Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 3

[warren baffo]

Perpetual floater assicurativo piu' cheap

Vi ricordate ageas?

ho trovato un tier1 convertibile di ageas (ex fortis) ed ora la piu grande assicurazione belga con solvency oltre 200%

XS0147484074 paga euribor + 1,35% e le ho comprate adesso a 57,75

UNICO PROBLEMA LOTTO MINIMO 250K NOM

parlato con ir che mi ha spiegato un po di il funzionamento ed il fatto che la conversione e' automatica solo se il prezzo del titolo e' superiore allo strike price del bond

MAGARI PERCHE IL PERP VARREBBE 100

A couple of remarks, that should make things clearer:
It was no typo: conversion level after the reversed stock split stands at EUR 315,00, so the conversion level is out out the money ...
There is no forced conversion other than when the EUR 472,50 is reached. However, if we do not declare a dividend or if we declare a dividend that matches a yield below 0,5%, we mandatorily stop paying the coupon in cash and move to ACSM settlement. Obviously, one can raise some questions on the ability on the long run to serve a coupon via ACSM if there are reasons to cancel the dividend payment.
Before we issued the FRESH instrument in 2002, we started with issuing shares, so these shares alreay exist and are already issued, explaining the beneficial regulatory treatment.
Immediately after issuing the shares, we issued the EUR 1,25 billion FRESH instrument, which is a convertible at a shareprice of EUR 31,50 before the reversed stock split; after the reversed stock split the conversion price is EUR 315,-
To hedge the potential conversion of the FRESH, we bought back a sufficient number of already issued shares, that thus became treasury shares, to be able to deliver these when bondholders would opt for conversion. Taking into account the reversed stock split of the Ageas share, we now hold 3.968.254 shares for the potential conversion, which are pledged in favor of the FRESH bondholders.
The FRESH is a mandatory convertible, but in stead of including an often observed fixed conversion period of 3 years in the T&C, we included a condition that the bond mandatorily converts when the share reaches 150% of the conversion price, so at a level of EUR 472,50
Contrary to the believes in 2002, we nowadays know what happened to Fortis, and the mandatory conversion is very far out of the money, so effectively the instruments trades like a treu perpetual, although from a pure legal point of view the instrument is undated (as it depends on the moment the trigger moment is reached)
The equity credit for this instrument is received at the level of Ageas Insurance International, belonging to what we call the General Account, so it boosts the consolidated solvency level, but not the solvency of one of our operating companies
Co-obligors were the Luxembourg issuing vehicle Fortfinlux, together with the former dual listed Topco's of Fortis: Fortis SA/NV and Fortis N.V. ; we rebranded Fortis into Ageas, so the issuing entity is now called Ageasfinlux, while we also moved from a dual listing to a single listing via a merger of the two Topco's, so the left over co-obligor is Ageas SA/NV.
Hope this clarifies the structure.

ecco il messaggio...2013
il blu dovrebbe essere IR di ageas....

quanto vale cat secondo te?

 

[jjletho]

Essendo questo un FRESH qual e' il rapporto di conversione finale? Questi strumenti si valutano attualizzando i flussi di cassi per la durata del bond + valore azionario alla maturity.

a mia conoscenza, questa e' una perpetual, non c'e' quindi un rimborso finale (a meno che l'azione sottostante sia moltiplicata per 20 e il FRESH diventi convertibile)

 

[Cat XL]

ecco il messaggio...2013
il blu dovrebbe essere IR di ageas....

quanto vale cat secondo te?

Salve

La valutazione sarebbe semplicemente quella di un convertible che credo che si trovi deep out of the money.

Sostanzialmente flusso cedolare fino alla scadenza (c'e' una scadenza????) + valore azioni a scadenza. Queste ultime possono essere valutate oggi.

Tuttavia mi dici che la conversione e' automatica solo se il prezzo e' in the money? Quindi non e' mandatory ("convertendo") propriamente detto e non c'e' scadenza?

Per esempio quelli di UniCredit e MPS scadono nel 2050 e 2099. O viceversa. Percui c'e' una maturity.

Il flusso cedolare e' il problema e si dovrebbe avere Bloomberg per farlo.

Dovrei saperne un po piu.

 

[warren baffo]

qui il documento da leggere bene, perchè c'è anche una "consent solicitation"

 

[waltermasoni]

Fitch Rates Bayer's New Hybrids 'BBB-'
20 NOV 2019 08:40 AM ET

• 
  

Fitch Ratings - Milan - 20 November 2019:

Fitch Ratings has assigned Bayer AG's (BBB+/Negative) EUR1 billion and EUR750 million subordinated resettable fixed rate notes due November 2079 final ratings of 'BBB-'.

The hybrid instruments are deeply subordinated, rank pari passu to existing hybrid instruments and rank senior only to Bayer's share capital, while coupon payments can be deferred at the discretion of the issuer. As a result, the 'BBB-' rating is two notches below Bayer's 'BBB+' Issuer Default Rating (IDR), reflecting the notes' higher loss severity and risk of non-performance relative to senior obligations.

The securities qualify for 50% equity credit as they meet Fitch's criteria with regard to subordination, remaining effective maturity of more than five years, full discretion to defer coupons for at least five years and limited events of default. Deferrals of coupon payments are cumulative and there are no look-back provisions.

The EUR1 billion hybrid instrument is callable in 5.25 years (February 2025) and has a coupon that will be reset at five-year intervals commencing in 5.5 years (first reset date on May 2025). There will be a coupon step-up of 25bp in 10.5 years and an additional step-up of 75bp in 25.5 years.

