tommy271
Forumer storico
L'economia dell'Irlanda è senza dubbio più reattiva di quella greca.
Ma io non mi fido degli irlandesi
.
Ultima modifica:
Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
L'economia dell'Irlanda è senza dubbio più reattiva di quella greca.
Ma io non mi fido degli irlandesi
.
tommy271
Forumer storico
.
tommy271
Forumer storico
CRISI: Coustas (Danaos), in Grecia prosperano solo armatori (MF)
MILANO (MF-DJ)--"Il settore greco del trasporto marittimo non ha nulla a che vedere con lo Stato greco".
E' quanto sostiene John Coustas, a.d della societa' per il trasporto marittimo di container, Danaos Corportation.
Il rischio principale che corre la Grecia, spiega a MF, e' la fuga di cervelli, il pericolo che "tutte le persone valide, quelle che hanno qualcosa da offrire, stiano abbandonando il Paese o stiano seriamente pensando di farlo", sostiene Coustas.
"Quello che la gente desidera davvero e' di potere ancora vivere in questo Paese".
Al momento, la realizzazione di un simile desiderio e' tutt'altro che assicurata.
Solitamente si ritiene che il dramma della Grecia abbia avuto inizio con l'adesione all'euro. Il club dei Paesi a moneta forte ha permesso allo Stato greco di contrarre prestiti con tassi di interesse piu' adatti a Berlino che ad Atene e accumulare cosi' un debito che oggi e' pari al 155% del pil.
Coustas, tuttavia, ritiene che il male affondi le sue radici molto piu' indietro, nel 1974, quando i politici, nel rinnovato spirito democratico, iniziarono ad ampliare la struttura statale per "ampliare la propria influenza".
MILANO (MF-DJ)--"Il settore greco del trasporto marittimo non ha nulla a che vedere con lo Stato greco".
E' quanto sostiene John Coustas, a.d della societa' per il trasporto marittimo di container, Danaos Corportation.
Il rischio principale che corre la Grecia, spiega a MF, e' la fuga di cervelli, il pericolo che "tutte le persone valide, quelle che hanno qualcosa da offrire, stiano abbandonando il Paese o stiano seriamente pensando di farlo", sostiene Coustas.
"Quello che la gente desidera davvero e' di potere ancora vivere in questo Paese".
Al momento, la realizzazione di un simile desiderio e' tutt'altro che assicurata.
Solitamente si ritiene che il dramma della Grecia abbia avuto inizio con l'adesione all'euro. Il club dei Paesi a moneta forte ha permesso allo Stato greco di contrarre prestiti con tassi di interesse piu' adatti a Berlino che ad Atene e accumulare cosi' un debito che oggi e' pari al 155% del pil.
Coustas, tuttavia, ritiene che il male affondi le sue radici molto piu' indietro, nel 1974, quando i politici, nel rinnovato spirito democratico, iniziarono ad ampliare la struttura statale per "ampliare la propria influenza".
tommy271
Forumer storico
Euro zone makes fresh bid to tackle Greek crisis
By John O'Donnell and Sarah Marsh
BRUSSELS/BERLIN | Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:50am BST
BRUSSELS/BERLIN (Reuters) - Euro zone countries continued to grapple with the thorny issue of involving the private sector in tackling Greece's debt pile as they prepared for a meeting to decide support for the country next week.
"The principle of having a euro chiefs' meeting is accepted by the main players, including Germany," said one EU diplomat, adding that it was likely to happen next week despite earlier signals from Berlin that there was no rush to finalise a second package of aid.
First, however, countries have to agree how to involve private sector investors in tackling Greece's debt burden, a key demand of Germany before it signs off more support for Athens and a step the International Monetary Fund said on Wednesday must be taken.
"Comprehensive private sector involvement is appropriate, given the scale of financing needs and the desirability of burden sharing," the IMF said in its latest review of the debt-choked country.
"Greece's debt service capacity may also need to be bolstered by combining appropriate PSI and official support," IMF officials wrote, referring to private-sector involvement.
Ratings agency Fitch cited continued uncertainty about private-sector participation and foot-dragging on giving more aid to Greece, when it downgraded the country further into junk territory.
Euro zone leaders' agreement to meet followed warnings they needed to act quickly after markets were rattled by the failure of finance ministers to reach agreement earlier this week.
Italian central bank chief Mario Draghi, soon to take the helm of the European Central Bank, and Ireland's premier both said a definitive plan was needed and quickly -- echoing a strongly-worded attack from Greece's prime minister earlier in the week.
