Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1 (4 lettori)

Stato
Chiusa ad ulteriori risposte.

russiabond

Il mito, la leggenda.
Facendo così sei entrato ufficialmente nelle nostre posizioni, tralasciando la tua :D.....
...e questo è un male fratello :lol:

Ritengo invece che la tua posizione, anche se molto speculatica, sia esatta.
E per questo che comincio a salire pian piano sulla maggio 12.......fermo restante che le mie posizioni, e quelle di frmaoro, sono sotto i 50, credo sia la miglior strategia :D

La formula utilizzata da molti qui.... ciòè lossare alla stragrande non mi affascina molto :lol:......senza sapere poi come va a finire la storia :lol:

I loss/minus non si vedono, ma ci sono :D.

Inutile dire che proprio non è la mia strada.......anche se in certi contesti può essere una strategia vincente........ma in grecia nutro seri dubbi :lol:

Tiro dritto per la mia strada......

Te sali pian pianino ...io esco o entro ....il pian pianino lo lascio a te io sono All In di brutto in una botta...:lol:E ricordati che io levereggio ...cioè ho SOLDI NON MIEI ....e non pochi in percentuale del portafoglio ...quindi per evitare di ritrovarmi per l'ennesima volta sulla panchina come dice GAudente tra l'altro sarebbe la 3^ volta :sad:( prendo gli opportuni provvedimenti) ...non sono uscito dalla Grecia ...sto aumentando il nominale da 560k€ a 700/750k€ ....;)

ciao 500 dollari non sono d'accordo tu pensi che le banche abbiano venduto al retail? non scherziamo semmai a qualche fondo speculativo noi abbiamo 1 piccolissima quota di bond neanche ci cagano l'unica cosa da fare e che faccessero questo benedetto allungamento delle scafenze e subito sul secondario comprarsi il debito tramite efs vorrei vedere quanti di noi se li comprassero a 65 non li venderebbero e poi piano di privatizzazione e 1 altra manovrina per rientrare nei parametri debito pil ciao tommy ottobre e' vicino ciao tommy

questa è una mossa giusta Buy Back sul secondario entro dicembre 2012 a 65 ...incasso e vado da altre parti ....media a 56/58 faccio 50k€ netti ...e del domani non v'è certezza ...con il 2012 a 76 se ti buybackano 65 te la pigli dritta dritta nel c&lo....:lol:;)

Di questi tempi la velocità e la flessibilità sono essenziali ...se non va o diventa pericoloso il 2012 ...passo al 2013-14 a 51/55....dov'è il problema ....il problema è restare immobili sulle propie posizioni da 80 - 100 o 90 e vendere a 50 ...questa si chiama "trombata" ....siamo qui ...spero tutti per guadagnare soldi ...non per far vedere chi c'è la più duro:lol:...se dormi qui ti stendono ...quindi se il vento cambia quelllo che dico adesso domani o stasera non è più valido ....io alla fine penso ancora di tirare fuori bei soldi dalla Grecia ...e comunque se rimanevo in P.D.V.S.A. tra il cambio $ e la discesa del titolo perdevo forse di più...se poi avessi le perpetue ...in generale stanno solo perdendo TUTTE) e non del 7-8..% quindi ...velocità e flessibilità...e ocio ai cetrioli...:D
 
Ultima modifica:

tommy271

Forumer storico
Situation in Greece ‘Remains Serious,’ Germany’s Schaeuble Says

By Jeff Black and Brian Parkin - Aug 27, 2011 12:29 PM GMT+0200

Sat Aug 27 10:29:36 GMT 2011




German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said the budgetary situation in Greece “remains serious.”
Euro region states that have tapped aid to ease their debt woes still need time for economic and financial reforms to take effect, Schaeuble said today in a speech in St. Gallen, Switzerland. Heaping up further sovereign debt will stunt economic growth rather than stimulate economies, he said.
The global economy, impacted by debt problems from the U.S. to Europe and Japan, may face as much as seven “lean years,” Schaeuble added.



