Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
.....visto che ci tengo
Nobody's
Γένοιο οἷος εἷ
tommy271
Forumer storico
Buttozzo, la Grecia ha riserve per andare avanti qualche mese.
Tutti i soldi sinora elargiti dalla Troika sono serviti a ripagare le scadenze sul debito.
Più tempo passa e più questo debito finirà in mano ad istituzionali, non certo al retail dato che la Grecia non emette titoli del debito pubblico e i movimenti sul retail (italiano, tedesco, greco) li conosciamo.
Il prossimo piano, approvato a luglio, renderà questo percorso ancora più lineare: il carico si sposterà sempre di più sugli organismi internazionali.
Con lo swap la Grecia potrà togliersi di torno il debito sino al 2020 per rinviarlo al 2041.
A questo punto gli oneri, sino al 2015, saranno solo sul rendimento cedolare.
Gli aiuti internazionali andranno ripagati a partire dal 2025.
Direi una posizione invidiabile
.Non saprei se la BCE aderirà allo swap, credo piuttosto che si adopererà insieme all'EFSF per agevolare le operazioni per un buy-back.
Gli interessi dei paesi arabi credo stiano passando in secondo piano, una prova sono i famosi 5 MLD del Qatar da impiegarsi nell'economia greca che stentano ad avere una collocazione.
L'asse della politica estera mediorientale si sta spostando verso israele e su nuove vie di approvvigionamento energetico.
La Russia potrebbe fare molto, ma sinora si è mossa poco.
La Cina ha fatto molto, ma potrebbe fare ancora di più.
Da un punto di vista internazionale non possiamo dire che la Grecia sia lasciata al suo destino.
g.ln
Triplo Panico: comprare
I fatti e gli Eurobond
Quelli indicati da Tommy nel post qui sopra sono semplicementi i fatti. Forse partire dai fatti, può essere la forza dei nostri commenti e delle nostre opinioni!
Riporto dichiarazione Tremonti su Eurobond:
Rimini, 27 ago. (TMNews) - Il tempo degli Eurobond "sta arrivando", sono uno strumento che non conviene soltanto a Spagna e a Italia. Lo ha detto il ministro dell'Economia, Giulio Tremonti, dal Meeting di Comunione e liberazone a Rimini. "Ci sono delle idee che aspettano il loro tempo e il tempo degli Eurobond sta arrivando - ha detto Tremonti -. Oggi sento dire che sono un'idea che non può andare perché conviene solo alla Spagna e all'Italia". Questo, secondo il ministro, "è un commento non appropriato" perché gli Eurobond "sono uno strumento di consolidamento fiscale per la moneta comune, per il finanziamento futuro nella prospettiva di crescita". "Gli investimenti pubblici per il bene comune - ha aggiunto Tremonti - sono la vera terza gamba su cui si regge il tavolo".
Ciao, ciao, Giuseppe
Quelli indicati da Tommy nel post qui sopra sono semplicementi i fatti. Forse partire dai fatti, può essere la forza dei nostri commenti e delle nostre opinioni! Riporto dichiarazione Tremonti su Eurobond:
Rimini, 27 ago. (TMNews) - Il tempo degli Eurobond "sta arrivando", sono uno strumento che non conviene soltanto a Spagna e a Italia. Lo ha detto il ministro dell'Economia, Giulio Tremonti, dal Meeting di Comunione e liberazone a Rimini. "Ci sono delle idee che aspettano il loro tempo e il tempo degli Eurobond sta arrivando - ha detto Tremonti -. Oggi sento dire che sono un'idea che non può andare perché conviene solo alla Spagna e all'Italia". Questo, secondo il ministro, "è un commento non appropriato" perché gli Eurobond "sono uno strumento di consolidamento fiscale per la moneta comune, per il finanziamento futuro nella prospettiva di crescita". "Gli investimenti pubblici per il bene comune - ha aggiunto Tremonti - sono la vera terza gamba su cui si regge il tavolo".
