Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
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PASTELLETTO
Guest
EU may concede formal Greek default is only solution - New Model Adviser Edition - Citywire
Stanno portando la EU/Grecia esattamente dove vogliono loro.
Indipendentemente da quello che la UE faccia, i grossi hanno scommesso su un qualche tipo di default e non la faranno finita finchè non avranno quello che vogliono.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Btp, spread su Bund a 260 pb, paura per contagio Italia
lunedì 11 luglio 2011 09:13
MILANO, 11 luglio (Reuters) - Nuova impennata questa mattina per lo spread Btp-Bund, che nelle prime contrattazioni della seduta tocca nuovi record, a riflesso delle forte tensione sul debito italiano, per i timori di un contagio verso il paese della crisi finanziaria europea.
Alle 9,00, il differenziale di rendimento tra Btp e Bund decennali, su piattaforma Tradeweb IT10YT=TWEB DE10YT=TWEB, quota in area 259 punti base, con un picco a quota 260,3 pb nei minuti immeidatamente precedenti.
"È la conseguenza delle notizie del weekend, con l'Ue che continua a non decidere sul salvataggio delle Grecia e l'ammissione che i fondi d'emergenza potrebbero essere ora utilizzati anche per l'Italia" commenta un trader da Milano. "Se prima il coinvolgimernto dell'Italia nella crisi finanziaria era una paura, ora è praticamente una certezza".
Venerdì scorso lo spread era salito fino ad un picco di 248 punti base, con una chiusura a 245, salvo poi superare di slancio quota 250 questa mattina poco dopo le 8,30 quando tuttavia gli scambi sul mercato europeo erano ancora piuttosto sottili.
lunedì 11 luglio 2011 09:13
MILANO, 11 luglio (Reuters) - Nuova impennata questa mattina per lo spread Btp-Bund, che nelle prime contrattazioni della seduta tocca nuovi record, a riflesso delle forte tensione sul debito italiano, per i timori di un contagio verso il paese della crisi finanziaria europea.
Alle 9,00, il differenziale di rendimento tra Btp e Bund decennali, su piattaforma Tradeweb IT10YT=TWEB DE10YT=TWEB, quota in area 259 punti base, con un picco a quota 260,3 pb nei minuti immeidatamente precedenti.
"È la conseguenza delle notizie del weekend, con l'Ue che continua a non decidere sul salvataggio delle Grecia e l'ammissione che i fondi d'emergenza potrebbero essere ora utilizzati anche per l'Italia" commenta un trader da Milano. "Se prima il coinvolgimernto dell'Italia nella crisi finanziaria era una paura, ora è praticamente una certezza".
Venerdì scorso lo spread era salito fino ad un picco di 248 punti base, con una chiusura a 245, salvo poi superare di slancio quota 250 questa mattina poco dopo le 8,30 quando tuttavia gli scambi sul mercato europeo erano ancora piuttosto sottili.
Comandante Gerard
Forumer storico
Ma "loro" chi?
I "grossi" chi?
Nell'articolo è scritto quello che sta nei numeri della conclamata insolvenza greca. Anche la UE lo sa e non da ora, ma si è mossa come si è mossa...
La grecia si può salvare, come ho scritto più e più volte solo se qualcun'altro gli paga i debiti a fondo perduto.
Altrimenti è solo un comprare tempo, come è stato fatto finora e anche maldestramente. Il che equivale ad averlo perso.
La si può girare e rigirare come si vuole ma, purtroppo, è così.
Punto.
tommy271
Forumer storico
EURO GOVT-Italian bonds tumble before emergency meeting, Bunds rally
LONDON, July 11 | Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:29am EDT
LONDON, July 11 (Reuters) - The 10-year yield spread between Italian and German debt widened to a fresh euro-era high on Monday as concerns over contagion ahead of an emergency European Union meeting prompted investors to sell Italian paper in favor of safe-haven German Bunds.
