Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1 (5 lettori)

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tommy271

Forumer storico
non capisco, ma possibile che la Merkel ed i suoi consiglieri economici possono essere così miopi?!?!
In verità mi sfugge ancora cosa chiede la Merkel esattamente.
La Grecia chiede aiuto al Fondo Europeo, e gli investitori privati sono i primi ad essere coivolti!?
Ovvio se c'è default, pace, è default; ma se default non c'è in quale punto gli investitori privati sono coinvolti?
E poi, come potrebbe una Grecia tornare a finanziarsi - perchè questa sarebbe l'unica soluzione a parte il default - entro il 2013 a tassi accettabili, se gli investitori privatisarebbero i primi ad essere esposti ad un "default/ristrutturazione controllato"?!?!
E' una questione di buon senso ...
Mi sfugge qualcosa nello scenario che si sta delineando.

La proposta Merkel avvantaggia gli Stati, a danno dei bondisti, per il semplice fatto che induce gli Stati a ristrutturare il debito garantendo però il successivo intervento del Fondo di Emergenza Europeo per assicurare la liquidità che verrebbe poi inevitabilmente a mancare per gli anni a venire.
 

METHOS

Forumer storico


Dunque come letto noi detentori di bond siamo parte del problema? Allora smettiamola di comprare debito, ecco la soluzione. Riamangono oro e beni immobiliari. Siccome i secondi sono tartassati e sempre più di difficile vendita in caso di realizzo meglio orientarsi sul primo.
Da parte mia sono incastrato sulla ggbei 2030 a 50 per cui penso che potrebbe essere il prezzo della ristrutturazione o giù di lì e quindi rimango lì. Ma lungi da me pensare di entrare sull'irlanda, portogallo e spagna. Paesi che fino a 12 mesi fa potevo benissimo comprare e portare a scadenza (quelli brevi). Oggi sono indeciso se liberarmi anche del nostro.
Ecco quello che stanno ottenendo. Una crisi di fiducia dove tra poco gli speculatori ci sguazzeranno.

Non siamo noi risparmiatori parte del problema, ma una classe politica sprecona e inetta.
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Torna a soffiare forte il vento di tempesta intorno ai periferici.
Ieri tra tassi visti in probabile innalzamento prima del previsto e speculazioni intorno alla "proposta" Markel, hanno fatto le spese tutti i membri il Club Med nel suo insieme.

In particolare la "proposta" Merkel agita i bondholder che si vedrebbero colpiti in via prioritaria nei propri diritti, consentendo ad uno Stato sovrano di accedere al Fondo di Emergenza Europeo solo dopo aver ristrutturato il proprio debito. Neanche il FMI era mai arrivato a tanto.

In Grecia la situazione è in tensione per via delle elezioni amministrative che si accavalla al dibattito sulle sorti economiche del paese. Non sfugge però il buon dato riguardante l'aumento delle entrate per l'IVA che testimonia una certa vitalità dell'economia. In mezzo a questo ci sono dichiarazioni avventate sul debito pubblico usato come clava nella lotta politica.

Peggiora la situazione in Irlanda, con spread a livelli storici sul Bund. Anglo Irish, prevedibilmente, trova difficoltà ad alienare gli asset iscritti a bilancio. La crisi dell'immobiliare in Irlanda e Inghilterra pesa molto e necessita di un "aggiornamento dei valori". La situazione andrà a pesare sui costi che l'Irlanda si troverà ad affrontare per salvare il proprio sistema bancario.

Buone notizie dal Portogallo, maggioranza e opposizione hanno trovato un accordo sulla legge di bilancio anti-deficit che dovrà essere approvata nei prossimi giorni dal Parlamento.
Nonostante questo l'aria "grama" dei periferici si abbatte sul paese lusitano spingendo lo spread verso i massimi.

Il vento lambisce Spagna e Italia che non possono fare altro che cedere posizioni.

