Nerone975
Nuovo forumer
Non ho parlato di azzeramento ma di ristrutturazione, bisogna farla perchè se il malato entra in coma non ne vien più fuori
Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
Non ho parlato di azzeramento ma di ristrutturazione, bisogna farla perchè se il malato entra in coma non ne vien più fuori
tommy271
Forumer storico
Bisogna vedere, le ipotesi sono tante.
Già ora, paradossalmente, facendo un buy-back il debito viene tagliato senza colpo ferire.
Ma non posso ridurre ad una battuta gli innumerevoli scenari futuribili...
Se hai una tua ricetta, esponila pure.
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Nerone975
Nuovo forumer
Te sfuggito un piccolo dettaglio...che la grecia è in fase di forte recessione incremento dei fallimenti delle aziende del 15% oltre che nel paese è forte la corruzione, molti non pagano le tasse e dulcis in fundo è un'economia non proprio dinamica per cui i soldi ho li togli dalle tasche dei greci sperando che ce ne siano...e soprattutto che te li diano
o la baracca non regge.
tommy271
Forumer storico
ECB Stark: Debt Restructuring Won't Solve Greece's Problems
(Rewrites throughout with comments by Stark on Greece inflation.)
By Nicholas Winning
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
LONDON (Dow Jones)--A debt rescheduling or restructuring won't solve the problems of the Greek economy, European Central Bank Executive Board Member Juergen Stark said Wednesday.
"The reflection that a debt restructuring would be an easy way out of the current situation is misleading," he said. "Greece has to produce a primary surplus, and a primary surplus means that it has to continue with fiscal consolidation."
The Greek government's privatization program, which aims to raise up to EUR50 billion by 2015, is an important element in its efforts to reduce debt, he said in answer to questions from an audience of bankers after delivering a lecture on the international monetary system.
Looking ahead, Stark said the euro zone's inflation rate was unlikely to return to around the ECB's medium-term target of just below 2% until next year.
"It is very likely that in 2011 we will see an inflation rate on average in the euro area above 2.5%, and only slightly declining towards 2% or slightly below 2% in 2012," he said.
The ECB raised interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point to 1.25% on April 7, the first increase since mid-2008, to prevent rising consumer prices from leading to broad-based inflation. The euro zone's inflation rate hit a 30-month high of 2.8% in April--far above the ECB's medium-term target of just below 2%.
The ECB left interest rates on hold last Thursday and said it would continue to monitor very closely all upside risks to price stability. For many market participants that was a softening of the bank's rhetoric from the comment in March that strong vigilance was required, and a signal it is unlikely to raise rates in June.
Stark said code words had served the ECB well since they were introduced, but cautioned against putting too much emphasis on them.
"Using these code words does not mean really that there is a commitment on the side of the ECB governing council...to deliver a policy," he said, adding that decisions depend on the situation at the time and new data and assessments.
During his lecture, which didn't touch on monetary policy, Stark said greater flexibility in the exchange rates of big developing economies was key for a stable global monetary system.
Global imbalances were sure to persist if there was no determined action, he said. The cure to excessive reserve accumulation lies in reforming domestic financial systems and allowing for the strengthening of domestic demand, he said.
"Greater flexibility in the exchange rates of major emerging economies is in this respect a fundamental precondition for a stable international monetary system," he said.
(Rewrites throughout with comments by Stark on Greece inflation.)
By Nicholas Winning
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
LONDON (Dow Jones)--A debt rescheduling or restructuring won't solve the problems of the Greek economy, European Central Bank Executive Board Member Juergen Stark said Wednesday.
"The reflection that a debt restructuring would be an easy way out of the current situation is misleading," he said. "Greece has to produce a primary surplus, and a primary surplus means that it has to continue with fiscal consolidation."
The Greek government's privatization program, which aims to raise up to EUR50 billion by 2015, is an important element in its efforts to reduce debt, he said in answer to questions from an audience of bankers after delivering a lecture on the international monetary system.
Looking ahead, Stark said the euro zone's inflation rate was unlikely to return to around the ECB's medium-term target of just below 2% until next year.
"It is very likely that in 2011 we will see an inflation rate on average in the euro area above 2.5%, and only slightly declining towards 2% or slightly below 2% in 2012," he said.