(Bloomberg)
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Greek Notes Slump on Concern Aid Deal Will Fail; Bunds Decline

By Emma Charlton and Keith Jenkins - Aug 27, 2011 8:30 AM GMT+0200 Sat Aug 27 06:30:00 GMT 2011



Greek two-year notes slumped, pushing yields to a euro-era record of 45.91 percent this week, on concern Finland’s demands for loan collateral will endanger the nation’s second bailout package and trigger a default.
German 10-year bonds fell for the first week in five as European equities posted a weekly gain, damping demand for the relative safety of government debt. Italian 10-year bonds completed their first weekly loss since the European Central Bank began buying the securities to stem contagion from the sovereign debt crisis. Italy, Spain and France are scheduled to auction debt next week.
“With the demands for collateral deals in return for loans to Greece, the risk of the rescue package not being realized has increased quite significantly,” said Niels From, chief analyst at Nordea Bank AB in Copenhagen. “The market is now doubting that there will be a rescue package and Greek bonds have been punished.”
Greece’s two-year yields rose 6.17 percentage points to 43.94 percent as of 5:27 p.m. in London yesterday, that’s the biggest ever weekly increase. Yields reached a euro-era record on Aug 25. The nation’s 10-year bonds climbed 1.21 percentage points to 17.86 percent. They reached 18.55 percent on Aug. 25, also the highest since the euro was introduced in 1999.
Euro-area governments are “looking for a solution” to the dispute over collateral for further aid to Greece, Bertrand Benoit, a German Finance Ministry spokesman said yesterday.

Greek Aid

Greece is seeking a second aid package as its economic woes stymied its intention to return to the capital markets in 2012. Austria and the Netherlands -- which like Finland have AAA credit ratings -- said they wanted a similar collateral deal in return for providing more aid, as did Slovakia and Slovenia.
Germany’s 10-year bund yield increased five basis points this week to 2.16 percent, after climbing to a one-week high of 2.28 percent on Aug. 28. The benchmark Stoxx Europe 600 Index rose 1.1 percent over the five trading days.
Ten-year bund yields have still dropped 38 basis points this month as investors sought the relative safety of government debt as global equity markets plummeted on signs the U.S. economy -- the world’s largest -- is faltering.
Italian 10-year bond yields gained 14 basis points this week rising to 5.07 percent, while Spain’s 10-year yields climbed four basis points to 5 percent.

ECB Buying

The ECB has bought government bonds in each of the past three weeks in a bid to stave off contagion from Greece, Ireland and Portugal and bring 10-year yields from Spain and Italy to around 5 percent. Yields of both nations’ debt surged to euro- era records at the start of this month.
Italy plans to sell 8 billion euros ($11.5 billion) of debt maturing in 2014, 2018 and 2022 on Aug. 30. On Sept. 1, Spain will auction bonds due in 2016 and France will offer securities maturing in 2016, 2021 and 2041.
“After the summer break we are starting to see supply pick up again,” Nordea’s From said. “It will be very interesting to see how the auctions will be digested by the market.”
German government bonds have handed investors a gain of 5.5 percent this year through yesterday, according to indexes compiled by the European Federation of Financial Analysts Societies and Bloomberg. Greece’s have declined 23 percent, Italy’s have gained 0.6 percent and Spain’s have increased 5.4 percent, the indexes show.

(Bloomberg)

***
Andamento dei bond nell'eurozona.
 

tommy271

Forumer storico
Non è trapelato ancora nulla dalla videoconferenza di ieri sera dell'eurozona in cui si discuteva della questione finlandese ed altre vicende.
La chiusura di ieri sera sugli spread dei nostri titoli rimane intorno ai max, seppur in apparente staticità.
Mantiene il recupero l'Irlanda mentre nuove crescenti pressioni investono i paesi iberici e l'Italia.
Le prossime aste dei BTP per circa 8 MLD e quelle spagnole focalizzeranno l'attenzione degli investitori.

Grecia 1614 pb. (1603)
Portogallo 925 pb. (907)
Irlanda 673 pb. (679)
Italia 293 pb. (288)
Spagna 289 pb. (282)
Belgio 178 pb. (176)
 

stefanofabb

GAIN/Welcome
valutazione reale minus

Cerchiamo di riequilibrarci tutti...restituiamo quella autorevolezza conquistata dal thd in tutti questi mesi grazie al contributi dei forumisti e riconosciuta anche dal Sole24ore. Tutti possono esprimere le loro opinioni ma stando attenti a non confezionare sentenze il cui esito credo sia sconosciuto ai più, si devono fare ipotesi argomentate su cui innestare il dibattito di cui si nutre il nostro bel forum. Tutto il resto lasciamolo fuori perchè nuocerebbe alla lucidità e all'equilibrio, doti che ogni buon investitore dovrebbe avere anche nei momenti di triplo panico. :cool:
si Baro.. è altrettanto vero però che se un investitore accorto e sicuro di se non potrebbe iniziare a lossare,swithare e saltare da una parte all'altra avendo questi strumenti in portafoglio e/o altri molto speculativi, per generare perdita.dal momento che una situazione rimane attiva e non di default, con flussi cedolari regolari, la parte nominale la esonero in toto ,non la guardo e ne sono capace..sarebbe un errore che costerebbe caro e non risolverei e per recuperare in fretta e furia, finirei per fare errori ancor più grossi ,sentendomi tradito nell'orgoglio.. è una regola fondamentale!;) .il mio modo di vedere è di mantenere la posizione e aspettare,ciao Stefano
 
