Obbligazioni societarie GM, Ford, Chrysler: il 3D dell'automotive USA (2 lettori)

stockuccio

Guest
questa storia dei cds mi ha sempre intrigato fin dai tempi di Lehman ... nel caso Lehman si dice ne esistessero più del debito ... 400 miliardi circa contro credo intorno a 130 di titoli di debito (Paologorgo mi correggerà ), insomma anche chi non aveva ittoli ha partecipato alle scommesse, tutti speculatori insomma .... è impossibile che tutti allo stesso tempo siano in grado di adempiere agli impegni presi ... ora su GM ho riportato uno che diceva che anche in questo caso i cds esistenti sono diverse volte i debiti emessi :D ... mi piacerebbe sapere come sistemano i conti :) ... ma non riesco
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
questa storia dei cds mi ha sempre intrigato fin dai tempi di Lehman ... nel caso Lehman si dice ne esistessero più del debito ... 400 miliardi circa contro credo intorno a 130 di titoli di debito (Paologorgo mi correggerà ), insomma anche chi non aveva ittoli ha partecipato alle scommesse, tutti speculatori insomma .... è impossibile che tutti allo stesso tempo siano in grado di adempiere agli impegni presi ... ora su GM ho riportato uno che diceva che anche in questo caso i cds esistenti sono diverse volte i debiti emessi :D ... mi piacerebbe sapere come sistemano i conti :) ... ma non riesco

come ti dicevo, è un campo che non seguo, se non superficialmente. Tendo a guardare al netto, perchè se io dico di vantare un credito (o debito...) di un fantastiliardo con te, e tu uno equivalente di un fantastiliardo e 10 dollari con me, alla fine si muovono 10 dollari. Quello mi pare interessante sapere.

Io non so neanche bene a quali fonti rivolgermi per questi dati... ma in questo caso (GM) di imprevisto c'è bene poco... e dubito emergeranno grosse sorprese...
 

stockuccio

Guest
come ti dicevo, è un campo che non seguo, se non superficialmente. Tendo a guardare al netto, perchè se io dico di vantare un credito (o debito...) di un fantastiliardo con te, e tu uno equivalente di un fantastiliardo e 10 dollari con me, alla fine si muovono 10 dollari. Quello mi pare interessante sapere.

Io non so neanche bene a quali fonti rivolgermi per questi dati... ma in questo caso (GM) di imprevisto c'è bene poco... e dubito emergeranno grosse sorprese...

come sai sono molto più malfidato di te e per me il problema è proprio quello che emerge :) ... DTCC diceva per Lehman 72 l'esistente e poco più di 5 il netto ... il problema è che tutti dicevano 400 prima della DTCC che per sua stessa ammissione non gestisce tutto il mercato dei cds ... ora una trentina di esistente e 2 di netto ... io tra la DTCC e Das che dice diverse volte il debito scelgo il secondo e cerco di capire chi ci sta perdendo e non si dice ... penso ad esempio al fuori bilancio che hanno le banche, sai quei 900 miliardi di assets che a novembre si dovrebbe almeno vedere che roba è dopo essere già stati considerati nello stress test :) ... e con addirittura effetti benefici :D:D ... straordinario
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
continuando il discorso con Gaudente... guardiamo i livelli produttivi per area geografica... per capire la nuova GM dove si posizionerà come capacità produttiva... (elaborazione Gridstone):
 

Allegati

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Gaudente

Forumer storico
continuando il discorso con Gaudente... guardiamo i livelli produttivi per area geografica... per capire la nuova GM dove si posizionerà come capacità produttiva... (elaborazione Gridstone):
Non e' una questione di capacita' produttiva, ma di calo del fatturato. GM in nord America sta vendendo circa il 50% in meno rispetto all'anno scorso , sara' necessario chiudere molti stabilimenti e concessionari.
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
GM bondholders near deadline to accept new offer

* Bondholders have until 5 p.m. EDT/2100 GMT to take deal
* GM expected to file for bankruptcy on Monday

