovranno adeguare i vecchi p alle condizioni dei nuovi p
bulogna
Forumer storico
Forse è meglio perdere un po di gain ed entrare quando si hanno certezze
Massimo Odiot
Giovane Povero
Buongiorno Kuka, posso solo dirti che anche io sono in una situazione simile alla tua, ne ho 5k prese a 71,75 questa estate... Nella mia ingenuità pensavo di far soldi facili con la call dei prossimi giorni (infatti avevo preso anche la Deutsche Postbank che non hanno callato a fine dicembre...), ovviamente la situazione si è evoluta in modo diverso... Comunque non mi sembra affatto male come obbligazione da tenere in vista di una bella cedola... Mi spiace solo che tu la abbia in carico a prezzo così alto... Se non sei troppo esposto su questo titolo, e se non hai necessità di soldi (io ne avrei ma non troppo, "causa casino della Grecia"), io almeno aspetterei di ricevere la cedola a fine gennaio... Sempre che venga pagata! Oppure vendila il giorno prima del pagamento della cedola... Senti anche altri pareri più autorevoli, e in bocca al lupo!
bosmeld
Forumer storico
penso proprio tu abbia ragione
.p.s oggi dopo un po di tempo che non bazzicavo sulle azioni, apparte un piccolo cip di Aig preso da un po.
ho comprato un primo cip di Azioni Ing
sono entrato con poco, sotto i 7 la accumulo.
primo ingresso 6,725
so terribile, spero che facciano ancora un po di casino con le banche...
così posso comprarne altre a prezzi da saldo
mi sa che mi vendo un paio di perptuals, così da avere liquidi per fare qualche cosina sull'azionario
ferdo
Utente Senior
no dai sono già molto esposto su Banco Marcio ... se scende ancora, e scenderà ......
so terribile, spero che facciano ancora un po di casino con le banche...
così posso comprarne altre a prezzi da saldo
...
Mais78
BAWAG fan club
Munich, 21 January 2010 – Thursday, Hypo Real Estate Holding AG (HRE), in co-ordination with the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Fund (SoFFin), submitted an application to the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Agency (FMSA) for the establishment of a deconsolidated environment aimed at reducing assets in a value preserving manner. HRE Group intends to transfer operations no longer strategically required for the Group's realignment, as well as additional balance sheet items, to this deconsolidated environment. The transfer, which is set to cover assets worth up to EUR 210 billion, is scheduled to take place during the second half of 2010, once all necessary approvals have been obtained from the responsible corporate bodies and institutions.
The transaction will permit Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG, the Group's core bank, to continue focusing on its sustainable and forward-looking core business activities – and thus make an important contribution to the supply of credit for the real estate industry and the public sector. This will also permit loans which no longer fall within the scope of the core bank's strategic focus to be maintained, preserving value, in the interest of the bank's clients. Moreover, the transfer is designed to lower Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG's additional capital requirements, and to accelerate the process of preparing the Group for an eventual re-privatisation. Specifically, the Group contemplates transferring parts of the public finance and real estate finance portfolios of DEPFA BANK plc and Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG. The public finance portfolio consists of highly-rated government or government-related assets which, despite their strong credit quality, are currently suffering from lower market valuations. Parts of the real estate financing portfolio are affected by the prevailing difficult environment that continues to burden this segment.
The transfer may also include assets currently held by other Group entities, particularly DEPFA ACS BANK (Dublin), Hypo Pfandbriefbank International (Luxembourg) and Hypo Public Finance Bank (Dublin), as well as structured products and trading positions that are exposed to increased default risks, which will have been written down if necessary or will have been included in the net trading result.
