Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1 (1 Viewer)
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
robinson
Forumer storico
.... caffè, brioche e.... le notizie fresche di Tommy;
buona giornata; e... grazie Tommy!
sethi
Forumer storico
Originalmente inviato da Topgun1976
Con Questa abbiamo chiuso con le Agenzie
S&P cuts Greece's LC & FC rating to CC from CCC; outlook negative
GRECIA, PER S&P RISTRUTTURAZIONE DEBITO CORRISPONDE A DEFAULT SELETTIVO
Di mettere in Outlook il Debito Usa No Però....
Premesso che la situazione non è certo delle più serene,
TUTTAVIA,
il rating CC purtroppo è una categoria che non è in grado di distinguere bene tra le diverse situazioni.
CC infatti è l' anticamera del Selective Default; ma un conto è un default al buio, dove gli haircut verranno fatti (ed eventualmente accettati o no) solo dopo; senza nessun tipo di paracadute.
Un conto è il CC dato alla grecia dove c'è un piano concordato ed accettato a priori dalle banche, con un haircut del 21% che è già noto ed accettato a priori; il tutto sopra la superivisione e la protezione di UE/BCE.
Mi chiedo come mai non vi siano termini quindi capaci di differenziare situazioni completamente differenti: un CC dell' argentina predefault può essere paragonato a questo della grecia???
Possibile che non si possano coniare termini come Selective Default (perchè riguarda solo certe scadenze e non tutte) ma anche "selective" per indicare che NON tutti gli attori subiranno haircut (il retail no! almeno per i prossimi anni)? noi sappiamo che ad agosto si passerà per questo tunnel, ma l' uscita ci sarà qualche giorno dopo; quindi, come si possono chiamare allo stesso modo default disordinati, e senza nessun tipo di governance, da questo che invece mi pare assolutamente "gestito"?
E' come avere un solo termine per indicare Marylin Monroe e ... mia nonna (= entrambe sono.... "donne").
E' come andare in coma spontaneo, oppure che siano i medici a mandare il paziente in coma farmacologico e monitorato: come fare a non distinguere??
Quando Schauble ha indicato la via di un haircut per i privati, si sapeva che si andava quindi ad un default, ma questo viene piulotato, guidato; è il coma farmacologico, non è lo stesso coma nel quale è caduta ad esempio l' argentina! Quindi la parola "coma" da sola non può bastare! e quindi neppure la parola "defakult" è sufficiente a spiegare situazioni completamente differenti.
Ieri sera la PRIMA notizia del TG LA7 è stata: grosso calo in borsa e ulteriore declassamento per la grecia, che con "CC" è ormai ad un passo dal default!
Chi non è bene informato (e per fortuna che esiste questo forum ed il fol !!!) anche se finora ha avuto il fegato di resistere, può essere che voglia mollare tutto, perchè veramente convinto che: default grecia = default argentina, cirio, alitalia, parmalat....
Ma molti di noi (e nonno Trichet) pensiamo (speriamo anche) che non sia proprio così!
La situazione in Argentina prima del default era molto diversa anzi paradossalmente l'opposto della situazione ellenica.
infatti nel 2000 l'argentina era lo studente modello del FMI e fino a poche settimane prima del default le scadenze + lunghe le acquistavi a 65/70
sad:
indovinate unpò chi le aveva acquistate) ma le avevo acquistate perchè pochi giorni prima sui quotidiani nazionali era uscita la notizia che l'FMI avrebbe sostenuto lo studente modello bene il tempo passò circa un mese e un bel giorno .....Cucù cucù i tds argentina non ci son + ......nel senso che erano defaultati non aveva i dineros x pagare .Grecia situazione annunciata preannuncitata per cui situyazioni diverse questo è pilotato alla grande e tutto considerato senza neanche troppi danni visto i danni fatti dal nocciolo core dell'euro.
Riguardo all'italia non ritengo che arrivi ad un default ma un bello scossonne dalle attuali quotazioni e un bel ribasso azionario penso che non ce lo levi nessuno....ma okkio non solo italia, il ribasso comincerà ad avere un accento francese se la situazione prende una china pericolosa
e nel caso la sopravvivenza dell'euro sarà in pericolo.