The Italian/German 10-year yield spread was 14 basis points wider at 258 bps, as BTP futures FBTPc1 tumbled more than 100 ticks to 103.29.
European officials will meet for an emergency meeting later this session -- talks organised after a sharp sell-off in Italian assets on Friday increased fears that it could be the next victim of a euro zone debt crisis. Italy has the highest sovereign debt ratio relative to its economy in the euro zone after Greece.
Paper from Spain also came under pressure, pushing the Spanish/German 10-year yield spreads 15 basis points wider to 300 basis points.
German Bund futures FGBLc1 meanwhile rallied over 50 ticks to 127.99.
LONDON, July 11 | Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:29am EDT
LONDON, July 11 (Reuters) - The 10-year yield spread between Italian and German debt widened to a fresh euro-era high on Monday as concerns over contagion ahead of an emergency European Union meeting prompted investors to sell Italian paper in favor of safe-haven German Bunds.
The Italian/German 10-year yield spread was 14 basis points wider at 258 bps, as BTP futures FBTPc1 tumbled more than 100 ticks to 103.29.
European officials will meet for an emergency meeting later this session -- talks organised after a sharp sell-off in Italian assets on Friday increased fears that it could be the next victim of a euro zone debt crisis. Italy has the highest sovereign debt ratio relative to its economy in the euro zone after Greece.
Paper from Spain also came under pressure, pushing the Spanish/German 10-year yield spreads 15 basis points wider to 300 basis points.
German Bund futures FGBLc1 meanwhile rallied over 50 ticks to 127.99.
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Loro sono i fondi di investimento. Sai bene cosa comprano e come funzionano, sono loro che decidono quale paese vive e quale muore, indipendentemente dall'economia fallace o meno.
Che la Grecia sia insolvente e l'Italia pure non ci sono dubbi.
La speculazione è un'altra cosa.
tommy271
Forumer storico
EU finance chiefs meet on Greece, minds focused by Italy
Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:56am EDT
* Top EU officials hold urgent debt crisis talks
* ECB's Trichet, Eurogroup's Juncker to join Monday meeting
* Concern grows over 2nd Greek bailout, threat to Italy
* Getting private sector role in Greece may require default
By Luke Baker
BRUSSELS, July 11 (Reuters) - The European Union's top finance officials hold critical talks on Greece and the worsening situation in Italy on Monday, with concern about the risk of further sovereign debt contagion acute.
Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European Council, will meet European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and Jean-Claude Juncker, the chairman of the Eurogroup, for talks in Brussels around midday (1000 GMT), ahead of a meeting of the 17 euro zone finance ministers later on Monday.
Van Rompuy's spokesman described the gathering, which also includes European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and the EU's economic and monetary affairs commissioner, Olli Rehn, as a "coordination, not a crisis meeting", and said Italy would not be on the agenda.
However, senior EU sources said it would be impossible not to discuss the situation in Italy, the euro zone's third largest economy, following a large sell-off in Italian assets that the Italian media have dubbed "black Friday".
Shares in Italy's biggest bank, Unicredit Spa , gyrated wildly on Monday after losing 7.9 percent on Friday, partly because of worries about the results of stress tests of the health of European banks that will be released on July 15. Other banks stocks also fell heavily.
The sell-off has increased fears that Italy, with the highest sovereign debt ratio relative to GDP in the euro zone after Greece, could be next to suffer in the crisis. If that came to pass, the euro zone's existing rescue mechanism, the EFSF, would have insufficient funds to help.
The 10-year yield spread between Italian and German debt widened to a fresh euro-era high of 258 basis points on Monday and bond yields neared the 5.5-5.7 percent area which some bankers think could start putting heavy pressure on Italy's finances.
The market pressure is due partly to Italy's high sovereign debt and sluggish economy, but also due to concern that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi may be trying to push out his long-time finance minister, Giulio Tremonti, who has promoted deep spending cuts to control the budget deficit.