Ultima modifica:

giub

New Membro
Greek Banks' Liquidity Is Suffering As Nervous Clients Withdraw Savings

ATHENS—Greece's worsening slump is threatening to compound another risk for the country: the steady withdrawal of money from Greek banks.
In the last 20 months, the country's banks have suffered an unprecedented withdrawal of customer deposits. Tens of thousands of Greeks—from the well-heeled to the less well-off—have moved their savings out of the country or stashed the cash in safe-deposit boxes or under a mattress, bankers say.

BTN_insetClose.gif

WO-AG811A_GRBAN_G_20110825185704.jpg


The consequence for many Greek banks is a growing shortage of liquidity that is increasing their reliance on emergency funding from the European Central Bank and forcing them to further cut lending to businesses. That, in turn, is deepening Greece's recession, making it harder for the government to narrow its gaping budget deficit.
Speculation that the government might default on its debt, pushing the banking system into insolvency, is fueling such withdrawals. In addition, many Greek households, under financial pressure, simply need their cash reserves to make ends meet.
Economists say there are signs that bank deposits have stabilized in recent weeks, following the latest European bailout deal for Greece reached in July. But amid a worsening economic outlook, analysts say they doubt the calm will last.
Greek government officials warned on Friday that the struggling economy could contract more than 5% this year, rather than about 3.8%, as Greece's finance minister predicted on July 1. That gloomy outlook is likely to increase fears of national bankruptcy as well as personal financial pressures, economists say.
The flight of funds abroad reflect fears of a Greek banking collapse, says Yiannis Stournaras, director general of the Foundation for Economic and Industrial Research, an Athens think tank. Such fears are "unfounded," he says, because Greek banks are now under the protection of the ECB as well as the euro zone's bailout fund.

Still, he says, "the greatest part of the Greek banks' deposit outflows are due to the recession, as individuals and companies have run down deposits to finance their needs and pay down loans." Adds Mr. Stournaras, "A growing number of unemployed people have also used up their savings."
The outflow of deposits from Greek banks began in late 2009, soon after Greece's new Socialist administration revealed that the government budget deficit was far bigger than the departing conservatives had admitted. That triggered a crisis of investor confidence that has since spread to large swaths of the euro zone.
Deposits by households and businesses with Greek banks grew strongly in the years after Greece joined the euro in 2001, peaking at about €238 billion ($343 billion) in September 2009, according to figures from Greece's central bank. Fears of financial meltdown led to steady outflow throughout last year. By January 2011, private-sector deposits at the banks had fallen to €206 billion. By June, they were down to about €188 billion.
About a third of the funds withdrawn from banks have gone abroad, the Greek central bank estimates. One reason, analysts say, is fear of a crackdown on tax evasion, a chronic problem in Greece and one of the sources of the country's fiscal mess.
A number of Greeks have wired their money to banks in places such as Cyprus, Luxembourg, Switzerland and the U.K., said Platon Monokroussos, head of financial-markets research at Eurobank EFG, because of worries "that Greek authorities would require domestic banks to disclose depositors' information for tax-related purposes."
Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos has made repeated appeals in recent weeks for wealthy Greeks and companies to repatriate the money they have sent abroad.
Deposits may have stabilized for the moment, economists say, as the July 21 bailout deal appears to have eased immediate fears of national bankruptcy.
Savers and businesses have become more confident about the stability of the banking system than they were earlier this summer, Mr. Monokroussos says.
But a "sustained reversal in the trend," he says, "would require a stabilization in domestic GDP growth and domestic credit."
Instead, the economy remains in free fall.
Concerns persist, however. Bankers and customers say banks have seen a surge in demand for safe-deposit boxes, as well as in people taking their savings home with them.
The latter trend has opened opportunities for thieves. Greek media have reported a number of instances of robberies, often targeting the elderly, who may prefer to hide their cash at home in times of trouble.
One unlucky saver who made the headlines recently: A retiree from the island of Crete who, panicked by talk of a government default, (il nostro Amorgos...)withdrew his savings from his bank and hid the cash in the brick wall of his house for safekeeping. Several months later, he found that rats had gnawed their way through tens of thousands of euros, devouring most of his nest egg.
 

giub

New Membro
Greece forced to tap emergency fund

Greece has been forced to activate an obscure emergency fund for its banks because they are running short of collateral that is acceptable to the European Central Bank (ECB).

