Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1 (4 lettori)

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C.Bonacieux

Forumer attivo
1) In una giornata tesa come questa devo fare i complimenti a tutti i forummari per il loro contegno
. E' facile per me o altri (che siamo, per il momento, fuori) filosofeggiare. Altri forummari sono ben dentro e comunque sono rimasti freddi.
Oggi un forummaro ha venduto in forte loss una importante fetta del suo ptf, ha salutato il 3d con una classe che io non avrei.
Complimenti.
Il complimento più sincero è per il "padrone di casa" Tommy. Penso che sia principalmente (anche se non solo) merito suo.
Con tutti gli utenti collegati in questi giorni penso che Argema potrebbe pagargli un week-end a Santorini ;)




2) Per sdrammatizzare : mi sono appena sentito con un farmacista di Rodi mio stretto parente per parlare della situazione finanziaria.
Ebbene, non scherzo, il suo cruccio più grande è stato quello di apprendere che il Bond del Montenegro (considerati dei poveracci incolti montanari...)(di cui sono stato possessore sino ad oggi) oggi quotava oltre 103 :eek: (rispetto alla rottamaglia greca...).
Non se ne capacitava,voleva spiegazioni...peggio che la moglie fosse scappata con un turco (per uno di Rodi...)
Questi sono i Greci . ;)

:lol::D:DD::-D:B:pig::lovin::prr::noo::moglie::godo:
 

amorgos34

CHIAGNI & FOTTI SRL
certus an incertus quando.


Ciao Costanza :),

devi sapere che i greci da sempre (ultimi dieci anni meno) sono terrorizzati da un eventuale invasione turca.
E spesso nelle loro discussioni dicono "SE i turchi ci invaderanno..." , ebbene i rodioti sono più pratici e nei loro discorsi dicono : "QUANDO i turchi ci invaderanno"

:up:
 

Nobody's

Γένοιο οἷος εἷ
Cattura.JPG
 

C.Bonacieux

Forumer attivo
Ciao Costanza :),

devi sapere che i greci da sempre (ultimi dieci anni meno) sono terrorizzati da un eventuale invasione turca.
E spesso nelle loro discussioni dicono "SE i turchi ci invaderanno..." , ebbene i rodioti sono più pratici e nei loro discorsi dicono : "QUANDO i turchi ci invaderanno"

:up:

OT: questo mi ricorda la madre anziana del film 'Il mio grasso grosso matrimonio greco'
 

giub

New Membro
2) Per sdrammatizzare : mi sono appena sentito con un farmacista di Rodi mio stretto parente per parlare della situazione finanziaria.
Ebbene, non scherzo, il suo cruccio più grande è stato quello di apprendere che il Bond del Montenegro (considerati dei poveracci incolti montanari...)(di cui sono stato possessore sino ad oggi) oggi quotava oltre 103 :eek: (rispetto alla rottamaglia greca...).
Non se ne capacitava,voleva spiegazioni...peggio che la moglie fosse scappata con un turco (per uno di Rodi...)
Questi sono i Greci . ;)

:lol::lol:

Cosa direbbe di questo....XS0438534579....Macedonia 2013....
Bond | MAZEDONIEN 09/13 | A1AJVT | XS0438534579

sta a 108 :D
 
Ultima modifica:

stefanofabb

GAIN/Welcome
La mia posizione, ovviamente, non si è spostata di un millimetro, nonostante oggi sia stata una giornata nerissima per le quotazioni e per il portafoglio!
Ciao, ciao, Giuseppe
bene Giuseppe.io non venderei per nessuna ragione e vi auguro doppio gain .del resto mi hai insegnato la tripla pazienza :clap: e il modo per essere meno ansiosi per tutti è quello di esprimere le proprie idee con un pizzico di sarcasmo...ognuno e esternare i propri dubbi.bisogna parlare e non chiudersi.:) ciao a tutti del 3d, mi sdoppio in quello dei tds,un po come fa tommy che oramai ha raggiunto il fatidico 20000 messaggi:V
 

