Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

[fidw99]

credo che debbano massimizzare 2 effetti:

incassare più utile possibile e risparmiare più interessi sulle emisisoni in circolazione...

nel primo caso conviene puntare sulle irs, nel secondo conviene puntare a quelle con cedolone...

io credo che al momento forse abbiamo più esigenza di fare utili per compensare le minus da immobiliare, non so se siano così lungimiranti da mettere in conto il risparmio da interessi che arriverà nei prossimi anni ricomprando i cedoloni... di solito questi super manager hanno la visione a breve

poi questi spagnoli li conosco poco, magari bsch e bbva sono più lungimiranti delle altre banche spagnole (e l'hanno dimostrato...)

 

[Zorba]

Vedremo.

Non era una sfida, ma solo un invito alla prudenza. un Irs a50 incomincia ad essere caruccio, se non viene preso in Opa.

 

[capt.harlock]

Non era una sfida, ma solo un invito alla prudenza. un Irs a50 incomincia ad essere caruccio, se non viene preso in Opa.

si potrebbe fare la prova del9
si chiama la sala operativa e si chiede di contattare santander come dealer per un acquisto di 500k di irs e vediamo che risponde

 

[Andre_Sant]

si potrebbe fare la prova del9
si chiama la sala operativa e si chiede di contattare santander come dealer per un acquisto di 500k di irs e vediamo che risponde

c'è un fattore in piu' da considerare in questo caso

ossia il fatto che ti scontri con i tuoi avversari (leggasi: gli altri offerenti..) dove vige il detto, se sono tanti, mors tua vita mea.. ma anche l'opposto ossia vita tua, mors mea

qualcuno ricorda se:
a) la opa di bbva di giugno che era anch'essa dutch, era dutch unmodified come questa? o se invece era una dutch classica?

b) la opa di bbva era sui senior, o era sulle sub e perpetue bbva?

grazie
ciao
Andrea

 

[Rottweiler]

Subordinato Delta Lloyd

L'ultimo nato tra i T2 assicurativi. L'isin è XS0821168423. Triste che paghino meno di Generali...

Delta Lloyd places subordinated notes
22 August 2012

Delta Lloyd Levensverzekering N.V. ("Delta Lloyd") successfully priced a new benchmark € 500 million Fixed to Floating Rate Subordinated Note transaction at a coupon of 9%. The notes have a final maturity of 2042, and can be redeemed at Delta Lloyd's option from 2022 onwards. The transaction was sold to institutional investors.

Delta Lloyd has placed the subordinated notes with a wide group of investors, with strong demand coming from the Benelux, Germany, the UK and also with interest coming from Asia. The term is 30 years, with the option to repay after 10 years (a 30 years non call 10 structure). The notes are compliant with the latest draft Solvency II requirements and qualify as Tier 2 capital for Delta Lloyd.

The notes also replace a subordinated note issue of € 400 million that Delta Lloyd privately placed in 2009. The transaction is in line with Delta Lloyd Group's aspiration to develop a broader investor base and thus assure good access to the capital market.

Standard & Poor's Ratings Services has assigned a BBB+ rating to the notes. Delta Lloyd has an A rating, with stable outlook.

Barclays Capital, Morgan Stanley and Rabobank International acted as Joint Lead Managers of the transaction, and ABN AMRO acted as a Co-Lead Manager.

Delta Lloyd Group CEO Niek Hoek commented: "The execution of this transaction especially during this quieter summer period highlights Delta Lloyd Group's access to capital markets, and investors' confidence in the credit story of the issuer. It is also an important step in furthering Delta Lloyd Group's relationships with fixed income investors."

Summary Terms:
Issuer: Delta Lloyd Levensverzekering N.V.
Issue Rating: BBB+ (S&P)
Issue size: € 500 million
Date of launch: 21 August 2012
Settlement date: 29 August 2012
Due date: 29 August 2042
First call date: 29 August 2022
Coupon: 9%
First Coupon Date: 29 August 2013
Issue price: 100%

For more information about this press release:
Media Relations (Martijn Donders) +31 (0)20 594 44 88
Investor Relations (Hans Duine) +31 (0)20 594 96 93

 

[bia06]

complimenti

devo farti i miei complimenti Top,

ancora una volta hai avuto la vista lunga.

complimenti anche a chi è dentro

creo que hay unos 6.000 mm€ circulación. Básicamente proponen quitarse un tercio. Lo cierto es que con cupones de un 8-9% en un santander cuesta desprenderse de ellas. Pero con el otoño que podemos tener puede ser una buena oportunidad de conseguir liquidez para nuevas oportunidades. claro que también están las Repsol calentitas...
Yo a priori no se que hacer pero en aproximadamente 85-87 me podría desprenderme de ellas. Y eso que las tengo por encima de 70.
Ahora que el movimiento del Santander es maestro considerando la nueva oferta de subordinadas al 4 y pico...
Saludos

yo por debajo de 80% no ofertaria en la subasta holandesa


Questo è quello che scrivono sulla fixed,ergo non regalatela

In questo forum il Santander si sottovaluta(a Parte il Negus),la verità è che è un colosso ramificato molto potente.Io lo conosco anche per vie non finanziarie ed è molto riconosciuto nel mondo.Scrivevo giorni fà che l'irs Rzb quotava 47 e quello Sant quotava nemmeno 42...ergo non stà ne in cielo ne in terra.
Essendo i 2 T1 emissioni abbastanza illiquide le quotazioni ne risentivano,ma questo non vuol dire nulla sull'emittente.