By Poornima Gupta
DETROIT, May 30 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N) will find out on Saturday if investors holding $27 billion in the automaker's bonds will accept an exchange offer as it races to tie up loose ends before a bankruptcy filing next week.
Success of the new debt-to-equity swap would help in reducing GM's creditor list and ensure that the embattled automaker's time in U.S. bankruptcy court is short.
Bondholders have until 5 p.m. EDT/2100 GMT on Saturday to register their support for the deal, which would give them up to 25 percent of a reorganized GM. That offer, however, could be canceled if too few bondholders sign on in support.
The new, sweetened deal for the bondholders -- a 10 percent stake in the reorganized GM and warrants for another 15 percent stake -- already has the support of investors representing at least 35 percent of GM's bonds.
"The warrants and the improved capital structure make for an improved recovery for bondholders," Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson said. "In terms of the bankruptcy process, we expect the likely bondholder assent to smooth the process."
Under the new offer, bondholders have a recovery of around 9 cents on the dollar, up from an estimate of zero to 5 cents under the previous offer, Johnson said.
GM bondholders last week rejected a proposal that would have given them a 10 percent stake in a reorganized GM.
The automaker on Friday got a boost when the United Auto Workers union (UAW) overwhelmingly ratified a new cost-cutting labor agreement with GM, clearing a major hurdle in the automaker's restructuring efforts.
GM is expected to file for Chapter 11 protection on Monday and President Barack Obama will likely discuss the next steps in its reorganization at that time.
ON A DEADLINE
In late March, the Obama administration put the automaker on 60-day notice to restructure the company and clinch concessionary deals with its union and bondholders even as it pumped $19.4 billion in emergency funds to keep the company afloat.
The White House said on Friday that rival Chrysler's bankruptcy proceedings demonstrate the possibility of an orderly restructuring of a major U.S. carmaker and could be a model for GM.
Expectations that the automaker would file under Chapter 11 of the U.S. bankruptcy code rose after GM said Chief Executive Fritz Henderson would host a news conference Monday in New York.
A bankruptcy filing by GM would rank as the third-largest bankruptcy in U.S. history and one of the largest and most complex manufacturing bankruptcies.
GM's bankruptcy is likely to hurt the entire industry -- including rival Ford Motor Co (F.N) and suppliers, many of whom are already struggling to survive as GM's purchasing budget runs to about $94 billion annually.
"The real question is what's going to happen to the supply base now," Dennis Virag, president of Michigan-based Automotive Consulting Group, said.
A filing by GM could also hurt U.S. consumer confidence, which has been ticking up in the past few months, he added.
GM has struggled in recent years to compete, hurt by its truck and SUV-dominated vehicle line-up and a deep plunge in U.S. vehicle demand.
The automaker has lost $82 billion in the past four years even as it continued to cut excess production capacity, jobs and dispose of assets, including brands.
Since 2000, GM has slashed over 100,000 jobs in the United States and plans to cut another 19,000 U.S. jobs by 2012 to bring total U.S. employment to about 72,500.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN3044658620090530?rpc=44
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
Barring divine intervention come Monday, GM will be in bankruptcy and probably around the end of the summer will emerge as a new company owned for all intents and purposes by the U.S. government. Chrysler probably comes out of bankruptcy next week, also under government control.
Given all of that, I thought it a good time to offer a few personal thoughts on the saga.
First, let’s review what the new GM is going to look like. The government will own 72.5% of the company, existing bondholders get 10% and the UAW and its health insurance fund end up with 17.5%. All of these entities have some warrants to buy more stock in the future as well as a few other incidentals that were thrown in for who knows why. GM emerges from bankruptcy with a modest amount of debt — $8 billion — advanced from the government. The taxpayer is putting up about $50 billion give or take a billion here and there in exchange for its equity interest and the $8 billion loan.
Winners
There’s one clear winner here and that’s the UAW. In both Chrysler and GM, the union’s sacrifices have resulted in proportionately larger shares of the companies than were garnered by the other stakeholders. This is somewhat surprising due to the fact that the UAW stood to lose the most in the event either one had been liquidated.
Yes, the union did lose some jobs and future jobs will not be of the gold plated variety but little was truly sacrificed from the standpoint of wages or benefits. The contract still provides salaries and benefits that far exceed what’s available to most workers in the private sector and the union has a big say, some would aver a virtual veto, over future actions that may affect its well being.
Losers
Where to start? Certainly creditors. In the case of Chrysler they were smashed, while in the GM bankruptcy they’re fairing somewhat better. In neither case have they been allowed to play their usual role in the proceedings — we’ll get to that in a second.
Shareholders are wiped out. There was never any alternative for this one. Either liquidation or reorganization spelled the end for them.
You and I as taxpayers are out $50 billion. Whether we get any of it back is an open question. For the time being count it as a loss.
The rule of law took a big hit. In the Chrysler case, the government ran roughshod over normal bankruptcy procedures and used its not insignificant leverage to split apart the creditor group and impose a reorganization plan. The bankruptcy court likewise appeared to fold. In the case of GM, well you can just say that most of the parties looked at Chrysler and got religion.
Our economic system. The entire turn of events will no doubt be one more thing that any investor or lender to large American business is going to consider when making an investment decision. Now that it’s evident that the government will resort to extra-legal solutions to protect industries and/or constituencies a new dynamic has been introduced.
Ford (F) and other competitors are no doubt holding their breath. Having the U.S. government as a competitor tends to put one at somewhat of a disadvantage. It remains to be seen how aggressive a competitor the newly socialized companies will be but don’t bet on shrinking violets.
Will It Work?
I mean this in the sense not of will these companies hang around for a long time but will they truly prosper and pay back everyone. We know they’re not going out of business no matter how badly they do. Their backed by the full faith and credit of the government now.
True profitability is another issue entirely. The government estimates, perhaps rosily. that in five years that GM will be worth $75 billion. That assumes annual industry sales of 16 million units and only a modest reduction in market share from 19.5% to 18.4%. If that turns out to be fact then the implied value of the government’s investment would be $46 billion (there would be some dilution in the governments ownership in five years). You would have to count that as a success.
Those are pretty aggressive projections and there is some reason to doubt it is going to work out quite that well. One indication that not all the players see it turning out so well was the opinion that Ron Gettelfinger, the head of the UAW, offered with respect to the warrants that his union is receiving as part of its package.
The one element of the VEBA that is still up in the air is a warrant for an additional 2.5% in GM stock. In order to attain this stake, GM’s stock needs to hit a market value of $75 billion, a mark it has never reached in decades of being a publicly traded company.
During a press conference, when asked when the 2.5% stake would be available, Mr. Gettelfinger moved close to the microphone attached to his podium, raised his eyebrows and slowly said “$75 billion in equity for the company…we didn’t put a whole lot of emphasis on the 2.5% warrants, let me put it that way.”
Mr. Gettelfinger later said “on the equity warrants, with the company’s equity value being at $75 billion, we sort of (said) that’s over there in the corner somewhere.’ We’re basing everything else on reality.”

