2005: Il ritorno dei Bund/Bonds viventi ! vm 18 anni

US Treasuries lifted after GM, Ford cut to junk

(Adds GM, Ford downgrades, reaction, updates prices)

By Wayne Cole

NEW YORK, May 5 (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury debt prices popped higher on Thursday, gaining a flight-to-quality bid after Standard and Poor's downgraded the debt of both General Motors Corp. <GM.N> and Ford Motor Co. <F.N> to junk status.

The market had been braced for a GM cut for some time, and yet the speed of S&P's move came as a surprise to many. The move on Ford was even more of a jolt.

"This is big news," said David Ader, interest rate strategist at RBS Greenwich Capital. "People sort of thought it was inevitable, but it's still come sooner than many expected."

Traders said the downgrade hurt GM and Ford's mountain of corporate debt and in turn could widen credit spreads throughout the corporate market. Seeking safety, investors might shift some funds to Treasuries, they said.

The 10-year Treasury note <US10YT=RR> recouped early losses and swung 8/32 higher, lowering yields to 4.16 percent from 4.19 percent. The two-year note <US2YT=RR> jumped 4/32, taking yields to 3.55 percent from 3.62 percent.

"Treasuries have got a pop out of this. Credit and swap spreads are wider and stocks are off, so it makes perfect sense," said Ader.

Even interest rate futures <0#ED:> climbed as some speculated that the credit woes of the auto industry might provide a reason for the Federal Reserve to go more slowly in raising interest rates.

"I'm not sure it really rates as a life-changing event for the Fed; stocks would have to tank for the Fed to get worried," said Ader.

The S&P 500 <.SPX> dropped 0.58 percent following the downgrading, but was off its lows.

The five-year Treasury note <US5YT=RR> added 8/32, taking yields to 3.81 percent from 3.86 percent. The flight to quality bid also rescued the 30-year bond <US30YT=RR> from early losses, and it clawed back to steady at 4.59 percent.

Prices had been suffering as the likely resurrection of the 30-year bond forced some investors to cut back on suddenly unprofitable positions. It had been yielding 4.49 percent before the Treasury staggered the market on Wednesday by saying it might resume issuance of the maturity, which was abandoned in October 2001.

Economic data proved too mixed to offer direction. Annual productivity, or output per hour worked, ran at a higher-than-expected 2.6 percent last quarter, suggesting the economy had room to grow more quickly without generating great price pressures.

On the other hand, unit labor costs climbed to an annual 2.2 percent and some analysts feared that could lead to an upward revision to the first quarter's implicit price deflator for gross domestic product.

Rounding out the data, initial jobless claims rose to 333,000 last week from 322,000 the previous week and above forecasts of 325,000. The data were a modest blow to those hoping for a strong jobs revival in the April payrolls report, due on Friday.

"Taken collectively, the claims data is bond friendly while the unit labor costs is a solid bond negative, and the mix is sufficiently confusing to make most bond traders sit on their hands and avoid extending positions before the employment report tomorrow," said Alan Ruskin, research director at 4CAST.

Median forecasts are for a 170,000 rise in payrolls, though estimates range from as low as 140,000 to as high as 325,000.
 
ric inutile fare analisi, contano come il due a briscole, questi se ne inventano una al giorno, domani scommetto si rifanno due figure al ribasso e continuiamo così per tutto l'anno :eek: :rasta:[/quote]

Secondo me hai ragione tu, le analisi con sti pazzi ladrones servono a poco, certo che scendesse di 2 figure :p ... vedremo, io sono comunque scettico, ma è anche vero che il mio modo di pensare non è compatibile con i comportamenti del mercato :rolleyes: - scenderà quando lo vorranno far scendere, mettiamola così - buona serata, scappo ai fornelli :)
 
chiuso pure tutti i crude oil ... la cosa mi puzza assai e quindi ho preferito chiuderla quà.
Ora flat su tutto il settore energetico in attesa di sviluppi.