The ECB raised interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point to 1.25% on April 7, the first increase since mid-2008, to prevent rising consumer prices from leading to broad-based inflation. The euro zone's inflation rate hit a 30-month high of 2.8% in April--far above the ECB's medium-term target of just below 2%.
The ECB left interest rates on hold last Thursday and said it would continue to monitor very closely all upside risks to price stability. For many market participants that was a softening of the bank's rhetoric from the comment in March that strong vigilance was required, and a signal it is unlikely to raise rates in June.
Stark said code words had served the ECB well since they were introduced, but cautioned against putting too much emphasis on them.
"Using these code words does not mean really that there is a commitment on the side of the ECB governing council...to deliver a policy," he said, adding that decisions depend on the situation at the time and new data and assessments.
During his lecture, which didn't touch on monetary policy, Stark said greater flexibility in the exchange rates of big developing economies was key for a stable global monetary system.
Global imbalances were sure to persist if there was no determined action, he said. The cure to excessive reserve accumulation lies in reforming domestic financial systems and allowing for the strengthening of domestic demand, he said.
"Greater flexibility in the exchange rates of major emerging economies is in this respect a fundamental precondition for a stable international monetary system," he said.
Ultima modifica:
Nerone975
Nuovo forumer
la cosa piu saggia da fare credo sia intanto smalmare il debito (allungamento scadenze) il mercato specula proprio sull'incertezza, mettere dei punti fermi è un bene per cui l'investitore che ha piu garanzie ti premia.
come è adesso non si sa nemmeno se domani la sto paese si continuerà a chiamare Grecia o cambia di colpo nome e ti trovi sulla cartina scritto CONGO!
Ultima modifica:
tommy271
Forumer storico
Shipping: Shipbrokers Expect A Recovery After 2013
Greek shipbrokers expect the freight market to move at low but stable levels over the next two or three years.
A series of extraneous factors such as disaster in Japan, North African conflict and Middle East, but also inherent “weaknesses” such as oversupply of oceangoing vessels will determine the course of shipping until 2013, according to the Hellenic Shipbrokers Association.
“We are optimistic because we expect the market to remain stable”, said the association’s vice president Thomas Pagonis, adding that a new “bubble” is not expected soon and shipping will no longer characterized as a high-risk investment.
The oversupply of ships will be the biggest concern for the next two years, according to the president of the association, Yannis Pachoulis, as the new vessels will represent the 60% of current operating fleet.
The problem is compounded by the reduced shiploads, as worldwide growth remains low and markets area affected by Japanese disaster and unrest in North Africa, said the president. However, he estimated that the market would move at low but stable levels.
The increasing withdrawals of old ships would stabilize the supply and demand of affreightments, but despite the fact that scrap prices move upwards, ship-owners do not destruct ships.
The shipbrokers characterized this attitude as reasonable to some extent as the old ships are free of loans, thus generating higher net profit than new vessels that carry debt burdens. Commenting on the rally in prices of goods and raw materials, they noted that a balance would come until 2013, because of the growth of countries of Southeast Asia and China and Japanese needs for reconstruction.
"Until then the prices of raw materials will increase. As soon as the stabilize, shipping will be stabilized too," according to Yannis Pachoulis.
(capital.gr)
Greek shipbrokers expect the freight market to move at low but stable levels over the next two or three years.
A series of extraneous factors such as disaster in Japan, North African conflict and Middle East, but also inherent “weaknesses” such as oversupply of oceangoing vessels will determine the course of shipping until 2013, according to the Hellenic Shipbrokers Association.
“We are optimistic because we expect the market to remain stable”, said the association’s vice president Thomas Pagonis, adding that a new “bubble” is not expected soon and shipping will no longer characterized as a high-risk investment.
The oversupply of ships will be the biggest concern for the next two years, according to the president of the association, Yannis Pachoulis, as the new vessels will represent the 60% of current operating fleet.
The problem is compounded by the reduced shiploads, as worldwide growth remains low and markets area affected by Japanese disaster and unrest in North Africa, said the president. However, he estimated that the market would move at low but stable levels.
The increasing withdrawals of old ships would stabilize the supply and demand of affreightments, but despite the fact that scrap prices move upwards, ship-owners do not destruct ships.