Grecia 832 pb. (815)
Irlanda 475 pb. (448)
Portogallo 369 pb. (346)
Spagna 177 pb. (169)
Italia 143 pb. (139)
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Dunque come letto noi detentori di bond siamo parte del problema? Allora smettiamola di comprare debito, ecco la soluzione. Riamangono oro e beni immobiliari. Siccome i secondi sono tartassati e sempre più di difficile vendita in caso di realizzo meglio orientarsi sul primo.
Da parte mia sono incastrato sulla ggbei 2030 a 50 per cui penso che potrebbe essere il prezzo della ristrutturazione o giù di lì e quindi rimango lì. Ma lungi da me pensare di entrare sull'irlanda, portogallo e spagna. Paesi che fino a 12 mesi fa potevo benissimo comprare e portare a scadenza (quelli brevi). Oggi sono indeciso se liberarmi anche del nostro.
Ecco quello che stanno ottenendo. Una crisi di fiducia dove tra poco gli speculatori ci sguazzeranno.

Non siamo noi risparmiatori parte del problema, ma una classe politica sprecona e inetta.

Sui GGBei teniamo conto del calcolo dell'indicizzazione maturata. Credo non sia un problema azzerarla nel malaugurato caso di un haircut sui titoli. Sul 30 più bassa rispetto al 25.
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
ANALYSIS-Greek PM gambles with election threat

2010-11-02 07:10:18 GMT (Reuters)





* Papandreou says needs clear voter support for reforms
* Spreads, bank shares hit by election jitters
* Local elections take place on Nov. 7 and Nov. 14



By Ingrid Melander


ATHENS, Nov 2 (Reuters) - Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is making a risky play for support by threatening to call early general elections if disgruntled voters do not back his austerity policies in local polls this weekend.

Election talk has forced Greek bond spreads wider and bank shares lower with investors fretting over risks of instability as the country scrambles to meet a tough year-end deadline set by the EU and the IMF to slash its budget deficit.

Papandreou would likely lose his comfortable majority in a snap election, analysts say, and with major parties all down in opinion polls the most likely outcome would be a coalition or a slim majority, either of which would hurt the drive for reforms.

Polls have shown the ruling Socialists (PASOK) may lose the Nov. 7 and 14 local and regional vote in key areas including the capital as Greeks show their opposition to the tax hikes, spending cuts and pension freezes PASOK proposes.

"God forbid, the last thing we need is instability during this crisis," said Theodore Couloumbis, vice-chair of Greek think-tank ELIAMEP. "I hope Mr Papandreou is doing this for tactical purposes to help his cause in this coming (local) election and that it's not part of his strategy."

Greece has made progress cutting its deficit but tax collection still lags and risks remain over local authorities and hospital spending. Investors also question if Greece can sustain its programme in the face of a bleak economic outlook.

The 10-year Greek bond yield spread over German Bunds has risen to 838 bps from just above 700 bps on Oct. 25, when Papandreou first hinted at the possibility of snap elections.
Greek bank shares <.FTATBNK> have also taken a hit, losing 13 percent over the same period.

"NOT BLUFFING"

If he wins his bet and comes out stronger from the local elections -- usually of minor importance in Greece -- Papandreou will have a stronger mandate to continue with unpopular belt-tightening agreed to stem a debt crisis which exploded after he came to power last year.

But he is also risking antagonising voters, most of whom oppose early elections, analysts said.
In the streets of Athens, many said they were puzzled and talked of "blackmail" -- a word used by the conservative opposition party -- whether they are PASOK supporters or not.

Papandreou has not specified what his benchmark for triggering elections would be and a government spokesman has said it was not possible to define a threshhold in percentages.

"He blackmailed us, he certainly threatened us," said 26-year old bar tender Spyros Klimis. "We were taken aback and he's risking a lot," he said, adding he would nevertheless vote for PASOK because he believes the country needs reforms.

