Zorba
Bos 4 Mod
il prezzo corretto è 43-45
Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (5 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione negusneg
- Data di Inizio
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- Tags
- additional tier 1 bail in basilea 3 coco bonds crd iv genussscheine grandfathering hybrid bond loss absorption lower tier 2 make whole amount matusalem bond obbligazioni irredimibili obbligazioni perpetue obbligazioni subordinate perpetual bond preference shares restricted tier 1 tier 1 upper tier 2
- Stato
il prezzo corretto è 43-45
bellyfull
Nuovo forumer
per quanto mi riguarda il mio ptf perpetuo e' ancora composto da:
bpnv 3373, dpb 917, ing 127 e ahime hbos 9,54.
con ing a piu di 60 quanti di voi l'anno tenuta e quanti hanno preferito il gain e venduto? (io la ho in carico a 46.5
ma ho deciso di tenerla)
ho letto che in molti vi state inbarcando
su titoli greci...
per un cippino quali titoli consiglereste?
e grazie
bpnv 3373, dpb 917, ing 127 e ahime hbos 9,54.
con ing a piu di 60 quanti di voi l'anno tenuta e quanti hanno preferito il gain e venduto? (io la ho in carico a 46.5
ma ho deciso di tenerla)ho letto che in molti vi state inbarcando
su titoli greci...per un cippino quali titoli consiglereste?
e grazie
Giringiro
AT denigrator
20-25?io ho minimo 5 euro con IWbank !!!!
E comunque diversificare non ha mai fatto danni anzi .... (male che va riduce gli utili)!
attento con IWBANK perchè sul mercato OTC si paga lo 0,19% minimo 5 euro ma NON C'E' limite superiore.
Zorba
Bos 4 Mod
Moody΄s Places Five Greek Banks On Review For Possible Downgrade
Moody΄s Investors Service Wednesday said it placed on review for possible downgrade the deposit and debt ratings of the following five Greek banks: National Bank of Greece SA, EFG Eurobank Ergasias SA, Alpha Bank AE, Piraeus Bank SA and Emporiki Bank of Greece SA. In addition, the standalone ratings (bank financial strength rating (BFSR)) of these banks, with the exception of Emporiki Bank of Greece SA, have also been placed on review for possible downgrade.
Moody΄s says that these banks have been facing growing pressures on their financial performance and fundamental creditworthiness as a result of the economic slowdown in Greece as well as some of the South-Eastern European markets in which they also operate. Over the past year, business growth, particularly in Greece, has slowed and problem loan levels have increased. The sharp rise in loan loss provisioning requirements, coupled with rising funding costs, has been depressing bank profits.
“Volatility in the financial markets has also given rise to funding challenges and has led to an increased dependence on short-term market funding (primarily from the European Central Bank (ECB)). Opportunities for the banks to secure favourable conditions in the interbank and wholesale markets have become more limited,” the agency says. Moody΄s believes, however, that Greek banks will continue to benefit from ECB funding until market confidence returns which, in turn, will allow them to access the capital markets more easily. The rating agency also notes that the banks΄ large deposit base continues to offer strong elements of stability. Deposits represent about 60% of the banks΄ total liabilities.
Moody΄s says its rating review will consider the banks΄ most recent results and assess the impact of the increasingly adverse economic and financial market conditions on the banks΄ future performance. The rating agency notes that fiscal challenges at the national level may curtail economic growth in the foreseeable future. Moreover, Moody΄s says that a possible rise in unemployment and lower disposable income would likely place additional pressure on the banking sector΄s already weakened assetquality and profitability. However, the review will also consider the medium- and long-term economic benefits of the country΄s fiscal plan, which was updated today with the introduction of additional measures.
As part of the review process, Moody΄s intends to assess the country΄s capacity to support its banking system should solvency support be required. Moody΄s continues to believe that the likelihood of government support, if needed, is very high. The (A1) systemic support anchor, which is used to assign the supported deposit and debt ratings to Greek banks, is currently positioned one notch above the national government΄s debt rating. However, the weakening credit profile of the banking sector -- implying a growing potential need for support -- coupled with the financial challenges faced by the government, may introduce some constraints in the ability of the country to provide broad systemic support to its banking system. Greek banks currently benefit from an average two-notch rating uplift due to imputed systemic support. A lowering of the systemic support anchor could have an impact on the
supported ratings of the above-mentioned five banks.