The shipbrokers characterized this attitude as reasonable to some extent as the old ships are free of loans, thus generating higher net profit than new vessels that carry debt burdens. Commenting on the rally in prices of goods and raw materials, they noted that a balance would come until 2013, because of the growth of countries of Southeast Asia and China and Japanese needs for reconstruction.
"Until then the prices of raw materials will increase. As soon as the stabilize, shipping will be stabilized too," according to Yannis Pachoulis.
(capital.gr)
giub
New Membro
ECB Stark
ebt Restructuring Won't Solve Greece's Problems era più bello così...sembrava fatto apposta
Comandante Gerard
Forumer storico
La Grecia è ancora in vita solo grazie ai prestiti (questa non è un'opinione personale è un dato reale). il fatto che sia sostenibile viene da se che non lo è visto l'aiuto esterno...
La grecia galleggia sul mare dei debiti...se vi pare poca roba che il buon dio vi protegga...sperando che chi è sulla barca non soffrà il mal di mare
Vista la barca...
...ho il ragionevole dubbio che gli antiistaminici per il mal di mare saranno superflui
tommy271
Forumer storico
la cosa piu saggia da fare credo sia intanto smalmare il debito (allungamento scadenze) il mercato specula proprio sull'incertezza, mettere dei punti fermi è un bene per cui l'investitore che ha piu garanzie ti premia.
come è adesso non si sa nemmeno se domani la grecia si chiamagrecia o cambia di colpo nome e si farà chiamare CONGO!
Il solo allungo delle scadenze lo si può fare sui prestiti della Troika e, al limite, incrementando la copertura sino a tutta la prima metà del 2013( e credo sia quello che faranno).
Attualmente è quello che serve.
Spostare le scadenze dei bond potrebbe ingenerare più caos che vantaggi.
StockExchange
Forumer storico
Nel tuo esercizio di contabilità dimentichi di completare il quadro dicendo che il soggetto in questione ha anche come costi base per vivere...diciamo riducendo le spese all'osso, per mangiare pane e cipolle (austerity che i Greci stanno già facendo), affitto e utenze per la casa (spesa corrente per i servizi della macchina statale e della spesa sociale, per quel po' che ancora stanno riuscendo a tenere in piedi) e non ti ci metto neanche auto e assicurazione RCA
, 22.100 euro (10,5% di disavanzo) e quindi per pagare l'interesse di 1500 euro sui suoi buffi (e sottolineo solo l'interesse, non il capitale) deve ulteriormente indebitarsi.O meglio, già per campare deve ulteriormente indebitarsi, in più pure per pagare gli interessi. Generando nuovi interessi. In più è protestato quindi i soldi glieli prestano o gli usurai (il mercato, nel caso la Grecia dovesse accedervi agli attuali interessi del secondario) o un amico (aiuti degli altri paesi EU che però tanto amici non sembrano e comunque glieli prestano ad interesse, non da usura, ma comunque ad interesse e non proprio simbolico).A quel punto o aumenta il reddito (ripresa economica, se non fosse che l'austerity certo non la stimola) o ci si vende l'argenteria di famiglia per ripianare almeno parte dei debiti ed estinguere quindi parte dei relativi oneri correnti. Oppure i prestiti degli amici vanno a fondo perduto (o quasi) allungandoli a dismisura nelle scadenze, abbattendo gli interessi applicati a livelli simbolici e se serve espandendo i prestiti alla bisogna in futuro. Oppure ancora, fornendo, i suddetti amici, una fideiussione per far andare il soggetto in questione (Grecia) in banca (mercato) a continuare lo schema ponzi a costi sostenibili con un credito revolving. Questa era la soluzione più logica e meno onerosa secondo me, ma non si è fatto (fino ad ora), non volendo trasferire i costi indiretti del merito di credito da fideiussione e un anno dopo siamo ancora nel pieno della crisi, se possibile anche aggravata.
Ma da qui a dire che il soggetto in questione (o la Grecia se preferisci) non sia fallita ce ne corre.
Diverso è il ragionamento di Bini Smaghi che quando dice che la Grecia "è ricca" e "non è fallita", fa appunto riferimento all'argenteria di famiglia
, non certo alla sostenibilità dell'attuale bilancio.
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