Ciao, ciao, Giuseppe
tommy271
Forumer storico
Venizelos senses opportunity for consenus
Foreign minister admits economy is in the doldrums but calls on parties not to stoke negative climate
In an attempt to build on the political consensus surrounding this week’s university reforms, Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos on Friday called for Greece’s parties to show similar understanding on economic policy despite admitting that the economy will shrink by more than 4.5 percent this year.
Speaking in Parliament, Venizelos attempted to strike a note of harmony as he delivered ominous news about Greece’s economic prospects.
“We need a common national line,” he said. “We are shooting ourselves in the foot by creating a climate of fear and insecurity in which nobody will invest. Consensus, even if it is by small steps helps the country.”
Venizelos was responding to criticism of the government’s economic policies from Alexis Tsipras, the leader of the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), who accused the finance minister of sticking to an austerity program “that will lead to catastrophe.”
Tsipras also decried Venizelos’s assertion that he would attempt to “renegotiate” Greece’s macroeconomic targets with its lenders after admitting that Athens is unlikely to meet its goals for this year. The government had been aiming for a budget deficit of 7.6 percent of GDP this year from 10.5 last year.
“Hell cannot be renegotiated because it is hell,” said Tsipras. “The medium-term fiscal plan will lead us to social bankruptcy.”
Venizelos, who also admitted that this year’s recession would be deeper than previously expected and that growth would not be certain next year either, told Tsipras that there was still hope for Greece.
“Between hell and paradise, there is purgatory,” he said. “When you are there you have the hope that if you behave appropriately, you will go to heaven. This is where we are now.”
Commentators pointed out that apart from the exchange with Tsipras, there was little criticism of Venizelos and the government, particularly from the ranks of New Democracy and the Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS). Tsipras reacted to the apparent silence from the conservative and nationalist parties by saying “something is cooking here.”
Sources said SYRIZA and the Communist Party (KKE) believe that PASOK, ND and LAOS are aiming to find more common ground as a precursor to forming a coalition government.
ekathimerini.com , Friday August 26, 2011 (21:58)
***
Poltica interna.
Foreign minister admits economy is in the doldrums but calls on parties not to stoke negative climate
Speaking in Parliament, Venizelos attempted to strike a note of harmony as he delivered ominous news about Greece’s economic prospects.
“We need a common national line,” he said. “We are shooting ourselves in the foot by creating a climate of fear and insecurity in which nobody will invest. Consensus, even if it is by small steps helps the country.”
Venizelos was responding to criticism of the government’s economic policies from Alexis Tsipras, the leader of the Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA), who accused the finance minister of sticking to an austerity program “that will lead to catastrophe.”
Tsipras also decried Venizelos’s assertion that he would attempt to “renegotiate” Greece’s macroeconomic targets with its lenders after admitting that Athens is unlikely to meet its goals for this year. The government had been aiming for a budget deficit of 7.6 percent of GDP this year from 10.5 last year.
“Hell cannot be renegotiated because it is hell,” said Tsipras. “The medium-term fiscal plan will lead us to social bankruptcy.”
Venizelos, who also admitted that this year’s recession would be deeper than previously expected and that growth would not be certain next year either, told Tsipras that there was still hope for Greece.
“Between hell and paradise, there is purgatory,” he said. “When you are there you have the hope that if you behave appropriately, you will go to heaven. This is where we are now.”
Commentators pointed out that apart from the exchange with Tsipras, there was little criticism of Venizelos and the government, particularly from the ranks of New Democracy and the Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS). Tsipras reacted to the apparent silence from the conservative and nationalist parties by saying “something is cooking here.”