The EUR750 million hybrid instrument is callable in 7.75 years (August 2027) and has a coupon that will be reset at five-year intervals after commencing in eight years (first reset date on November 2027). There will be a coupon step-up of 25bp in 13 years and an additional step-up of 75bp in 28 years.

The hybrid instruments have been issued in the context of liability management in order to refinance the EUR1.75 billion hybrid bond with its first call date in July 2020. Bayer has simultaneously launched a tender offer for this bond, achieving over 80% acceptance to date.

 

[waltermasoni]

Rating Action:

Moody’s assigns an A3(hyb) rating to CNP Assurances’ Tier 2 green bond
20 November 2019






Paris , November 20, 2019 – Moody's Investors Service has today assigned an A3(hyb) rating to the dated subordinated green notes due 2050 issued by CNP Assurances (CNP, rated A1 for insurance financial strength, stable outlook) under its €7 billion EMTN programme.


RATINGS RATIONALE


The A3(hyb) rating of the debt reflects (i) the ranking of the debt (subordinated), (ii) the mandatory coupon deferral mechanism (in case of breach of regulatory capital requirements) and the optional deferral mechanism, as well as (iii) the cumulative nature of deferred coupons, in case of deferral. The A3(hyb) rating is in line with Moody's standard notching practices for this type of instruments issued by operating companies.

The notes are intended to qualify as Tier 2 capital under Solvency II.

The new subordinated debt will rank pari passu with existing Tier 2 and Tier 3 subordinated debt issued by CNP but will rank senior to the restricted Tier 1 debt issued in 2018.

The notes contain a mandatory interest deferral trigger based upon breach of regulatory capital requirements of the issuer and/or the group. However, any deferred interest payment will constitute arrears of interest and remain due by CNP at a future date (cumulative coupon skip mechanism). CNP will also have full discretion to defer interests at any interest payment date, provided that no dividend has been paid or declared in the previous six months.

The breach of regulatory requirements triggering interest deferral relates to Solvency II requirements (Solvency Capital Requirements and Minimum Capital Requirements) as well as any future regulatory regime, including the regime which will apply to international active insurance groups and which is being developed by the international association of insurance supervisors.

This new debt qualifies as a green bond because CNP will use the proceeds of the issuance to finance and/or refinance projects identified as "Eligible Green Assets" in CNP's green bond framework.

Moody's estimates that the issuance will increase by around one percentage point the group's leverage (24.7% at year-end 2018), which however will remain within Moody's expectations for the rating level.

 

[Ventodivino]

Una domanda,
i prezzi esposti sulle borse tedesche denaro-lettera (quando ci sono prezzo e quantità) sono " indicativi" come quelli delle controparti OTC (che possono ritirarsi) o, come ad esempio il Lussemburgo,se si incrocia si viene applicati ?

Prego rispondere solo con matematica certezza .
Non "IMHO"
TKS.

 

[Cat XL]

Una domanda,
i prezzi esposti sulle borse tedesche denaro-lettera (quando ci sono prezzo e quantità) sono " indicativi" come quelli delle controparti OTC (che possono ritirarsi) o, come ad esempio il Lussemburgo,se si incrocia si viene applicati ?

Prego rispondere solo con matematica certezza .
Non "IMHO"
TKS.

Se conosci un po il tedesco la risposta e' qui con matematica certezza.

 

[jjletho]

Salve

La valutazione sarebbe semplicemente quella di un convertible che credo che si trovi deep out of the money.

Sostanzialmente flusso cedolare fino alla scadenza (c'e' una scadenza????) + valore azioni a scadenza. Queste ultime possono essere valutate oggi.

Tuttavia mi dici che la conversione e' automatica solo se il prezzo e' in the money? Quindi non e' mandatory ("convertendo") propriamente detto e non c'e' scadenza?

Per esempio quelli di UniCredit e MPS scadono nel 2050 e 2099. O viceversa. Percui c'e' una maturity.

Il flusso cedolare e' il problema e si dovrebbe avere Bloomberg per farlo.

Dovrei saperne un po piu.

Da Bloomberg
XS0147484074
Perpetual, no maturity date, forced conversion only above 150% of issuance, cioé non rilevante, l'azione deve decuplicare.

Issuer Information
Name AGEASFINLUX SA
Industry Life (BCLASS)
Convertible Information
Mkt of Issue Euro-Zone Hybrid
Country LU Currency EUR
Rank Jr Subordinated Series REGS
Conv Ratio 793.6508 Conv Price 315.0000
Stock Tkr AGS BB Stock Price 53.419998
Parity 16.9587 Premium 250.0203
Coupon 0.947000 Init Prem
Freq QUARTLY EURIBOR +135.0000


Conversion Information Calls and Puts
Conv Price (EUR) 315.0000 Next Call Date None
Conv Ratio 793.6508 Next Call Price None
Initial Premium None Next Put Date None
Convertible From 06/16/2002 Next Put Price None
Convertible Until Perpetual Soft Call Start Date 05/07/2009
Interest Accrual Date 05/07/2002 Soft Call Trigger 150%
Contingent Convertible No Provisional Price 472.500
Dividend Protection
Current Threshold None
Threshold Units None

Spero quanto sopra sia sufficente
Ogni indicazione di pricing da parte tua (e di altri) sara' molto apprezzata
Grazie!

 

[solovaloreaggiunto]

Floaters ancora in gran spolvero oggi...