Tempistica .......agosto è famoso x grossi gain e forti perdite , settembre ufficializza la situazione ottobre e novembre si tirano le somme e natale tutti a mandarini come i nostyri nonni (scusate la battuta ma era per ridere un pò)
tommy271
Forumer storico
PM hails party's efforts, pushes reforms
Papandreou slams opposition New Democracy for recklessly seeking political gain
'
Prime Minister George Papandreou on Wednesday credited ministers and deputies of his ruling Socialist party with bringing about the positive outcome of last week’s eurozone summit, which saw the country clinch a fresh debt deal with its lenders, and condemned the main conservative opposition for failing to back the government’s austerity drive.
“We have established our participation at the core of the European Union,” Papandreou told a session of PASOK’s parliamentary group.
“Armed with the tough decisions that we made and the conviction that we shall see them through, we accomplished everything that the opposition accused us of failing to negotiate, and in fact more than that,” Papandreou said in an attack on New Democracy, which has repeatedly criticized the government’s policies for relying too much on tax increases.
In a clear dig at ND leader Antonis Samaras, the premier noted that while his government had been struggling to save the country from bankruptcy, and while the Greek people had been obliged to accept salary and pension cuts, “certain people had been dreaming of becoming a prime minister of the drachma,” referring to Greece’s old currency.
Commenting later, ND spokesman Yiannis Michelakis lashed out at the premier. “After leading the country to the edge of collapse, he is now lying and cursing to save himself from collapse,” Michelakis said.
In his speech to PASOK cadres, Papandreou emphasized that it was time to introduce all the major reforms that have been put on hold for decades.
The main goal, he said, was to create primary surpluses in order to stop what he referred to as a “deficit hemorrhage.”
Sources said the premier had sent letters to all his ministers, listing their priority tasks to be completed by the end of August, usually a month of rest for Greek politicians.
For the Finance Ministry, the top priority is finalizing the government’s stance on a new tax collection system and drafting an action plan, while the priority for the Development and Competitiveness Ministry is speeding up the absorption of European Union subsidies.
For the Administrative Reform and e-Governance Ministry, the main priority is to finalize a new salary structure and evaluation process for civil servants, and the Justice Ministry has been charged with completing legislation aimed at fast-tracking major cases.
One of the Environment Ministry’s chief tasks will be to resolve the standoff in Keratea, southeastern Attica, where residents vehemently oppose plans for the construction of a large landfill to hold the capital’s trash.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (22:37)
***
Politica interna.
Papandreou slams opposition New Democracy for recklessly seeking political gain
“We have established our participation at the core of the European Union,” Papandreou told a session of PASOK’s parliamentary group.
“Armed with the tough decisions that we made and the conviction that we shall see them through, we accomplished everything that the opposition accused us of failing to negotiate, and in fact more than that,” Papandreou said in an attack on New Democracy, which has repeatedly criticized the government’s policies for relying too much on tax increases.
In a clear dig at ND leader Antonis Samaras, the premier noted that while his government had been struggling to save the country from bankruptcy, and while the Greek people had been obliged to accept salary and pension cuts, “certain people had been dreaming of becoming a prime minister of the drachma,” referring to Greece’s old currency.
Commenting later, ND spokesman Yiannis Michelakis lashed out at the premier. “After leading the country to the edge of collapse, he is now lying and cursing to save himself from collapse,” Michelakis said.
In his speech to PASOK cadres, Papandreou emphasized that it was time to introduce all the major reforms that have been put on hold for decades.
The main goal, he said, was to create primary surpluses in order to stop what he referred to as a “deficit hemorrhage.”
Sources said the premier had sent letters to all his ministers, listing their priority tasks to be completed by the end of August, usually a month of rest for Greek politicians.
For the Finance Ministry, the top priority is finalizing the government’s stance on a new tax collection system and drafting an action plan, while the priority for the Development and Competitiveness Ministry is speeding up the absorption of European Union subsidies.