Sources said SYRIZA and the Communist Party (KKE) believe that PASOK, ND and LAOS are aiming to find more common ground as a precursor to forming a coalition government.
ekathimerini.com , Friday August 26, 2011 (21:58)
***
Poltica interna.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Riporto dichiarazione Tremonti su Eurobond:
Rimini, 27 ago. (TMNews) - Il tempo degli Eurobond "sta arrivando", sono uno strumento che non conviene soltanto a Spagna e a Italia. Lo ha detto il ministro dell'Economia, Giulio Tremonti, dal Meeting di Comunione e liberazone a Rimini. "Ci sono delle idee che aspettano il loro tempo e il tempo degli Eurobond sta arrivando - ha detto Tremonti -. Oggi sento dire che sono un'idea che non può andare perché conviene solo alla Spagna e all'Italia". Questo, secondo il ministro, "è un commento non appropriato" perché gli Eurobond "sono uno strumento di consolidamento fiscale per la moneta comune, per il finanziamento futuro nella prospettiva di crescita". "Gli investimenti pubblici per il bene comune - ha aggiunto Tremonti - sono la vera terza gamba su cui si regge il tavolo".
Ciao, ciao, Giuseppe
Prima o poi, qualcosa si farà.
Non credo però che l'ora degli eurobond sia così vicina.
La Merkel non riuscirebbe a farli digerire, in questo momento alla Germania.
Possono essere una bandiera, una posizione da sventolare ma la trattativa deve andare su altre direzioni.
In questo caso il rafforzamento dell'EFSF deve essere prioritario e fondamentale. E questo, è quello che si sta facendo.
Per quanto riguarda noi bondisti, non credo neppure che questi eurobond possano essere la medicina per risolvere i guai.
Non vorrei che questi nuovi titoli possano poi soprassedere sui nostri BTP, retrocedendo l'attuale circolante ad una ruolo secondario.
buttozzo
Forumer storico
rileggevo adesso l'inizio delle nostre discussini sulla grecia quando il rating era A ED ERA stata declassata ad a- c'era un articolo sul sole 24 ore che gia' postava che la grecia era sull'orlo del fallimento era datato meta' 2009 quanto tempo e' passato qunti post quanta gente che non interviene piu' mastromarino lollofanki foli sl66 ecc ecc e parecchi di noi ancora qua' a scrivere e combattere in che bella storia ci siamo ficcati e noi siamo ancora qua' il finale non si sa' ancora pero' si e' creata tra di noi una bella unione speriamo in un futuro non tanto prossimo di poterci trovare tutti assieme per 1 bella mangiata e bevuta ciao a tutti vado a letto dopo la notte di ieri sera mi tocca un'altra notte stasera ciao
frmaoro
il Fankazzista
lo so fratello questo ci ha salvato la vita pensa ai loss che avremmo se non avessimo rispettato questa semplice ma utilissima regola dei 50Sono daccordo con te fratellino
tommy271
Forumer storico
Gov’t issues bond rollover threat
Swap deal is off unless 90 percent of Greek bondholders in the private sector commit to it
Athens wrote to its eurozone peers on Friday suggesting that it would not proceed with the debt swap plan that is essential for its second bailout package unless it secures the participation of at least 90 percent of holders of its bonds in the private sector.
The threat from the Greek Finance Ministry came in the wake of estimates that private sector participation -- amounting to no more than 70 percent at the moment -- in the rollover plan agreed by the eurozone on July 21 could be facing delays.
A senior banker suggested on Friday that the letter was meant to be an invitation to banks to declare by September 9 their non-binding interest in the bond swap. “After September 9 there will be a formal invitation to declare binding interest to participate, by early October,” he told Reuters.
However, the threat to scrap a debt exchange will probably not trigger derivatives insuring the nation’s bonds because the offer is still voluntary, according to David Geen of the International Swaps & Derivatives Association.
“The offer has to be binding on all holders to be coercive and trigger the credit-default swaps and I don’t think this does that,” Geen told Bloomberg. “True, there’s a 90 percent threshold but some holders may not care. They may take the view that if Greece fails to pay eventually, they have protection through the CDS.”
The Euro Working Group, consisting of high-level officials from the 17 eurozone members’ finance ministries, was to discuss yesterday the issue of collaterals required by Finland for its participation to the second bailout for Greece agreed to last month.
Helsinki stressed yesterday it considered “non-negotiable” the provision of guarantees by Greece. “This remains a criterion for our participation in the plan for Greece,” a Finnish Finance Ministry official said on Friday on condition of anonymity.