RATING IMPACT ON AFFECTED BANKS
The specific ratings affected by today΄s rating action are as follows:
National Bank of Greece
All ratings assigned to National Bank of Greece and its funding subsidiaries (NBG Finance plc and National Bank of Greece Funding Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade, including the C BFSR, the A1 deposit and senior debt ratings, the A2 subordinated debt ratings, and the Baa3 hybrid debt (Tier 1) instruments. The Prime-1 short term rating assigned to the bank is not included in the review for downgrade and is being maintained in view of the bank΄s strong domestic
funding position.
EFG Eurobank Ergasias SA
All ratings of EFG Eurobank Ergasias and of its funding subsidiaries (EFG Hellas plc, EFG Hellas (Cayman Islands) Limited, and EFG Hellas Funding Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade, including its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Alpha Bank AE
All ratings of Alpha Bank -- with the exception of government-guaranteed senior debt ratings which retain their A2 negative outlook rating – and of its funding subsidiaries (Alpha Credit Group plc, Alpha Group Jersey Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Piraeus Bank SA
All ratings of Piraeus Bank and of its funding subsidiaries (Piraeus Group Finance plc and Piraeus Group Capital Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Emporiki Bank of Greece SA
The D BFSR is not affected by today΄s rating action and retains a negative outlook.
All other ratings of Emporiki Bank and of its funding subsidiary (Emporiki Group Finance plc) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings and A3 subordinated debt ratings. Although a reassessment of the country΄s ability to support the banking system could lead to some adjustment to this bank΄s ratings, Moody΄s notes that Emporiki΄s ratings will continue to benefit from significant uplift as a result of Parental support. The bank is a subsidiary of Credit Agricole SA (CASA). In case of need, Moody΄s believe that there is a very high probability that CASA would provide extraordinary support to Emporiki Bank.
FOUR OTHER RATED BANKS UNAFFECTED
The ratings of the other four Greek banks rated by Moody΄s namely, Agricultural Bank of Greece ( Baa1/Prime-2), Attica Bank (Ba1/Not-Prime), General Bank of Greece (Baa1/Prime-2) and Marfin Egnatia Bank (Baa1/Prime-2) are not affected by today΄s announcement. Moody΄s notes that the weak stand-alone ratings (BFSRs) for these four banks already capture the heightened level of risks under its main scenario. Furthermore, their supported ratings would not be affected by a reassessment of the country΄s ability to support its banking system. In the case of General Bank of Greece and Marfin Egnatia Bank, the deposit ratings also confer elements of stability as a result of our imbedded assumptions regarding the likelihood of extraordinary support from their foreign parents. Marfin Egnatia Bank΄s deposit ratings are expected to converge with those of its parent bank΄s -- Marfin Popular Bank Public Company Ltd -- once the absorption process, currently underway, is completed.
http://english.capital.gr/news.asp?id=919300
Moody΄s Investors Service Wednesday said it placed on review for possible downgrade the deposit and debt ratings of the following five Greek banks: National Bank of Greece SA, EFG Eurobank Ergasias SA, Alpha Bank AE, Piraeus Bank SA and Emporiki Bank of Greece SA. In addition, the standalone ratings (bank financial strength rating (BFSR)) of these banks, with the exception of Emporiki Bank of Greece SA, have also been placed on review for possible downgrade.
Moody΄s says that these banks have been facing growing pressures on their financial performance and fundamental creditworthiness as a result of the economic slowdown in Greece as well as some of the South-Eastern European markets in which they also operate. Over the past year, business growth, particularly in Greece, has slowed and problem loan levels have increased. The sharp rise in loan loss provisioning requirements, coupled with rising funding costs, has been depressing bank profits.
“Volatility in the financial markets has also given rise to funding challenges and has led to an increased dependence on short-term market funding (primarily from the European Central Bank (ECB)). Opportunities for the banks to secure favourable conditions in the interbank and wholesale markets have become more limited,” the agency says. Moody΄s believes, however, that Greek banks will continue to benefit from ECB funding until market confidence returns which, in turn, will allow them to access the capital markets more easily. The rating agency also notes that the banks΄ large deposit base continues to offer strong elements of stability. Deposits represent about 60% of the banks΄ total liabilities.