For the Administrative Reform and e-Governance Ministry, the main priority is to finalize a new salary structure and evaluation process for civil servants, and the Justice Ministry has been charged with completing legislation aimed at fast-tracking major cases.
One of the Environment Ministry’s chief tasks will be to resolve the standoff in Keratea, southeastern Attica, where residents vehemently oppose plans for the construction of a large landfill to hold the capital’s trash.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (22:37)
***
Politica interna.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Call for dialogue on illegally built homes
Environment Minister Giorgos Papaconstantinou said on Wednesday that he was open to proposals on a government blueprint that aims to raise much-needed funding for state coffers by granting temporary legitimacy to thousands of illegally constructed homes.
A day before the bill’s scheduled submission in Parliament, Papaconstantinou said he was open to dialogue as regards certain criteria, such as the level of fines offenders should pay, but stressed that some properties would be automatically excluded from the scheme.
“It will not apply to properties that have been built on forestland, on beaches and on archaeological sites,” the minister told Parliament.
But many MPs expressed doubts about the project’s enforceability.
“How will we monitor what is declared?” remarked Kyriakos Mitsotakis, a prominent cadre in the main conservative opposition New Democracy party who heads Parliament’s environmental affairs committee. Katerina Farmaki, a PASOK deputy for Corinth, struck a similar tone, saying: “Are we just going to legalize everything? We have to set up a framework.”
Under Papaconstantinou’s blueprint, homeowners who pay the fines, the size of which has yet to be set, would protect their properties from the threat of demolition for between 20 and 40 years. The regulations will vary slightly depending on whether the home has been built without a permit or if it has failed to comply with town-planning rules, or both. Properties located within the town plan will be legitimized for 40 years and those outside for 20 years.
The scheme is similar to one introduced last year, which allowed homeowners to declare illegally altered parts of their properties, known as “imiypaithrioi,” in exchange for a fee, to protect them from penalties for 40 years. The deadline for applications by homeowners has been extended until the end of the year. Already more than 600,000 applications have been submitted, raising over 300 million euros.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (21:26)
***
Problemi comuni nel sud-europa...
A day before the bill’s scheduled submission in Parliament, Papaconstantinou said he was open to dialogue as regards certain criteria, such as the level of fines offenders should pay, but stressed that some properties would be automatically excluded from the scheme.
“It will not apply to properties that have been built on forestland, on beaches and on archaeological sites,” the minister told Parliament.
But many MPs expressed doubts about the project’s enforceability.
“How will we monitor what is declared?” remarked Kyriakos Mitsotakis, a prominent cadre in the main conservative opposition New Democracy party who heads Parliament’s environmental affairs committee. Katerina Farmaki, a PASOK deputy for Corinth, struck a similar tone, saying: “Are we just going to legalize everything? We have to set up a framework.”
Under Papaconstantinou’s blueprint, homeowners who pay the fines, the size of which has yet to be set, would protect their properties from the threat of demolition for between 20 and 40 years. The regulations will vary slightly depending on whether the home has been built without a permit or if it has failed to comply with town-planning rules, or both. Properties located within the town plan will be legitimized for 40 years and those outside for 20 years.
The scheme is similar to one introduced last year, which allowed homeowners to declare illegally altered parts of their properties, known as “imiypaithrioi,” in exchange for a fee, to protect them from penalties for 40 years. The deadline for applications by homeowners has been extended until the end of the year. Already more than 600,000 applications have been submitted, raising over 300 million euros.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (21:26)
***
Problemi comuni nel sud-europa...
PASTELLETTO
Guest
In che senso?
tommy271
Forumer storico
Nel senso che nel frattempo i movimenti speculativi potrebbero riprendere, con l'Eurozona scoperta senza difese: la BCE non acquista.
Dovrebbero, e potrebbero, farlo le singole banche centrali.
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Ah ok.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Consultants appointed for PSI
BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank and HSBC to advise government on private sector involvement in bailout
By Evgenia Tzortzi
BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank and HSBC will be the government’s consultants in the bond swap process and the debt buyback program it is making plans for, and will be in discussions on Thursday with representatives of the Institute of International Finance in Athens.