For the record the highest market capitalization GM ever achieved was $60 billion about 10 years ago.
Aside from the health of the domestic car market, the cost of complying with new efficiency and carbon mandates from Washington and the overall economy, the approach that the union takes to the companies will ultimately determine their success. If they opt for a business approach that puts profitability ahead of short-term job considerations there is a chance. If their focused on union self-interest the venture is doomed.
Already the signs are not good. Mr. Gettelfinger has gone out of his way to point out that the union does not own the stock of the companies rather the retirement trust fund does. The implication being that they were not going to be constrained by ownership concerns. The union also managed to get GM to drop its plans to manufacture small cars in China and import them for sale in the U.S. and negotiated the retooling of a shuttered factory to do the manufacturing. I haven’t seen the numbers justifying that one!
Bottom line, it may work but the sun, moon and stars are going to have to be in perfect alignment for a long time for that to occur.
Whatever else, the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler represent a watershed event in the history of American politics and business. Had there been a better economy when the two went bust things might have worked out differently but that wasn’t the case. Where it takes us is any one’s guess. Many would say no place good.
More here, here and here.
Update: Apropos to my post above, here is an article from the New York Times assessing the potential for the automobile market over the next few years.
For all the drastic cuts and financial overhauls that are meant to secure a future for General Motors and Chrysler, their prospects in coming years will be determined more by the answer to a simple question: Can American drivers live without that new-car smell?
In recent years Americans appeared to be hooked on it and took advantage ofhome equity loans, easy credit and cheap short-term lease deals to send new-car sales to levels of more than 17 million a year.
Now the market has collapsed by 46 percent to below 10 million, as people are making do with the cars they have, leaving the industry to debate — and worry — about what the new normal will be once the recession ends.
The article is fine as far as it goes but never touches on the prospect for higher gasoline prices which I consider a certainty. There is no longer much of a love affair with cars among the American public and it quickly turns to hate when gas prices rise to the $4 a gallon level. It’s hard to imagine why the industry’s best days aren’t behind it.
Some say the downturn is temporary and that sales will spring back in a few years. Others believe Americans will rethink whether they need so many cars, particularly new ones.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/140444-appraising-the-auto-industry-wreck?source=yahoo
 

Imark

Forumer storico
Questa è bella davvero: il punto di vista di S&P su GMAC :lol:. Liberamente tradotto, dicono: rivediamo l'outlook a developing da negativo perché c'è il sostegno del governo USA, ma se prima o poi questo si stufasse di dare supporto in termini di investimenti (con annesse iniezioni di liquidità) e di garanzie con accesso a programmi di liquidity enhancement, allora sono guai... :D

E' anche vero che se effettivamente il governo USA passasse al 34 e rotti pct delle azioni di GMAC ... certo sono situazioni davvero con pochi precedenti storici, e c'è un passaggio importante, quello in cui un'agenzia come S&P solitamente assai parca con le parole e abituata al più a far leggere fra le righe, dice chiaramente: GMAC non é una istituzione finanziaria che abbia una rilevanza sistemica di sorta, nonostante i soldi messici dentro dallo Stato.