Moody΄s says its rating review will consider the banks΄ most recent results and assess the impact of the increasingly adverse economic and financial market conditions on the banks΄ future performance. The rating agency notes that fiscal challenges at the national level may curtail economic growth in the foreseeable future. Moreover, Moody΄s says that a possible rise in unemployment and lower disposable income would likely place additional pressure on the banking sector΄s already weakened assetquality and profitability. However, the review will also consider the medium- and long-term economic benefits of the country΄s fiscal plan, which was updated today with the introduction of additional measures.
As part of the review process, Moody΄s intends to assess the country΄s capacity to support its banking system should solvency support be required. Moody΄s continues to believe that the likelihood of government support, if needed, is very high. The (A1) systemic support anchor, which is used to assign the supported deposit and debt ratings to Greek banks, is currently positioned one notch above the national government΄s debt rating. However, the weakening credit profile of the banking sector -- implying a growing potential need for support -- coupled with the financial challenges faced by the government, may introduce some constraints in the ability of the country to provide broad systemic support to its banking system. Greek banks currently benefit from an average two-notch rating uplift due to imputed systemic support. A lowering of the systemic support anchor could have an impact on the
supported ratings of the above-mentioned five banks.
RATING IMPACT ON AFFECTED BANKS
The specific ratings affected by today΄s rating action are as follows:
National Bank of Greece
All ratings assigned to National Bank of Greece and its funding subsidiaries (NBG Finance plc and National Bank of Greece Funding Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade, including the C BFSR, the A1 deposit and senior debt ratings, the A2 subordinated debt ratings, and the Baa3 hybrid debt (Tier 1) instruments. The Prime-1 short term rating assigned to the bank is not included in the review for downgrade and is being maintained in view of the bank΄s strong domestic
funding position.
EFG Eurobank Ergasias SA
All ratings of EFG Eurobank Ergasias and of its funding subsidiaries (EFG Hellas plc, EFG Hellas (Cayman Islands) Limited, and EFG Hellas Funding Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade, including its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Alpha Bank AE
All ratings of Alpha Bank -- with the exception of government-guaranteed senior debt ratings which retain their A2 negative outlook rating – and of its funding subsidiaries (Alpha Credit Group plc, Alpha Group Jersey Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Piraeus Bank SA
All ratings of Piraeus Bank and of its funding subsidiaries (Piraeus Group Finance plc and Piraeus Group Capital Limited) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its C- BFSR, A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings, A3 subordinated debt ratings, and Ba1 hybrid debt instruments.
Emporiki Bank of Greece SA
The D BFSR is not affected by today΄s rating action and retains a negative outlook.
All other ratings of Emporiki Bank and of its funding subsidiary (Emporiki Group Finance plc) have been placed on review for possible downgrade. This includes its A2/Prime-1 deposit and senior debt ratings and A3 subordinated debt ratings. Although a reassessment of the country΄s ability to support the banking system could lead to some adjustment to this bank΄s ratings, Moody΄s notes that Emporiki΄s ratings will continue to benefit from significant uplift as a result of Parental support. The bank is a subsidiary of Credit Agricole SA (CASA). In case of need, Moody΄s believe that there is a very high probability that CASA would provide extraordinary support to Emporiki Bank.
FOUR OTHER RATED BANKS UNAFFECTED
The ratings of the other four Greek banks rated by Moody΄s namely, Agricultural Bank of Greece ( Baa1/Prime-2), Attica Bank (Ba1/Not-Prime), General Bank of Greece (Baa1/Prime-2) and Marfin Egnatia Bank (Baa1/Prime-2) are not affected by today΄s announcement. Moody΄s notes that the weak stand-alone ratings (BFSRs) for these four banks already capture the heightened level of risks under its main scenario. Furthermore, their supported ratings would not be affected by a reassessment of the country΄s ability to support its banking system. In the case of General Bank of Greece and Marfin Egnatia Bank, the deposit ratings also confer elements of stability as a result of our imbedded assumptions regarding the likelihood of extraordinary support from their foreign parents. Marfin Egnatia Bank΄s deposit ratings are expected to converge with those of its parent bank΄s -- Marfin Popular Bank Public Company Ltd -- once the absorption process, currently underway, is completed.
http://english.capital.gr/news.asp?id=919300
Omero
Forumer storico
Il Negus-pensiero è quello di diversificare tra i vari emittenti mettendoci non più del 3% del portafoglio su ognuno.