Support for PASOK candidates has slightly improved among core party voters after Papandreou's comments but it is too early to estimate whether he would win his bet, said a Greek analyst who declined to be named.

In an interview over the weekend, Papandreou said he was not bluffing about the possibility of calling snap elections and needed support for policies meant to bring Greece's deficit to under 3 percent of GDP by 2014 from over 15 percent last year.

The opposition conservative New Democracy party, which has been saying for weeks that the local election would test PASOK policies, opposes the austerity plan agreed with the EU and the IMF in return for a 110 billion euro ($153.7 billion) bailout.

"If our course so far starts to be doubted, if we show that we are losing resolve in the middle of the road and are being led to destabilisation, confidence in the country will be lost," Papandreou told Sunday's RealNews paper. [ID:nLDE6A005M]

A PASOK politician, ousted from the party's parliamentary group for voting against the EU/IMF plan in May, is seen winning the election for the Athens region, Greece's biggest, in a sign of disappointment with both the ruling party and the opposition.

A major financial daily, Imerisia, urged the government not to call elections even it fares poorly in the municipal vote to show EU and IMF inspectors, who are due to visit Greece on Nov. 15, that it is serious about reforms.

"This is the only way to ensure the third installment of the EU/IMF loan and deliver a clear message to markets... it is the only way to avoid a return to our bankrupt past, to make a key step for the future," it wrote in its editorial.

Officials at both the EU and the IMF have declined to comment. A German government spokesman has said Berlin, Europe's main paymaster, was not worried about Papandreou's hint on the possibility of general elections.

"I don't think this (snap general elections) will happen, I think both the government and the main opposition party are wise enough to know that this would not help the country at the current juncture," said BNP Paribas analyst Ioannis Sokos.
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Greece is one foothold for China’s broad, strategic push into Europe

NY Times - 02.11.2010


When Prime Minister Wen Jiabao of China visited Athens last month, he came bearing gifts: billions of dollars worth of business deals and a wave of favorable attention from a crucial foreign investor. But China had much greater ambitions. Greece is one foothold for China’s broad, strategic push into Europe. It is snapping up assets depressed by the global financial crisis and becoming a significant partner of other hard-hit European nations. Ultimately, analysts say, Beijing hopes to achieve not just more business for its own companies, but also greater influence over the economic policies set in the power corridors of Brussels and Germany.

(Balkans.com)
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
PM addresses PASOK Central Macedonia conf'





ΑΝΑ-ΜPA/Prime Minister George Papandreou, addressing the ruling PASOK party's Central Macedonia regional conference on Monday, stressed that "we all vote and decide on whether our country will complete the great effort that we began together last year, for its salvation and reshaping, or whether we shall leave the effort unfinished. If we shall let the toils and the sacrifices we made to be lost, returning to the past, to all that have led us here."

The prime minister stressed that this is the dilemma of the November 7 local government elections.

"In this difficult course for all, every day, with our actions, with our options, we will decide if this path, for the change of our country, shall be continued, or we shall leave it incomplete in the middle," the prime minister said.

"We proceed steadfastly or we place Greece in adventures again. This option belongs first of all to the citizen himself, to the Greek people, who with their actions and options every day, with their stance, either ratify it, or stop it," he added.

Papandreou said that for this reason he repeats what he has said many times that "the vote of all of us in the elections on November 7, is a vote of increased and great responsibility. Responsibility towards the country and its future."

(ana.gr)

***
Siamo in piena campagna elettorale.
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Samaras on local gov't elections




ANA-MPa/Main opposition New Democracy (ND) party leader Antonis Samaras, addressing a rally in the city of Tripoli, in the Peloponnese, on Monday evening, called for a "vote against the memorandum and its candidates."
He appealed for a "vote for a change in policy. For an exit from the crisis, with growth, not with suffocation".
Samaras criticised Prime Minister George Papandreou for his policy, while speaking of a "secret agenda" of the government, on the occasion of the statements by Government Vice-President Theodoros Pangalos on the restructuring of the debt.
"The forces of victory and of hope for for a better and proud Peloponnese have rallied here tonight," the ND leader said at the beginning of his address.
"I have come to bring a message of struggle and a message of victory," he further said, adding that he was touring Greece and seeing that "Greece is also turning a page. It is finding itself again and is rejecting the government extortions."