Isin Interessati

Santander Finance Preferred, S.A. Unipersonal Series 7 GBP 250,000,000.00 XS0307728146
Santander Finance Preferred, S.A. Unipersonal Series 3 EUR 200,000,000.00 XS0202774245
Santander Finance Preferred, S.A. Unipersonal Series 2 EUR 300,000,000.00 XS0202197694
Santander Finance Preferred, S.A. Unipersonal Series 9 EUR 125,700,000.00 XS0441528600
Santander Finance Preferred, S.A. Unipersonal Series 8 GBP 679,400,000.00 XS0441528949
Santander Central Hispano Financial Services, Ltd GBP 200,000,000.00 XS0131038522
Santander Perpetual, S.A. Unipersonal. Series 1 EUR 750,000,000.00 XS0206920141
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 13 EUR 1,500,000,000.00 XS0291652203
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 9 EUR 550,000,000.00 XS0261717416
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 10 GBP 300,000,000.00 XS0261787898
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 18 EUR 1,500,000,000.00 XS0327533617
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 19 GBP 800,000,000.00 XS0327310669
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 11 GBP 300,000,000.00 XS0284633327
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 5 EUR 500,000,000.00 XS0255291626
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 14 EUR 500,000,000.00 XS0301810262
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 23 EUR 449,250,000.00 XS0440402393
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 24 GBP 843,350,000.00 XS0440403797
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 16 EUR 102,000,000.00 XS0307566496
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 12 EUR 585,000,000.00 XS0285087192
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 15 EUR 114,000,000.00 XS0307473214
Santander Issuances, S.A. Unipersonal Series 17 EUR 25,000,000.00 XS0309495959

 

[Andre_Sant]

qualcuno ha i cds sub 5y (magari bid ask) di santander?
su http://www.mypf.it/cds nn ci sono (magari se avete voglia potete inserirli lì stabilmente..)
grazie mille fin da ora

ciao
Andrea

 

[innocentiproject]

qualcuno ha i cds sub 5y (magari bid ask) di santander?

grazie mille fin da ora

ciao
Andrea

se possibile aggiungerli anche su questo foglio
http://www.mypf.it/cds

 

[ferdo]

[SAN.MC] By Helene Durand LONDON, Aug 23 (IFR) - Spanish banking giant Banco Santander sent ripples through the bond market on Thursday after it announced it would buy back some of its subordinated and hybrid debt through an unmodified Dutch auction, just a day after it priced the first senior unsecured issue from a Spanish bank in six months. Though not unusual in the asset-backed market, where securities can be difficult to locate and bid/offer prices can be very wide, unmodified Dutch auctions, which involve bondholders telling the bank what they own and where they want to sell the bonds back rather than the bank setting a minimum buy-back price, have never been used for a bank capital tender. Santander is no stranger to controversy when it comes to liability management [IDL5E7MG3I0]. An offer to exchange some subordinated debt into new senior notes in November last year caused fury among investors as they faced an unpalatable choice of either crystallising mark-to-market losses if they took part or being stuck with illiquid bonds unlikely to be called on the scheduled call date if they did not. Less than a quarter of the bonds were brought by investors to the tender, creating very little capital for the bank. Wednesday's announcement caused upset among investors who criticised Santander for its aggressive methods. "Santander is never far away from trying to annoy bondholders and people have come to expect this kind of behaviour from them," said a senior analyst at a large fund manager. "Because they've not given a price, as an investor, you have to open up your book to Santander and Deutsche Bank of all banks." Another questioned what Santander was trying to achieve. "This is a much better deal for the bank than investors in terms of information gathering and Santander has the power to do whatever it wants," the investor said. "It can spend up to EUR2bn or nothing at all if it doesn't want to, there is no waterfall so you don't know who will be prioritised and it's difficult to quantify how much capital this is actually going to create." Analysts were equally scathing on the method, saying it gave Santander all the power and optionality. "There is no obligation for Santander to spend even one cent of the EUR2bn, you really are opening your kimono and just hoping it's not a transvestite in your bathroom," Tom Jenkins, an analyst at Jefferies wrote in a note to clients today. A senior liability management banker said that if the aim of the trade was to create capital for the bank, then it was not the right approach because investors might be reluctant to participate. "If it's about being opportunistic and being perceived as the bid, then it's fine," he said. Santander is targeting an outstanding EUR7.5bn equivalent, including five Tier 1, two Upper Tier Two and fourteen Lower Tier 2 denominated in euros and sterling. It will spend a maximum of EUR2bn. On average, the securities had been trading at 79% pf par, some of which had been targeted in previous liability management. FAUSTIAN CHOICE Deutsche Bank, which is handling the trade alongside Santander however defended the offer. "As part of active balance sheet management, Santander is providing investors with a liquidity event on a pool of subordinated securities and it's for investors to decide whether they want to participate or not, and at what price, it's an entirely voluntary exercise," said Duane Hebert, head of EMEA liability management at Deutsche Bank. He added that market conditions are also a driver behind the method chosen by the issuer. "Spanish hybrids have been very volatile and it is quite challenging to put out a fixed tender price with a premium given that a lot of movement can occur over the execution period of 6 business days," he said. "Putting out a firm level can be risky and this structure protects the issuer as well
----------------------------------------
Quelli di DB sono proprio t.d.c.

cmq penso che privilegeranno i T1 nel riparto

 

[Andre_Sant]

nn ci sarà alcun riparto.. le emissioni lt2 sn già stata opSate a fine 2011

le tier1 sn state opate in anni precedenti

i flottanti che restano son decisamente esigui tali da nn generare problemi di riparto

la questione sarà secondo me solo relativa al prezzo max che santander andrà a pagare x ogni emissione, è qui che si gioca la partita

ma 2 miliardi di euro sn decisamente sufficienti