"We can't go on for many more days like Friday," a senior ECB official told Reuters. "We're very worried about Italy."
German newspaper Die Welt quoted an unnamed ECB source as saying the EFSF may have to be doubled in size to 1.5 trillion euros if it is to be capable of coming to the aid of Italy.
ACCEPTING DEFAULT?
Monday's gathering of euro zone finance ministers will focus on a second bailout package for Greece and the need to secure the private sector's involvement in the assistance programme, which is expected to total 110 billion euros.
Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and Finland are determined that banks, insurers and other private holders of Greek government bonds should bear some of the costs of helping Athens -- up to 30 billion euros of the total package.
But after more than two weeks of negotiations with bankers represented by the Institute of International Finance (IIF), a lobby group, there has been next to no progress on agreeing a formula acceptable to all sides.
Initially talks focused on a complex French plan for private creditors to roll over up their holdings of Greek debt, buying new bonds as their existing ones matured.
But as that plan has floundered, Berlin has revived a proposal to swap Greek bonds for longer-dated debt that would extend maturities by seven years. Proposals to buy back Greek bonds and retire them have also been floated.
However, both those plans would likely be regarded by ratings agencies as a default, or at best a selective default, which could have profound repercussions for global financial markets. The ECB has said it will not accept anything that is termed a default, a position Germany also maintains.
In a buy-back, the EFSF bailout fund might buy Greek bonds from the market, or the EFSF might lend Greece money to buy bonds. However, these schemes would require further changes to the EFSF's rules and would therefore have to go through national parliaments, officials say.
If euro zone finance ministers do back the idea of a buy-back or a debt swap in an effort to move ahead more rapidly with a second package for Greece, it would effectively mean condoning a default in order to achieve a writedown in the value of Greek debt and make its debt mountain more sustainable.
Senior euro zone officials worry that any further delay in putting together a second package -- which Greece wants by early September -- could further poison investors' confidence in weak economies around the region, prompting more contagion.
"We need to move on this in the next couple of weeks. It's not a case of waiting until late August or early September as Germany is saying. That's too late and markets will make us pay for it," a top euro zone official told Reuters on Saturday.
German officials insist they too want to put together the second Greek bailout as quickly as possible, but the private sector's contribution is proving to be a major sticking point.
Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:56am EDT
* Top EU officials hold urgent debt crisis talks
* ECB's Trichet, Eurogroup's Juncker to join Monday meeting
* Concern grows over 2nd Greek bailout, threat to Italy
* Getting private sector role in Greece may require default
By Luke Baker
BRUSSELS, July 11 (Reuters) - The European Union's top finance officials hold critical talks on Greece and the worsening situation in Italy on Monday, with concern about the risk of further sovereign debt contagion acute.
Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European Council, will meet European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and Jean-Claude Juncker, the chairman of the Eurogroup, for talks in Brussels around midday (1000 GMT), ahead of a meeting of the 17 euro zone finance ministers later on Monday.
Van Rompuy's spokesman described the gathering, which also includes European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and the EU's economic and monetary affairs commissioner, Olli Rehn, as a "coordination, not a crisis meeting", and said Italy would not be on the agenda.
However, senior EU sources said it would be impossible not to discuss the situation in Italy, the euro zone's third largest economy, following a large sell-off in Italian assets that the Italian media have dubbed "black Friday".
Shares in Italy's biggest bank, Unicredit Spa , gyrated wildly on Monday after losing 7.9 percent on Friday, partly because of worries about the results of stress tests of the health of European banks that will be released on July 15. Other banks stocks also fell heavily.
The sell-off has increased fears that Italy, with the highest sovereign debt ratio relative to GDP in the euro zone after Greece, could be next to suffer in the crisis. If that came to pass, the euro zone's existing rescue mechanism, the EFSF, would have insufficient funds to help.