The spotlight was taken off the euro zone, at least temporarily, after the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank could resort to more monetary stimulus if a sluggish U.S. economy weakens further.
Ratings agency Fitch had also countered the bleak outlook in Europe following an earlier downgrade of Ireland to junk status by Moody's when it said Italy could keep its credit status by sticking to fiscal targets.
But many remained on edge after a market attack on Italy and concerns that it too could need assistance, something that would overwhelm the euro zone's existing rescue funds.
"Moody's problem is not with Ireland, Ireland's problem is with Europe," Prime Minister Enda Kenny told parliament, as the cost of insuring Irish debt climbed.
"There is no point in having a meeting that won't bring about a conclusion in a comprehensive sense to something that is not going to go away unless it is dealt with."
WRANGLING
Should the leaders meet, they will need to pin down how private owners of Greek government bonds can be persuaded to shoulder a portion of the cost of a new package for Greece, a key demand of Germany.
They will weigh up the potential impact on markets if securing such involvement is declared a debt default by ratings agencies, as expected.
But countries had appeared to be subsiding into a bout of internal wrangling and risk creating a no-win situation.
"Markets reacted very badly after euro zone finance ministers could not reach an agreement," an EU diplomat said, referring to a finance ministers' meeting on Monday. "If they cannot agree, we take the fight to the highest level."
Herman Van Rompuy, the presides over meetings of EU leaders, had originally informed ambassadors he wanted to hold a summit on Friday evening.
But Europe's biggest economic power, Germany, which one EU official said was angry about being "backed into a corner", was reluctant, pushing the date of the gathering into next week.
STRESS TESTS
Another concern of leaders are the results of stress tests of European banks.
That could have a further impact on Italy, where bank stocks and the bond market have been hit by growing concerns that the euro zone's third-largest economy could be next in line after Greece, Ireland and Portugal to suffer debt contagion.
Draghi said Italian banks would comfortably pass the tests but echoed Kenny's call for a comprehensive EU response to the spreading debt crisis.
"We have to recognise that management of the financial crisis has not gone smoothly with partial and temporary interventions," he said in a speech.
"We must now bring certainty to the process by which sovereign debt crises are managed, by clearly defining political objectives, the design of instruments and the amount of resources," he said.
There are two main proposals on the table for securing the private sector's involvement in reducing Greece's debt burden.
One would be to buy back Greek bonds at a discount. Another is to swap Greek debt for longer-dated securities with a lower coupon.
However, it remains unclear how a buy-back of Greek bonds would be financed. It could involve using the 440 billion euro (387 billion pound) European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF).
The ECB remains vehemently opposed to any Greek plan that ratings agencies would be likely to see as a default.
ECB policymaker Jens Weidmann said the EFSF should not be used to buy bonds in the secondary market and it would be unacceptable for the ECB to accept Greek debt as collateral if the country were in default.
"The money of the (EFSF) bailout should not be used for the purchase of government bonds in the secondary market," he told Die Zeit newspaper. "Containment of the crisis should not mean that we undermine our principles. We must draw a red line."
But Germany's finance ministry said funds from the euro zone's rescue mechanism could in theory be used by members of the bloc to buy back their own bonds, suggesting a shift in Berlin's stance.
***
Il punto attuale della discussione.
By John O'Donnell and Sarah Marsh
BRUSSELS/BERLIN | Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:50am BST
BRUSSELS/BERLIN (Reuters) - Euro zone countries continued to grapple with the thorny issue of involving the private sector in tackling Greece's debt pile as they prepared for a meeting to decide support for the country next week.
"The principle of having a euro chiefs' meeting is accepted by the main players, including Germany," said one EU diplomat, adding that it was likely to happen next week despite earlier signals from Berlin that there was no rush to finalise a second package of aid.
First, however, countries have to agree how to involve private sector investors in tackling Greece's debt burden, a key demand of Germany before it signs off more support for Athens and a step the International Monetary Fund said on Wednesday must be taken.
"Comprehensive private sector involvement is appropriate, given the scale of financing needs and the desirability of burden sharing," the IMF said in its latest review of the debt-choked country.
"Greece's debt service capacity may also need to be bolstered by combining appropriate PSI and official support," IMF officials wrote, referring to private-sector involvement.
Ratings agency Fitch cited continued uncertainty about private-sector participation and foot-dragging on giving more aid to Greece, when it downgraded the country further into junk territory.
Euro zone leaders' agreement to meet followed warnings they needed to act quickly after markets were rattled by the failure of finance ministers to reach agreement earlier this week.