Caligola ha una sessantina di emissioni, quindi "sta in una botte de fero"
YouTube - Sta in una botte di ferro!!
diversificare tra titoli dellos tesso settore non è proprio "diversificare",
il Negus pensiero prevede che le perpetual siano una quota massima del 25% del portafoglio, proprio perchè alla fine per quanto ci si possa sbizzarrire fra paese ed emittente sono tutte banche ed assicurazioni (poche). Anche se i titoli bancari sono così sottovalutati causa crisi (che finirà) che in fondo il pericolo per un acssettista è ridimensionato proprio dalla sottovalutazione in ottica long.
La vera diversificazione è quella di acquistare perpetue di emittenti di settori diversi (industriali, medie, ecc) ma dal basso della mia esperienza mi sembra che il mondo delle perpetual sia in modo preponderante fatto da banche.
Quindi, per un cassettista, un portafolgio di sole perpetual per diversificato che sia è sempre molto poco diversificato.
Se uno fa trading allora cambia tutto è sufficiente avere un titolo che "respira", i perpetual hanno il vantaggio di muoversi e di amturare cedole.
Forse il modo miglior eper diversificare avendo molte perpetue bancarie è quello di acquistare azioni di settori industriali diversi.
quantotanto
Forumer attivo
Condivido tutto, dalla prima all'ultima riga.
A dir la verità il mio voleva essere un intervento ironico, ma sono giustissime le tue osservazioni
nik.sala
Money Never Sleeps
Ma potete operare su tutto, anceh sulle obbligazioni prima di un anno?
Mi fai un esempio di titolo che su IW non è liquido mentre da voi si?
grazie
ironblade79
per bond prima di un anno nada
esempio : antonveneta 115
discipline
Guest
Moody's Cuts Deutsche Bank Rating Two Notches
Moody's Investors Service gave a two-notch downgrade to Deutsche Bank AG because of worries about earnings volatility and a delay to its acquisition of Deutsche Postbank AG.
Last month, Deutsche Bank reported it swung to a fourth-quarter net profit, aided by a tax break, and said its strong 2009 performance in corporate and investment banking helped lift its capital base to record-high levels.
But Moody's said Thursday that a lack of transparency regarding the bank's capital-market activities make its exposure to risk uncertain. That, in turn, raises worries about volatile earnings. In addition, Deutsche Bank's other businesses, which had been expected to anchor its earnings, have shown more volatility than Moody's expected.
Moody's said Deutsche Bank has become more cautious over the timing and extent of its takeover of Deutsche Postbank in light of Postbank's weaknesses linked to structured assets and commercial real estate. Deutsche Postbank had been expected to give Deutsche Bank a higher proportion of stable earnings and additional retail deposits, which would strengthen its funding profile.
The ratings company said Deutsche Bank's new rating of Aa3, three steps below Aaa, its highest, "is well positioned given Deutsche Bank's strong franchise, market position and resilience against any further transition risk in its ratings." The outlook is now stable.
Moody's Investors Service gave a two-notch downgrade to Deutsche Bank AG because of worries about earnings volatility and a delay to its acquisition of Deutsche Postbank AG.
Last month, Deutsche Bank reported it swung to a fourth-quarter net profit, aided by a tax break, and said its strong 2009 performance in corporate and investment banking helped lift its capital base to record-high levels.
But Moody's said Thursday that a lack of transparency regarding the bank's capital-market activities make its exposure to risk uncertain. That, in turn, raises worries about volatile earnings. In addition, Deutsche Bank's other businesses, which had been expected to anchor its earnings, have shown more volatility than Moody's expected.
Moody's said Deutsche Bank has become more cautious over the timing and extent of its takeover of Deutsche Postbank in light of Postbank's weaknesses linked to structured assets and commercial real estate. Deutsche Postbank had been expected to give Deutsche Bank a higher proportion of stable earnings and additional retail deposits, which would strengthen its funding profile.
The ratings company said Deutsche Bank's new rating of Aa3, three steps below Aaa, its highest, "is well positioned given Deutsche Bank's strong franchise, market position and resilience against any further transition risk in its ratings." The outlook is now stable.
Richard Fuld
lehman's ceo !
e quale sarebbe la tua meravigliosa banca fisica?
Richard Fuld
lehman's ceo !
XS0372143296
perpetual raffeisen.......possibile che quota sotto i 40? qualcuno che ha iw puo' controllare?
perpetual raffeisen.......possibile che quota sotto i 40? qualcuno che ha iw puo' controllare?
- Stato