The 10-year yield spread between Italian and German debt widened to a fresh euro-era high of 258 basis points on Monday and bond yields neared the 5.5-5.7 percent area which some bankers think could start putting heavy pressure on Italy's finances.
The market pressure is due partly to Italy's high sovereign debt and sluggish economy, but also due to concern that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi may be trying to push out his long-time finance minister, Giulio Tremonti, who has promoted deep spending cuts to control the budget deficit.
"We can't go on for many more days like Friday," a senior ECB official told Reuters. "We're very worried about Italy."
German newspaper Die Welt quoted an unnamed ECB source as saying the EFSF may have to be doubled in size to 1.5 trillion euros if it is to be capable of coming to the aid of Italy.
ACCEPTING DEFAULT?
Monday's gathering of euro zone finance ministers will focus on a second bailout package for Greece and the need to secure the private sector's involvement in the assistance programme, which is expected to total 110 billion euros.
Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and Finland are determined that banks, insurers and other private holders of Greek government bonds should bear some of the costs of helping Athens -- up to 30 billion euros of the total package.
But after more than two weeks of negotiations with bankers represented by the Institute of International Finance (IIF), a lobby group, there has been next to no progress on agreeing a formula acceptable to all sides.
Initially talks focused on a complex French plan for private creditors to roll over up their holdings of Greek debt, buying new bonds as their existing ones matured.
But as that plan has floundered, Berlin has revived a proposal to swap Greek bonds for longer-dated debt that would extend maturities by seven years. Proposals to buy back Greek bonds and retire them have also been floated.
However, both those plans would likely be regarded by ratings agencies as a default, or at best a selective default, which could have profound repercussions for global financial markets. The ECB has said it will not accept anything that is termed a default, a position Germany also maintains.
In a buy-back, the EFSF bailout fund might buy Greek bonds from the market, or the EFSF might lend Greece money to buy bonds. However, these schemes would require further changes to the EFSF's rules and would therefore have to go through national parliaments, officials say.
If euro zone finance ministers do back the idea of a buy-back or a debt swap in an effort to move ahead more rapidly with a second package for Greece, it would effectively mean condoning a default in order to achieve a writedown in the value of Greek debt and make its debt mountain more sustainable.
Senior euro zone officials worry that any further delay in putting together a second package -- which Greece wants by early September -- could further poison investors' confidence in weak economies around the region, prompting more contagion.
"We need to move on this in the next couple of weeks. It's not a case of waiting until late August or early September as Germany is saying. That's too late and markets will make us pay for it," a top euro zone official told Reuters on Saturday.
German officials insist they too want to put together the second Greek bailout as quickly as possible, but the private sector's contribution is proving to be a major sticking point.
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Comandante Gerard
Forumer storico
Mah, guarda, chiunque compra o vende qualcosa specula, perché pensa di guadagnarci.
Questa cosa è sempre esisitita ed è normale.
E qui siamo tutti, chi più chi meno, speculatori.
Che poi siamo arrivati a delle distorsioni mostruose, che ci siano gruppi o fondi più o meno grossi che possono a loro volta influenzare ed accentuare certi movimenti è vero, ma è un problema di sistema.
Un sistema finanziario globale che è marcio alla radice. Ma questo è un altro discorso.
Il default greco non è causato dagli speculatori, che ci speculano non per caso, ma perché sanno che hanno più che ottime probabilità di guadagnarci.
Se la Grecia avesse i conti e la credibilità germanici, ho qualche dubbio che uno speculatore agirebbe alla stessa maniera...
Ora nel mirino ci siamo anche noi: qualche ragione quindi ci sarà.
Non è una novità. Ci siamo già stati ciclicamente in passato e ne siamo usciti con orgoglio.
Ora la sfida è anche più difficile perché non c'è più la lira da svalutare.
Staremo a vedere stavolta se l'Italia e anche la UE esistono davvero o sono una bella favoletta di carta.
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