giub

New Membro
For Greece, the Path to Restructuring Holds Pitfalls



BRUSSELS—To many private-sector economists, the idea that Greece eventually will have to default on its towering debts is almost a foregone conclusion. But the path has plenty of pitfalls.
Euro-zone nations that rescued Greece have told their citizens they wouldn't lose money. Enfeebled Greek banks hold Greek debt, so their losses might need to be patched by the government. And, paradoxically, a default would likely entail more international bailout money since Greece would be cut off from the financial-market funding it still needs to survive on its own.
"The time for easy solutions is long passed," says Sony Kapoor, managing director of Re-Define, a Brussels-based economic think tank.
Already-high market expectations of a default—or "restructuring," in polite parlance—have risen in recent days, pushing Greek bond yields higher. Greek and EU officials have lined up to reject the possibility.
"We do not see debt restructuring as an option," EU economy commissioner Olli Rehn said Thursday at the Brookings Institution in Washington. Lorenzo Bini Smaghi, a member of the European Central Bank's executive board, said in a newspaper interview Thursday that after a restructuring "the Greek economy would be on its knees."
But bond yields continued to climb Friday, reflecting investors' deepening skepticism that Greece will be able to tolerate a debt burden projected to rise above 1.5 times its annual economic output this year.



The €110 billion ($158.70 billion) bailout conceived by the European authorities and the International Monetary Fund doesn't directly shrink that pile—indeed, the bailout comprises simply more loans. The EU reckons that Greece's government debt will rise to €375 billion in 2013 from €298 billion in 2009.
Absent a restructuring, the debt won't decline until Greece frees up cash to pay it off. That will require a massive overhaul of Greek finances; the state hasn't had a budget surplus in more than two decades.
"Markets are currently factoring in a restructuring of some kind—and soon," says Kenneth Wattret, chief euro-zone economist at BNP Paribas in London.
One possible form of a restructuring is a "haircut," in which bondholders are repaid less than they lent. Still, Mr. Wattret points out that it's not quite so simple.
A haircut could jostle the European banking system by forcing losses on the banks that hold Greek debt. It could also rock other weak euro-zone countries. Delaying restructuring delays that reckoning. "To an extent, that's been working," says Mr. Wattret, who points out that the passage of time has led markets to look much more favorably on Spain. There are other hurdles.
WO-AF277_GRDEBT_NS_20110417181207.jpg



Economists at the Brussels think tank Bruegel calculate that roughly 20% of Greece's debt at the end of 2010 was held by domestic banks. They are in difficult straits, and fForcing losses on them may simply require the country's rescuers to come up with more money to help.
About a third is held by "nonbanks," including pension funds and insurance companies. The EU would want to "stress test" those institutions before considering losses, says André Sapir, a Bruegel economist. And, he says, pension funds are politically sensitive. "There are people behind them."
As the euro-zone countries and the IMF dole out their loans to Greece, progressively larger portions of the debt become held by that "official" sector. Mr. Kapoor calculates that, because of difficulty meeting budget targets in Greece, the lion's share of the €110 billion will need to be given by the end of this year.
On the EU side, the bailout comprises €80 billion in direct loans from 15 euro-zone countries to Greece.
A restructuring could well mean losses for those 15 lenders, which would be deeply resented in Germany, Finland, the Netherlands and other strong countries whose voters were wary of the bailouts to begin with. The euro-zone bailout loans explicitly rank equally with existing creditors, making it hard for the euro-zone countries to demand that private-sector creditors take haircuts while exempting themselves. The resolution remains uncertain.
"From a political viewpoint, it was hard for me to see the [euro-zone countries] taking a loss," says Mr. Sapir. "From a legal viewpoint, it was hard for me to see them not taking a loss."
And Greece will, almost certainly, need more money. The EU currently anticipates that Greece will begin issuing long-term debt again on financial markets in the first quarter of next year.
That appears unlikely given current bond-market conditions. But Greece currently still runs a deficit large enough that even if it stops making all interest payments, it would still need to borrow more. That money would have to come from somewhere.
—Todd Buell and Matthew Dalton contributed to this article.
 