Italian central bank chief Mario Draghi, soon to take the helm of the European Central Bank, and Ireland's premier both said a definitive plan was needed and quickly -- echoing a strongly-worded attack from Greece's prime minister earlier in the week.
The spotlight was taken off the euro zone, at least temporarily, after the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the central bank could resort to more monetary stimulus if a sluggish U.S. economy weakens further.
Ratings agency Fitch had also countered the bleak outlook in Europe following an earlier downgrade of Ireland to junk status by Moody's when it said Italy could keep its credit status by sticking to fiscal targets.
But many remained on edge after a market attack on Italy and concerns that it too could need assistance, something that would overwhelm the euro zone's existing rescue funds.
"Moody's problem is not with Ireland, Ireland's problem is with Europe," Prime Minister Enda Kenny told parliament, as the cost of insuring Irish debt climbed.
"There is no point in having a meeting that won't bring about a conclusion in a comprehensive sense to something that is not going to go away unless it is dealt with."
WRANGLING
Should the leaders meet, they will need to pin down how private owners of Greek government bonds can be persuaded to shoulder a portion of the cost of a new package for Greece, a key demand of Germany.
They will weigh up the potential impact on markets if securing such involvement is declared a debt default by ratings agencies, as expected.
But countries had appeared to be subsiding into a bout of internal wrangling and risk creating a no-win situation.
"Markets reacted very badly after euro zone finance ministers could not reach an agreement," an EU diplomat said, referring to a finance ministers' meeting on Monday. "If they cannot agree, we take the fight to the highest level."
Herman Van Rompuy, the presides over meetings of EU leaders, had originally informed ambassadors he wanted to hold a summit on Friday evening.
But Europe's biggest economic power, Germany, which one EU official said was angry about being "backed into a corner", was reluctant, pushing the date of the gathering into next week.
STRESS TESTS
Another concern of leaders are the results of stress tests of European banks.
That could have a further impact on Italy, where bank stocks and the bond market have been hit by growing concerns that the euro zone's third-largest economy could be next in line after Greece, Ireland and Portugal to suffer debt contagion.
Draghi said Italian banks would comfortably pass the tests but echoed Kenny's call for a comprehensive EU response to the spreading debt crisis.
"We have to recognise that management of the financial crisis has not gone smoothly with partial and temporary interventions," he said in a speech.
"We must now bring certainty to the process by which sovereign debt crises are managed, by clearly defining political objectives, the design of instruments and the amount of resources," he said.
There are two main proposals on the table for securing the private sector's involvement in reducing Greece's debt burden.
One would be to buy back Greek bonds at a discount. Another is to swap Greek debt for longer-dated securities with a lower coupon.
However, it remains unclear how a buy-back of Greek bonds would be financed. It could involve using the 440 billion euro (387 billion pound) European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF).
The ECB remains vehemently opposed to any Greek plan that ratings agencies would be likely to see as a default.
ECB policymaker Jens Weidmann said the EFSF should not be used to buy bonds in the secondary market and it would be unacceptable for the ECB to accept Greek debt as collateral if the country were in default.
"The money of the (EFSF) bailout should not be used for the purchase of government bonds in the secondary market," he told Die Zeit newspaper. "Containment of the crisis should not mean that we undermine our principles. We must draw a red line."
But Germany's finance ministry said funds from the euro zone's rescue mechanism could in theory be used by members of the bloc to buy back their own bonds, suggesting a shift in Berlin's stance.
***
Il punto attuale della discussione.
IL MARATONETA
Forumer storico
giub, ti spiace spiegare in che consiste la manovra di cui parli?
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Indipendentemente dalla scadenza, per lontana o vicina che sia, mi sa che sarà l'agosto più caldo della storia.
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Credo che si riferisca all'imposta di bollo, 628€ per depositi oltre 50.000€, mi pare visto ieri sera al TG ma sono sicuro che lo si può trovare su internet.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Ancora una situazione di stallo sulla Grecia mentre i possibili scenari di coinvolgimento per noi bondholder intravedono un haircut più o meno coercitivo.
La soluzione ragionevole e palese, sostenuta anche dai greci, consiste in un'operazione di buy-back resa possibile dalle quotazioni - ormai dimezzate - dei propri titoli di stato con il coinvolgimento dell'EFSF.
Chissà però dove sono finiti i 15 MLD in mano alle banche, forse qualcuno sta già comprando ...
Ieri anche Fitch ha allineato il rating a CCC come le altre due agenzie di rating, mentre il downgrade sull'Irlanda a "junk" non ha coinvolto l'area del Club Med.
Oggi l'attenzione è rivolta verso l'asta dei BTP in Italia, dopo la tregua che ha visto lo spread raggiungere vette impensate.