The Public Debt Management Agency is to host the meeting with the government’s advisers as well as PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which is the adviser of the Hellenic Bank Association.
New York-based law firm Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton was also appointed to provide legal counsel while Lazard Asset Management was chosen to dispense financial advice, according to a Finance Ministry statement on Wednesday.
The details of the program are seen as particularly important as they will determine whether Greek banks will participate in the private sector involvement (PSI) initiative. The IIF announced the participation of lenders Alpha, National, Eurobank EFG, Piraeus, Bank of Cyprus and Hellenic.
The list of the 30 bank and insurance groups to take part in the restructuring, originally announced by the IIF, also includes Royal Bank of Scotland and Banco Santander as of Wednesday.
Deutsche Bank estimates that the participation of the private sector in the bailout package for Greece with a 21 percent haircut is manageable by Greek banks “provided Core Tier 1 remains at 7 percent.” However, if it grows to 10 percent, local banks (with the exception of National) will need another 6 billion euros.
Deutsche’s estimates put the haircut impact for Eurobank and Piraeus at 1.6 billion euros each, for ATEbank at 1.5 billion, for Alpha at 1.1 billion, for Marfin Popular Bank at 0.6 billion and for Bank of Cyprus at 0.4 billion euros.
Nevertheless ATEbank stated on Wednesday it would not follow European proposals that would make it write down the value of its 7.9 billion euros of Greek debt.
The lender won’t take part while efforts to boost its weak capital position are under way, chairman Theodoros Pantalakis said yesterday. The bank “is not allowed by EU rules to participate in the PSI for as long as its restructuring program is on,” Pantalakis said. “That means that ATEbank cannot participate until the end of 2013.”
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (22:48)
BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank and HSBC to advise government on private sector involvement in bailout
BNP Paribas, Deutsche Bank and HSBC will be the government’s consultants in the bond swap process and the debt buyback program it is making plans for, and will be in discussions on Thursday with representatives of the Institute of International Finance in Athens.
The Public Debt Management Agency is to host the meeting with the government’s advisers as well as PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which is the adviser of the Hellenic Bank Association.
New York-based law firm Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton was also appointed to provide legal counsel while Lazard Asset Management was chosen to dispense financial advice, according to a Finance Ministry statement on Wednesday.
The details of the program are seen as particularly important as they will determine whether Greek banks will participate in the private sector involvement (PSI) initiative. The IIF announced the participation of lenders Alpha, National, Eurobank EFG, Piraeus, Bank of Cyprus and Hellenic.
The list of the 30 bank and insurance groups to take part in the restructuring, originally announced by the IIF, also includes Royal Bank of Scotland and Banco Santander as of Wednesday.
Deutsche Bank estimates that the participation of the private sector in the bailout package for Greece with a 21 percent haircut is manageable by Greek banks “provided Core Tier 1 remains at 7 percent.” However, if it grows to 10 percent, local banks (with the exception of National) will need another 6 billion euros.
Deutsche’s estimates put the haircut impact for Eurobank and Piraeus at 1.6 billion euros each, for ATEbank at 1.5 billion, for Alpha at 1.1 billion, for Marfin Popular Bank at 0.6 billion and for Bank of Cyprus at 0.4 billion euros.
Nevertheless ATEbank stated on Wednesday it would not follow European proposals that would make it write down the value of its 7.9 billion euros of Greek debt.
The lender won’t take part while efforts to boost its weak capital position are under way, chairman Theodoros Pantalakis said yesterday. The bank “is not allowed by EU rules to participate in the PSI for as long as its restructuring program is on,” Pantalakis said. “That means that ATEbank cannot participate until the end of 2013.”
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 (22:48)
tommy271
Forumer storico
(ANA-MPA) -- The government on Tuesday announced a new coupon-based system for paying those employed as domestic workers or farm hands, as well as anyone providing services on an informal, occasional basis, to be officially launched from August 20.
The announcement was made by Labour and Social Insurance Minister George Koutroumanis in Parliament, while briefing a cross-party committee on the findings of a report on the problem of illegal migration.