Alla fine della fiera sul settore energia mi sono portato a casa la bellezza di 104.727.42 € netti. :)


... se qualcuno ricorda tempo fà dissi che se arrivavo al target al settore energia gli avrei rubato 130.000 € .... bè alla fine pur non essendo arrivato al target dei prezzi sono distante solo di un 24% dal mio target sui profitti ipotizzato all'inizio... quindi tutto sommato mi posso ritenere più che soddisfatto !!!! :daisy: :daisy: :daisy:

.... e così Ditro dopo i cambi (con la sua calmetta) ha dato un'altra zampata delle sue !!! :D :D :D :D ;)



:king:



1115318465azz6.jpg
 
ric io parlo sempre per i bonds, sul Bund invece la storia è diversa e meno aleatoria , c'è gzibordi che oggi su cobraf ha scritto che presto lo yield scenderà al 3% , arruolato ad honorem tra i cosmici :lol:

provato a tenere uno short a 115 ma mi ha beccato ora il profit a 9375 , son stato un pirlun ingordo, dovevo uscire a 75 a prendermi il quartino
:rolleyes: autoprrrr
 
Fleursdumal ha scritto:
testyna di un ditrooo , dai una rotazione settoriale alle tue dragate e fai piover danaro sui bonds :lol: :D :babbo:


... tempo al tempo Giovà .... vedrai che quando sarà il suo momento pioveranno dineri a catinelle pure sui bonds. ;)


.... nel frattempo muy muy paxiensa. :) :smokin:
 
Giorno bbbanda ... altro giorno di lotta dura senza paura sui bonds .....


.... consoliamoci con la giovanna. :D :-D :smile:


111535564320050501ft_big.jpg
 
Giorno ... io intanto lo segnalo, il cacao non ha cattivi fondamentali, tuttavia è sotto pressione dai fondi e dalla stagionalità .... io comunque a questi prezzi comincierei ad accumulare.

1115356284azz5.jpg


Per il breve scadenza luglio 2005 ... per il medio pur pagando un pò di carry si può iniziare a fare scala sul dicembre.

1115356309azz6.jpg
 
Buongiorno a tutti,
ciao Alpino mattiniero
livelli sul bund
r3 121.40
r2 121.13
r1 121.04
pivot 120.86
s1 120.77
s2 120.59
s3 120.32

Vado a fare colazione :)
 