AAAA47

Forumer storico
Ciao Costanza :),

devi sapere che i greci da sempre (ultimi dieci anni meno) sono terrorizzati da un eventuale invasione turca.
E spesso nelle loro discussioni dicono "SE i turchi ci invaderanno..." , ebbene i rodioti sono più pratici e nei loro discorsi dicono : "QUANDO i turchi ci invaderanno"

:up:

una cosa che mi sono chiesto piu' volte in questi giorni...
ma i greci che fanno con i loro bond?
immagino che come in italia, anche in grecia ci saranno persone che hanno in portafoglio, magari comprati direttamente in asta, i triennali, i decennali,i 2037, i 2025 etc etc
immagino che molti abbiano venduto (anche se vendere a 50 un 2037 non so quanto senso abbia, a meno che non sei 100% convinto che non riprenderai un centesimo in caso di default), ma ci saranno anche altri che li comprano sul secondario...immagino come stiamo facendo noi, convinti che un default che porti a zero i titoli greci sia impossibile (ho preso 33% dalle GM in us$ comprate a 6$, possibile che da un default della grecia non si riprenda almeno 40-50?
magari c'e' qualche forum anche da loro, ma purtroppo la lingua (quanto sarebbe comodo se esistesse una sola lingua al mondo..) e' un ostacolo insormontabile...
 

giub

New Membro
Finnish Vote Casts Shadow on EU Rescue Plans

Nationalist Party Pushes Harder Line on European Bailouts


HELSINKI—A euroskeptic party scored a close third-place finish in Finland's national election Sunday, raising the chance it could enter government and disrupt the euro zone's program of bailouts for the bloc's deeply indebted countries. The nationalist True Finns party, led by Timo Soini, garnered 19% of the vote, a fraction of a percentage point behind the second-place Social Democrats. The conservative party of current Finance Minister Jyrki Katainen won 20.4%.
The tight results suggest that coalition negotiations will be complicated, but Finland will almost certainly emerge with a harder line on European Union bailouts: Mr. Soini has unabashedly opposed them, and the Social Democrats are skeptical unless private investors and bankers are forced to take financial losses.
"We seek to form part of the next government and hopefully that will be achieved," Mr. Soini said.
Finland is one of six euro-zone countries with a triple-A credit rating; as such, it carries outsize importance in debates over the EU bailout fund, which is based on a system of loan guarantees.
Finland's guarantee is effectively worth more than the guarantee of a larger country with weaker credit.
Pressing ahead with bailouts without Finland—if it came to that—would require a complex reworking of the structure of the fund.
It would also be politically devastating for the other strong countries, including Germany and the Netherlands, where a popular antibailout strain runs strong.
Still, Mr. Katainen and his National Coalition Party won, and he and current Prime Minister Mari Kiviniemi of the Center Party have joined the euro-zone consensus of bailouts and rescue funds for the debt-ravaged countries on the currency bloc's periphery.
Mr. Soini hasn't. He said the election results means bailouts for troubled countries will have to be renegotiated. (The Center Party lost significant support, and Ms. Kiviniemi said it won't be part of the next coalition.)
Finland committed loans as part of aid to Greece last year, and it has guaranteed borrowing by the EU's current rescue fund, which is being used to help Ireland and will be called upon for the imminent bailout of Portugal.
Finland can't rescind its guarantees, but the True Finns have vowed to veto any increase in Finland's contribution to the current bailout fund, called the European Financial Stability Facility, or the new permanent fund that will begin operating in 2013, the European Stability Mechanism.
More immediately, Finland, like all the euro-zone countries participating the EFSF, must approve each new bailout. Portugal is expected to reach a deal for an €80 billion ($115 billion) aid package next month.
The billions in aid have angered many in Finland, one of the euro zone's most fiscally sound nations.
Antibailout messages helped buoy the True Finns, who received just 4.1% of the vote in the previous elections, in 2007.
"I see the victory of the True Finns as so significant that I think their place is in the next government," said Jutta Urpilainen, the head of the Social Democratic Party.
The True Finns' popularity also led Finnish leaders during the election campaign to take a hard line on bailouts—delaying, for instance, a plan to expand the size of the existing rescue fund.
How much of an effect the True Finns will have isn't yet clear—and it likely won't be evident until coalition negotiations begin.
A new Finnish government opposing further bailouts could, in theory, prevent the bailout fund from granting new rescue loans, because they have to be agreed unanimously.
Mr. Katainen, who is slated to become the country's next prime minister, struck a note of conciliation.
"We can cooperate with every party based on the election result and agreeing on a government program," he said.
—Charles Forelle in Brussels contributed to this article.
 
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