Under the new system, employers will not pay for such services in cash but in coupons they have paid for in advance, which the recipient will then be able to cash in. The coupons will be available at 600 sale points around the country, with the employer paying the price agreed with the worker for his or her services.
Under the new system, the coupons will be the only legal way to pay for work done for households or individuals, as opposed to business concerns.
The 'work coupons' will originally be supplied by banks and post offices, with plans to also extend distribution to super markets later on. Some super markets have even informed the labour ministry that they might include the new work coupons in their systems of special offers to consumers, based on consumption.
The measure is chiefly designed to ensure that economic migrants, who often find informal employment in homes and farm work, can easily and simply pay social insurance contributions and thus qualify for health care and pensions. The measure is not restricted only to migrant workers but anyone providing work on a less formal basis.
Giving examples, the minister said this form of payment will also be used for at-home calls by hairdressers, private lessons, gardeners or those working on a short-term, temporary basis, such as waiters or singers that appear for one or two nights.
Koutroumanis said the measure was chosen because it would be convenient for both employers and workers, especially in agricultural work where there was extensive contribution-evasion and tax evasion.
The only requirement would be a social insurance number (AMKA) of the employer and employed, with social insurance fund contributions withheld when employees cashed their coupons.
The minister also announced that a draft bill incorporating Community regulations on illegal employment into national law will be ready by the end of August. This will include harsh penalties for those illegally employing migrants, including jail sentences of up to six months for repeat offenders.
He also informed the committee that the ministry had already commission a 'migrant map' for Attica and Thessaloniki in order to determine the "qualitative and quantitative" features of the migrant population and adopt the right policies.
"It is very important for us to have a picture of what is happening in our country exactly, about how many and which migrants are here," he stressed.
The minister also said that the migrants staying in Greece had to be given the right to work so that they would not turn to crime, prompting right-wing MPs to point out that this would be like extending an invitation to illegal migrants to come to Greece.
***
Un interessante esperimento di contrasto all'evasione contributiva e previdenziale.
The announcement was made by Labour and Social Insurance Minister George Koutroumanis in Parliament, while briefing a cross-party committee on the findings of a report on the problem of illegal migration.
Under the new system, employers will not pay for such services in cash but in coupons they have paid for in advance, which the recipient will then be able to cash in. The coupons will be available at 600 sale points around the country, with the employer paying the price agreed with the worker for his or her services.
Under the new system, the coupons will be the only legal way to pay for work done for households or individuals, as opposed to business concerns.
The 'work coupons' will originally be supplied by banks and post offices, with plans to also extend distribution to super markets later on. Some super markets have even informed the labour ministry that they might include the new work coupons in their systems of special offers to consumers, based on consumption.
The measure is chiefly designed to ensure that economic migrants, who often find informal employment in homes and farm work, can easily and simply pay social insurance contributions and thus qualify for health care and pensions. The measure is not restricted only to migrant workers but anyone providing work on a less formal basis.
Giving examples, the minister said this form of payment will also be used for at-home calls by hairdressers, private lessons, gardeners or those working on a short-term, temporary basis, such as waiters or singers that appear for one or two nights.
Koutroumanis said the measure was chosen because it would be convenient for both employers and workers, especially in agricultural work where there was extensive contribution-evasion and tax evasion.
The only requirement would be a social insurance number (AMKA) of the employer and employed, with social insurance fund contributions withheld when employees cashed their coupons.
The minister also announced that a draft bill incorporating Community regulations on illegal employment into national law will be ready by the end of August. This will include harsh penalties for those illegally employing migrants, including jail sentences of up to six months for repeat offenders.
He also informed the committee that the ministry had already commission a 'migrant map' for Attica and Thessaloniki in order to determine the "qualitative and quantitative" features of the migrant population and adopt the right policies.
"It is very important for us to have a picture of what is happening in our country exactly, about how many and which migrants are here," he stressed.
The minister also said that the migrants staying in Greece had to be given the right to work so that they would not turn to crime, prompting right-wing MPs to point out that this would be like extending an invitation to illegal migrants to come to Greece.
***
Un interessante esperimento di contrasto all'evasione contributiva e previdenziale.
- Stato