Il che fa venire subito in mente le parole (che credo fossero di Bernanke o di Geithner) in ordine alla messa a punto di meccanismi per fare defaultare ordinatamente le istituzioni finanziarie di grandi dimensioni ma prive di importanza sistemica.

Dunque occhi aperti e mai dimenticare le mutande di ghisa... :cool:

GMAC LLC And Residential Capital LLC Outlooks Revised To Developing From Negative; Ratings Affirmed

-- Government support for GMAC and Residential Capital LLC enhances their prospects as going concerns through the current crisis, but government support could be offset by ongoing fundamental weakness.
-- We are affirming our ratings on GMAC and Residential Capital and revising the outlooks to developing.
-- Possible negative rating pressure remains related to the Chrysler LLC bankruptcy, General Motors' potential bankruptcy, and general and sectoral economic considerations.

NEW YORK (Standard & Poor's) May 26, 2009--Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that it affirmed its 'CCC/C' counterparty credit ratings on GMAC LLC and Residential Capital LLC, its mortgage subsidiary. The outlooks on the ratings for both GMAC LLC and Residential Capital LLC are revised to developing from negative.

"Several actions GMAC LLC has taken in conjunction with the U.S. Treasury (UST), the Federal Reserve (Fed), and the FDIC have materially enhanced the company's capital and liquidity profiles and better positioned the company for what we believe will be continued challenging operating conditions. During the next two years, we might consider raising our ratings on GMAC LLC and Residential Capital LLC if the capital and liquidity positions they currently enjoy as a result of various U.S. government actions were to combine with a resurgent auto finance sector and a return to full financial health for General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst John K. Bartko, C.P.A.

On May 12, 2009, the U.S. government named GMAC preferred lender for Chrysler LLC dealers and retail customers.

The UST invested $7.5 billion in 9% mandatory convertible preferred stock (MCP) with warrants. The warrants were immediately exercised for $375 million and the MCP is convertible after seven years. GMAC indicated that $4 billion of the $7.5 billion is earmarked to support financing of Chrysler LLC dealers and retail customers. $3.5 billion is allocated toward GMAC LLC's $9.1 billion Supervisory Capital Assistance Program requirement.

On May 21, 2009, the FDIC approved GMAC LLC's application for participation in the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program for up to $7.4 billion. The Fed also granted GMAC LLC a limited exemption from section 23A of the Federal Reserve Act allowing for the origination of General Motors assets at GMAC LLC's bank subsidiary (recently renamed Ally Bank) subject to certain conditions. In connection with these actions, GMAC LLC agreed to reconstitute it board of directors.

Under an earlier agreement, the UST has the right to exchange an $884 million loan made to General Motors for common equity interest in GMAC LLC. The UST indicated it expects to convert in the "very near future," after which the UST will own 35.4% of GMAC's common stock.

GMAC LLC still faces substantial long-term strategic issues that could overwhelm the advantages provided by the company's capital and liquidity positions. In addition, we expect the bulk of GMAC LLC's business volumes to be associated with one bankrupt auto manufacturer in Chrysler LLC and another that may be contemplating the same in General Motors.

Meanwhile, we expect Residential Capital LLC's business to continue to be to provide loans and services to the still-distressed mortgage market.

Although the U.S. government's interest in GMAC LLC is substantiated by its sizable capital investment and its appointment of GMAC to provide dealer and retail services for Chrysler LLC, we do not consider GMAC LLC a highly systemically important institution.

Therefore, we do not believe that GMAC LLC would necessarily receive additional extraordinary support if it were needed, or if it were to receive such support we are uncertain as to what form such support could take.

Considering these points, we foresee possible negative ratings pressure on GMAC LLC and Residential Capital LLC if there were less-than-optimal outcomes of the Chrysler LLC bankruptcy, a potential General Motors bankruptcy, a continued depressed auto sector, and ongoing pressure from Residential Capital LLC.
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
DETROIT, May 31 (Reuters) - Investors representing about 54 percent of General Motors Corp's (GM.N) $27.2 billion of bonds indicated support for a U.S. Treasury-brokered swap that could help speed the automaker's way through bankruptcy.
Elliot Sloane, a spokesman for an ad hoc committee that represents about a dozen big GM bondholders, also said investors representing 19 percent of GM bonds indicated new support for the swap proposal before Saturday's deadline.
A total of 975 institutions either sent letters of support or gave indications that they would support the swap as well, Sloane said. (Reporting by Walden Siew and Kevin Krolicki, writing by David Bailey)

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN3132983320090531?rpc=44
 

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