The Financial Times reported on Friday that the group would discuss a proposal about Greece supplying non-financial forms of collateral for the loans from all eurozone members. The collaterals could be in the form of real estate or stakes in state companies and credit institutions.
ekathimerini.com , Friday August 26, 2011 (22:32)
Swap deal is off unless 90 percent of Greek bondholders in the private sector commit to it
The threat from the Greek Finance Ministry came in the wake of estimates that private sector participation -- amounting to no more than 70 percent at the moment -- in the rollover plan agreed by the eurozone on July 21 could be facing delays.
A senior banker suggested on Friday that the letter was meant to be an invitation to banks to declare by September 9 their non-binding interest in the bond swap. “After September 9 there will be a formal invitation to declare binding interest to participate, by early October,” he told Reuters.
However, the threat to scrap a debt exchange will probably not trigger derivatives insuring the nation’s bonds because the offer is still voluntary, according to David Geen of the International Swaps & Derivatives Association.
“The offer has to be binding on all holders to be coercive and trigger the credit-default swaps and I don’t think this does that,” Geen told Bloomberg. “True, there’s a 90 percent threshold but some holders may not care. They may take the view that if Greece fails to pay eventually, they have protection through the CDS.”
The Euro Working Group, consisting of high-level officials from the 17 eurozone members’ finance ministries, was to discuss yesterday the issue of collaterals required by Finland for its participation to the second bailout for Greece agreed to last month.
Helsinki stressed yesterday it considered “non-negotiable” the provision of guarantees by Greece. “This remains a criterion for our participation in the plan for Greece,” a Finnish Finance Ministry official said on Friday on condition of anonymity.
The Financial Times reported on Friday that the group would discuss a proposal about Greece supplying non-financial forms of collateral for the loans from all eurozone members. The collaterals could be in the form of real estate or stakes in state companies and credit institutions.
ekathimerini.com , Friday August 26, 2011 (22:32)
tommy271
Forumer storico
Finnish PM urges swift decision on Greece collateral-report
HELSINKI | Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:47am EDT
HELSINKI Aug 27 (Reuters) - A dispute over a model for collateral from Greece in exchange for loans has to be solved as quickly as possible to prevent more inconvenience to Athens and other countries, the Finnish prime minister was quoted as saying on Saturday.
Finland is standing by a demand for collateral as an absolute precondition for new loans to Greece and made a deal with the debt-laden country earlier this month. But it was rejected by other euro area countries.
Talks on a new collateral model continue, the newspaper said.
"This mater has to be solved as soon as possible so Finland's aims will not hurt other countries," Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen said in an interview with the daily newspaper, Helsingin Sanomat.
He added it was clear the collateral hurdle would dent Finland's reputation in the European Union and said it was in the interest of the Nordic country to maximise its influence.
Katainen said his six-party government, formed in mid-June, was still learning how to work together. The cabinet will get next year's budget on its plate in September and Katainen urged the parties to stick to a budget framework set by finance ministry.
HELSINKI | Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:47am EDT
HELSINKI Aug 27 (Reuters) - A dispute over a model for collateral from Greece in exchange for loans has to be solved as quickly as possible to prevent more inconvenience to Athens and other countries, the Finnish prime minister was quoted as saying on Saturday.
Finland is standing by a demand for collateral as an absolute precondition for new loans to Greece and made a deal with the debt-laden country earlier this month. But it was rejected by other euro area countries.
Talks on a new collateral model continue, the newspaper said.
"This mater has to be solved as soon as possible so Finland's aims will not hurt other countries," Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen said in an interview with the daily newspaper, Helsingin Sanomat.
He added it was clear the collateral hurdle would dent Finland's reputation in the European Union and said it was in the interest of the Nordic country to maximise its influence.
Katainen said his six-party government, formed in mid-June, was still learning how to work together. The cabinet will get next year's budget on its plate in September and Katainen urged the parties to stick to a budget framework set by finance ministry.
- Stato
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