Intanto pare che il "famoso" vertice straordinario non si farà domani ma la prossima settimana. Una intesa per il coinvolgimento dei "privati" nel secondo pacchetto di aiuti alla Grecia non sono ancora definite.
Non ci resta che registrare gli spread in movimento:
Grecia 1427 pb. (1419)
Irlanda 1162 pb. (1098)
Portogallo 1006 pb. (1038)
Spagna 312 pb. (321)
Italia 285 pb. (292)
Belgio 152 pb. (157)
La soluzione ragionevole e palese, sostenuta anche dai greci, consiste in un'operazione di buy-back resa possibile dalle quotazioni - ormai dimezzate - dei propri titoli di stato con il coinvolgimento dell'EFSF.
Chissà però dove sono finiti i 15 MLD in mano alle banche, forse qualcuno sta già comprando ...
Ieri anche Fitch ha allineato il rating a CCC come le altre due agenzie di rating, mentre il downgrade sull'Irlanda a "junk" non ha coinvolto l'area del Club Med.
Oggi l'attenzione è rivolta verso l'asta dei BTP in Italia, dopo la tregua che ha visto lo spread raggiungere vette impensate.
Intanto pare che il "famoso" vertice straordinario non si farà domani ma la prossima settimana. Una intesa per il coinvolgimento dei "privati" nel secondo pacchetto di aiuti alla Grecia non sono ancora definite.
Non ci resta che registrare gli spread in movimento:
Grecia 1427 pb. (1419)
Irlanda 1162 pb. (1098)
Portogallo 1006 pb. (1038)
Spagna 312 pb. (321)
Italia 285 pb. (292)
Belgio 152 pb. (157)
tommy271
Forumer storico
Samaras draws line at default
ND leader clashes with Venizelos over next step for economy
The leader of the main conservative opposition New Democracy, Antonis Samaras, on Wednesday declared that his party opposed any kind of default, including selective default, the prospect of which Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos had sought to play down earlier in the week, provoking a sharp response from the latter, who said that opposition politicians should be supporting the government at this difficult time.
“The word default is banned from our dictionary,” Samaras told his party’s political committee. “Its mere utterance can have catastrophic consequences,” he added, noting that selective default had never occurred in another EU country.
“Social cohesion demands that we examine our next step, not that we adopt what appears to be the least damaging of options, but what might actually turn out to be the most damaging,” said Samaras, who reiterated his backing for a Eurobond.
The opposition leader’s comments provoked a sharp response from Venizelos, who suggested that Samaras was being petty.
“Word games and stating the obvious do not help us in any way,” the minister said in a written statement.
“Instead they are harmful, creating confusion and uncertainty without reason.”
Venizelos condemned Samaras for failing to “support the government in its efforts and to show a responsible and levelheaded approach on issues so as to benefit the country.”
The minister added that he hoped the opposition leader would change his stance “as soon as possible,” another appeal for the cross-party consensus that has eluded the government but which the country’s foreign creditors have called for to facilitate the implementation of a new raft of austerity measures.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 13, 2011 (22:45)
****
Politica interna.
ND leader clashes with Venizelos over next step for economy
“The word default is banned from our dictionary,” Samaras told his party’s political committee. “Its mere utterance can have catastrophic consequences,” he added, noting that selective default had never occurred in another EU country.
“Social cohesion demands that we examine our next step, not that we adopt what appears to be the least damaging of options, but what might actually turn out to be the most damaging,” said Samaras, who reiterated his backing for a Eurobond.
The opposition leader’s comments provoked a sharp response from Venizelos, who suggested that Samaras was being petty.
“Word games and stating the obvious do not help us in any way,” the minister said in a written statement.
“Instead they are harmful, creating confusion and uncertainty without reason.”
Venizelos condemned Samaras for failing to “support the government in its efforts and to show a responsible and levelheaded approach on issues so as to benefit the country.”
The minister added that he hoped the opposition leader would change his stance “as soon as possible,” another appeal for the cross-party consensus that has eluded the government but which the country’s foreign creditors have called for to facilitate the implementation of a new raft of austerity measures.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 13, 2011 (22:45)
****
Politica interna.
giub
New Membro
L'inkiapettata con beffa è che la base imponibile è il nominale a scadenza e non il valore di mercato. Per cui se hai uno zc o una obbligazione lunga paghi il doppio o il triplo rièsetto al vero valore dell'investimento. E dal 2013 saranno 1100euro----
Agevolazioni, tagli per 20 miliardi - Il Sole 24 ORE
- Stato
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