In a move described as the "last stand for Greek banks", the embattled country's central bank activated Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) for the first time on Wednesday night.

Raoul Ruparel of Open Europe told The Telegraph: "The activation of the so-called ELA looks to be the last stand for Greek banks and suggests they are running alarmingly short of quality collateral usually used to obtain funding."

He added: "This kicks off another huge round of nearly worthless assets being shifted from the books of private banks onto books backed by taxpayers. Combined with the purchases of Spanish and Italian bonds, the already questionable balance sheet of the euro system is looking increasingly risky."

Although it was done discreetly, news that Athens had opened the fund filtered out and was one of the factors that rattled markets across Europe. At one point Germany's Dax was down 4pc before it recovered. In London, bank stocks - which have been punished by traders nervous about the European debt crisis - fell again.

In a bid to curb the falls regulators in Italy, France, Spain and Belgium extended their short-selling bans. Although it was designed to support European banks, experts in London reacted angrily to the move, claiming that regulators were wrongly targeting hedge funds.

Andrew Baker, chief executive of the Alternative Investment Management Association, the hedge fund lobby group, said: "Short-selling was not the reason bank share prices were under pressure and banning it has not relieved that pressure." Richard Payne, a finance academic at the Cass Business School in London, said the restrictions could do more harm than good by increasing volatility and bumping up trading costs. He argued that the moves were an attempt to deflect attention away from the failures of European politicians to come up with convincing solutions to the financial crisis.
Traders argued that the worsening crisis in Greece was the real driver of market concerns. There are particular concerns that the political will to solve the crisis is waning, particularly in Germany.
Athens' activation of the ELA will raise concerns that Greece will simply shift debt to Brussels.
The ELA was designed under European rules to allow national central banks to provide liquidity for their own lenders when they run out of collateral of a quality that can be used to trade with the ECB. It is an obscure tool that is supposed to be temporary and one of the last resorts for indebted banks. So far it has only be used in Ireland.
By accepting a lower level of collateral the debt in the ELA is, in theory, supposed to be the responsibility of Greece. However, since the Greek state is surviving on eurozone bailouts and Greek banks are reliant on ECB funding, in practice the loans are backed by the eurozone. The terms of lending and other details are not disclosed publicly.
Mr Ruparel said: "Though the ELA is meant to be a temporary emergency solution, we know from Ireland, where the programme has been running for almost a year, that once banks get hooked on ELA they rarely get off it."
 
Ultima modifica:

ficodindia

Forumer storico
La regola aurea.

Se un debitore è in default tutti i suoi titoli si appiattiscono ad un prezzo probabile di recupero. I prezzi dei TDS greci registrano ancora una significativa variabilità in funzione della scadenza e del tasso nominale d'interesse. Ad esempio ieri il bond Grecia 4,3% 9/12 ha chiuso a 75,00 mentre Grecia 4,5% 2037 a 38,90, una variabilità di ben 36 punti! E' evidente che tale variabilità rappresenta una manna per la speculazione attraverso operazioni di trading nell'ambito degli stessi titoli assumendosi il relativo rischio. Per il cassettista credo non vi siano rischi se non quelli derivanti da un fallimento dell'euro. L'intervento di oggi, molto convincente, di Tremonti al meeting di Rimini rappresenta un monito per i bottegai: o si fanno gli eurobond oppure non c'è via d'uscita, si badi bene, per nessuno.


"La crisi della Grecia è una crisi profonda, di sistema, ma legata a fattori che appartengono al passato. Il futuro non può essere basato sulle cause che hanno portato alla quella crisi - ha continuato - ma si deve puntare al rigore e alla disciplina".
"Non c’è ancora il game over della crisi".
"L’unico modo per investire sul nostro futuro è quello degli eurobond".
"È difficile dire che la Germania ha perso, ha pagato un prezzo, forse è stato esattamente il contrario".
http://www.ilgiornale.it/interni/a_...-08-2011/articolo-id=542250-page=0-comments=1
 
Ultima modifica:

EDESMO

GGB: Est!, Est?, Est.....
A me sembra di aver capito, ma vorrei delle conferme in merito, che non convenga fare adesso questo genere di operazioni se si considera l'aspetto fiscale.
Le perdite ante 2012 verranno conteggiate al 62,5%, quindi se si vuole vendere in perdita converrebbe farlo a gennaio quando la minus verrà calcolata al 100%
ai fini dell'imposta per i GGB non cambia nulla
l'aliquota passa al 20 con peso 62,5 cioè uguale a prima!
 
Stato
Chiusa ad ulteriori risposte.

Users who are viewing this thread

Alto