(ana.gr)
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Statements tarnish credibility


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Negotiations about extending loan repayment period reportedly continue with IMF, eurozone

By Sotiris Nikas - Kathimerini


Worries about a possible Greek default or a debt restructuring increased at the start of the week on the back of statements by top government officials, as a leading analyst insisted that it would be difficult for Greece to avoid bankruptcy.


Once again, the spread between the yields of the Greek benchmark 10-year bond and the German Bund widened further, stretching from 825 basis points on Friday to 838 bps yesterday, while the local stock market suffered a fresh decline. New pressures on the Greek bond market were triggered by talk at the European Union summit about the application of a procedure for a controlled default by Greece, as well as comments made by Deputy Prime Minister Theodoros Pangalos, who insisted on Sunday that Greek debt restructuring is still an option.


Yesterday, Labor and Social Insurance Minister Louka Katseli added that “it would be good to achieve a negotiation for prolonging the repayment period of the troika’s debt,” referring to the 110 billion euros Greece will borrow by 2012 from the European Central Bank, the other eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund. “Any extension would be positive as it would release funds for growth,” the former economy minister added.

Sources said that the government is currently locked in negotiations with the IMF and eurozone regarding changes to the terms and conditions of the loan contract.


The talks concern the extension of the repayment period. There have been no decisions made as yet but it appears that negotiations are at an advanced stage. Greece’s aim is to change the contract from the first quarter of 2011 and extend the repayment period from two to five or six years as well as prolonging the grace period which at present stands at three years.


In the midst of this process, however, US economist Nouriel Roubini stressed once again that Greece’s bankruptcy is only a matter of time. The Nobel laureate said: “The data speak very clearly. Even if the country implements its draconian cuts program, which I very much doubt, the burden of the debt according to the IMF forecast will remain considerably higher than 100 percent of gross domestic product. Even the most minor external shock could become a problem beyond control for the Greek debt.”


(Kathimerini.gr)

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tommy271

Forumer storico
October data call for more action


By Prokopis Hatzinikolaou - Kathimerini


The latest budget data concerning the first 10 months of the year has increased the government’s concerns regarding the course of the economy, as the hole still left to plug amounts to 2 billion euros.


Finance Ministry data released yesterday on the January-October period indicate state revenues will amount to just 40.9 billion euros, meaning that, in the remaining 60 days to the end of the year, the state will need to find 11.8 billion euros to stay within the forecasts for the existing draft budget for 2011.


The ministry is fully aware that the maximum amount that can be collected in this period will not exceed 10.7 billion euros, meaning that 2010 will lag by at least 1.1 billion euros, affecting the deficit of both this year and next. Brussels and the International Monetary Fund have also been partly following the situation, hence their demand for strengthening the tax-collection mechanisms that have been in active for some time.


Yet even the target of 10.7 billion euros appears particularly high. Ministry officials put the revenue lag at a minimum of 2 billion euros, which will entail a cut in the public investment program by 800 million euros. At any rate, the target of reducing the deficit to just 18.5 billion euros for 2010 is now history.


Unofficial data from the Finance Ministry show that in October the state cashed in 4.4 billion euros, which is just 2.3 percent higher than in October 2009. In the first 10 months of the year, the revenues have shown a 3.5 percent increase, against a target of 8.7 percent growth. Greece’s lenders are therefore considering asking Athens for new tough measures not for the rest of this year but in 2011, in order to cover the revenues lost in 2010 as well as offsetting the increase in the 2009 deficit and the losses from the economy’s expected deeper recession in 2011.


(Kathimerini.gr)

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