Derivatives positions (predominantly used as hedges for both asset and liability items) might also be transferred to the deconsolidated environment. There are discussions regarding an inclusion of selected funding instruments in the scope of the transfer to the deconsolidated environment, in addition to assets. However, no transfer of unsecured fundings, Pfandbriefs or other covered bonds issued by Group entities for funding purposes is planned. Details regarding the actual asset portfolios, liabilities and derivatives to be transferred, the manner in which the transfer will take place, and the exact specifications of the deconsolidated environment, have yet to be determined in coordination with the FMSA. It is anticipated, that Group entities will continue to manage the portfolios as well as providing additional services to the deconsolidated environment. The parties intend to resolve these issues by mid-2010. In parallel, the necessary IT infrastructure will be established and processes separated.
CEO Axel Wieandt said: "Establishing a deconsolidated environment is a key milestone in the Group's realignment process. We will thus strengthen pbb Deutsche Pfandbriefbank as the Group's core bank by relieving it of nonstrategic or sub-performing assets, significantly reducing the size of its balance sheet."
The establishment of a deconsolidated environment is governed by the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Fund Act („FMStFG“). The application for establishing such an institution was submitted pursuant to section 8a of the FMStFG. There is no legally enforceable right upon establishment of a deconsolidated environment: whether and to what extent the application will be approved is within FMSA's discretion. The transfer of assets requires the consent of executive bodies of the legal entities involved. Furthermore, the use of a deconsolidated environment is subject to approval by the European Union. Accordingly, this has already been included in the European Commission's ongoing state aid control proceedings.
This development was also reported on German TV channel ARD.
The transaction will permit Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG, the Group's core bank, to continue focusing on its sustainable and forward-looking core business activities – and thus make an important contribution to the supply of credit for the real estate industry and the public sector. This will also permit loans which no longer fall within the scope of the core bank's strategic focus to be maintained, preserving value, in the interest of the bank's clients. Moreover, the transfer is designed to lower Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG's additional capital requirements, and to accelerate the process of preparing the Group for an eventual re-privatisation. Specifically, the Group contemplates transferring parts of the public finance and real estate finance portfolios of DEPFA BANK plc and Deutsche Pfandbriefbank AG. The public finance portfolio consists of highly-rated government or government-related assets which, despite their strong credit quality, are currently suffering from lower market valuations. Parts of the real estate financing portfolio are affected by the prevailing difficult environment that continues to burden this segment.
The transfer may also include assets currently held by other Group entities, particularly DEPFA ACS BANK (Dublin), Hypo Pfandbriefbank International (Luxembourg) and Hypo Public Finance Bank (Dublin), as well as structured products and trading positions that are exposed to increased default risks, which will have been written down if necessary or will have been included in the net trading result.
Derivatives positions (predominantly used as hedges for both asset and liability items) might also be transferred to the deconsolidated environment. There are discussions regarding an inclusion of selected funding instruments in the scope of the transfer to the deconsolidated environment, in addition to assets. However, no transfer of unsecured fundings, Pfandbriefs or other covered bonds issued by Group entities for funding purposes is planned. Details regarding the actual asset portfolios, liabilities and derivatives to be transferred, the manner in which the transfer will take place, and the exact specifications of the deconsolidated environment, have yet to be determined in coordination with the FMSA. It is anticipated, that Group entities will continue to manage the portfolios as well as providing additional services to the deconsolidated environment. The parties intend to resolve these issues by mid-2010. In parallel, the necessary IT infrastructure will be established and processes separated.
CEO Axel Wieandt said: "Establishing a deconsolidated environment is a key milestone in the Group's realignment process. We will thus strengthen pbb Deutsche Pfandbriefbank as the Group's core bank by relieving it of nonstrategic or sub-performing assets, significantly reducing the size of its balance sheet."
The establishment of a deconsolidated environment is governed by the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Fund Act („FMStFG“). The application for establishing such an institution was submitted pursuant to section 8a of the FMStFG. There is no legally enforceable right upon establishment of a deconsolidated environment: whether and to what extent the application will be approved is within FMSA's discretion. The transfer of assets requires the consent of executive bodies of the legal entities involved. Furthermore, the use of a deconsolidated environment is subject to approval by the European Union. Accordingly, this has already been included in the European Commission's ongoing state aid control proceedings.
This development was also reported on German TV channel ARD.
- Stato