Traders Predict 176,500 U.S. Jobs Gain, Economists Say 174,000 May 6 (Bloomberg) -- Some of the biggest traders of U.S. Treasuries are betting that a government report today will show more job growth than economists are forecasting. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Deutsche Bank AG since 2002 have offered a marketplace for two hours each month where traders and investors can place bets on the Labor Department's U.S. jobs report. In the first so-called auction, held yesterday between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m. New York time, traders predicted U.S. payrolls in April increased by 176,500, or 2,500 more than the consensus of 80 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The results are significant because they offer hedge fund managers, traders and bankers a way to make money on their forecasts or hedge against market losses. The second auction is today at 7 a.m. ``A lot of time I have an opinion on payroll, and this is the cleanest way to bet on the economic outcome,'' said Irene Tse, head of government bond trading at Goldman Sachs in New York and an auction participant. ``I don't usually waste any time on anything that is not going to help me to either put on a bet or hedge up some of my portfolio risk.'' Over the past 16 months, yields on 10-year Treasury notes moved 12 basis points on average on the day the report was released. That range is almost triple the average daily. Participants submit predictions whether the jobs report will be above or below numbers that are pre-selected by Goldman and Deutsche Bank. The cost to select a number rises as more traders predict that the Labor Department report will beat it. Prices can be monitored on Goldman's Web site throughout the auctions. `Conventional Wisdom' Bets are typically for about $1 million, said William Cassano, New York-based vice president of economic derivatives at Goldman Sachs, the third-largest U.S. securities firm by capital. Cassano declined to say how much is bet each month. Auction results tend to be close to economists' forecasts ``because that's the conventional wisdom,'' Cassano said. More than 100 hedge fund managers, broker-dealers and bankers take part, triple the number a year ago, he said. Hedge funds lead trading in economic data because ``they are addicts and they have to trade,'' said Stan Jonas, managing director at derivatives broker Fimat USA in New York. Fimat is helping develop contracts tied to economic data for Hedge Street Inc., a San Mateo, California-based online futures market. Watching the Results The 110,000 jobs added in March fell short of the 213,000 median forecast from economists updated a day before the April 1 announcement. Prices at the day-before auction last month indicated traders expected 211,000 jobs. The actual report damped speculation of bigger interest-rate increases by the Federal Reserve, causing bonds to gain and the dollar to fall against the euro. An investor wanting to guard against the risk of losses from another smaller-than-expected increase in payrolls could buy an option that pays $1 for every job short of a 200,000 so-called strike price. The option last month would have cost $36,390, and the holder would have collected $90,000. ``Well-informed investors are placing bets, and it pays to watch them,'' said John Brady, an interest-rate futures broker at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange for Man Financial Inc., who doesn't trade in the auctions. The market ``helps clarify why interest rates may lean one way or another before the number.'' Quizzing Traders will ``quiz us: they'll ask, `why do you guys have 200,000' and `what's behind that','' said Edward McKelvey, senior U.S. economist at Goldman in New York. The ``auction becomes a weighted average of'' forecasts made by participants. McKelvey expects a gain of 200,000 jobs. Bloomberg updates forecasts from economists up until about 24 hours before the government report is released. Most are sent a week before the report and aren't revised. As of yesterday, 71 percent of economists' estimates included in the survey were received last month. Intrade, a Dublin-based online trading company that lists options tied to payrolls and other economic indicators, priced in a 60 percent chance that U.S. companies added more than 150,000 jobs this month, and a 45 percent chance that they added more than 200,000 jobs. Economists' Forecasts vs. Derivatives Auctions:

U.S. Payrolls

Payroll Month Economists Day- Same- Actual
before day
Auction Auction

April 2004 170,000 191,000 194,000 288,000
May 2004 225,000 255,000 260,000 248,000
June 2004 250,000 236,000 223,000 112,000
July 2004 240,000 239,000 238,000 32,000
Aug. 2004 150,000 166,000 152,000 144,000
Sept. 2004 143,000 137,000 109,000 96,000
Oct. 2004 175,000 189,000 167,000 337,000
Nov. 2004 200,000 225,000 219,000 112,000
Dec. 2004 175,000 178,000 166,000 157,000
Jan. 2005 200,000 225,000 192,000 146,000
Feb. 2005 225,000 235,000 243,000 262,000
March 2005 213,000 211,000 209,000 110,000

Sources: Goldman Sachs, Bloomberg, U.S. Labor Department.


To contact the reporter on this story:
Ann Saphir in Chicago at [email protected]

NEW YORK, May 5 (Reuters) - Hedgers and speculators on Thursday braced for a slightly stronger-than-expected April U.S. payrolls report, but a sizable minority readied for weaker-than-expected numbers, according to an economic derivative auction. The auction showed an implied market forecast of a 178,470 increase in U.S. payrolls outside of the agricultural sector, up from a 110,000 increase in March, and a touch above the median forecast of 170,000 by economists in a Reuters poll. But 18.8 percent of participants in the auction, weighted by the size of their positions, were ready for a payroll increase somewhere between 100,000 and 125,000. Bracing for a weaker-than-expected report makes sense after reports from the Institute for Supply Management earlier this week reported that employment growth slowed in April in both the manufacturing and services sectors. The U.S. Labor Department will release payroll numbers on Friday at 8:30 a.m. EDT (1330 GMT). The second of two April payrolls economic derivatives auction will take place earlier on Friday. Economic derivatives, offered by Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and interdealer broker ICAP, have a good history of showing how markets are positioned ahead of important economic figures, compared with the forecasts of economists.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Alto