Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione Imark
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
METHOS
Forumer storico
Vi saluto tutti, credo che per almeno un paio di settimane non potrò scrivere...
In bocca al lupo ai bondholders greci, e spero vivamente di essere in errore ...
Ciao carissimo e torna presto che ti si attende a braccia aperte.
Per il resto speriamo che te e gaudente per una volta vi sbagliate (non tanto sui numeri quanto sul finale della storia)...
tommy271
Forumer storico
Vi saluto tutti, credo che per almeno un paio di settimane non potrò scrivere...
In bocca al lupo ai bondholders greci, e spero vivamente di essere in errore ...
Aspetta un secondo, poi ritornerai tra qualche mese.
Vengo a Tommy: se fosse vero che la Grecia non porta a casa la pelle, nella situazione attuale, la BCE la devi ricapitalizzare comunque. Ma meglio farla con un haircut ai bond greci dell'X% oggi oppure rischiare di farlo con un harcut molto più elevato domani ? Il punto è sempre quello.
Se si va verso un "reprofiling" od un riscadenziamento, non c'è bisogno di ricapitalizzare rispetto ad un "haircut", dato che il nominale rimane inalterato.
Poi più avanti si vedrà...
Ultima modifica:
tommy271
Forumer storico
Greek PM still seeks consensus, EU/IMF inspectors back
Wed May 25, 2011 6:49am EDT
* Greek PM continues to seek national consensus
* Conservative opposition rejects new austerity measures
* EU, ECB, IMF team returns, continues performance review
(Expands with PM quotes, inspectors visiting, background)
By George Georgiopoulos and Renee Maltezou
ATHENS, May 25 (Reuters) - Greece's prime minister called again for consensus at a meeting with the country's president on Wednesday, declining to comment on reports that his government is considering a referendum on more austerity measures. Athens wants to secure continued funding under a 110 billion euro ($155 billion) bailout agreed a year ago while paymasters at the European Union press for wider political support before they agree on further loans to plug a funding gap next year.
"At this critical hour we need national consensus. I am open to all good ideas and realistic proposals," Prime Minister George Papandreou told reporters after meeting President Karolos Papoulias.
He said he was determined to keep Greece in the euro zone, where the financing crisis sparked by Greek admissions in 2009 that its debt was much bigger than previously acknowledged has spread to engulf Ireland and Portugal and threaten some of the bloc's bigger economies.
Papandreou, whose socialists have a comfortable lead in parliament but are sliding in opinion polls, called on the political opposition to agree on the basics to emerge from a severe debt crisis but failed to get them on board.
The conservative New Democracy party, which last year voted against the EU/IMF bailout deal, claims austerity is choking the economy and impeding it from growing out of the debt mess.
Greek newspapers reported on Wednesday the government was considering a referendum on the additional austerity package to tackle the debt crisis after the political opposition disagreed on the way forward.
Asked on the issue by reporters after his meeting with Papoulias, Papandreou did not give a straight answer.
"We are absolutely determined to remain participants in the hard core of the European Union," he said.
On Monday, the government unveiled a series of privatisations, part of a goal to raise 50 billion euros by 2015 to pay down its debt mountain, starting with divestments in Hellenic Postbank (GPSr.AT), OTE Telecom (OTEr.AT) and the two biggest ports.
It said it was working with IMF/EU inspectors on finalising extra fiscal measures worth 6.4 billion euros as part of a mid-term plan aimed at continued funding and meeting deficit reduction targets.
The troika team of inspectors resumed its meetings with ministers before it concludes a fourth review of Greece's economic adjustment programme, which will determine whether Athens gets a fifth 12 billion euro tranche of bailout money.
***
La Troika ha ripreso gli incontri di lavoro con i ministri, dopo averli interrotti la scorsa settimana.
Wed May 25, 2011 6:49am EDT
* Greek PM continues to seek national consensus
* Conservative opposition rejects new austerity measures
* EU, ECB, IMF team returns, continues performance review
(Expands with PM quotes, inspectors visiting, background)
By George Georgiopoulos and Renee Maltezou
ATHENS, May 25 (Reuters) - Greece's prime minister called again for consensus at a meeting with the country's president on Wednesday, declining to comment on reports that his government is considering a referendum on more austerity measures. Athens wants to secure continued funding under a 110 billion euro ($155 billion) bailout agreed a year ago while paymasters at the European Union press for wider political support before they agree on further loans to plug a funding gap next year.
"At this critical hour we need national consensus. I am open to all good ideas and realistic proposals," Prime Minister George Papandreou told reporters after meeting President Karolos Papoulias.
He said he was determined to keep Greece in the euro zone, where the financing crisis sparked by Greek admissions in 2009 that its debt was much bigger than previously acknowledged has spread to engulf Ireland and Portugal and threaten some of the bloc's bigger economies.
Papandreou, whose socialists have a comfortable lead in parliament but are sliding in opinion polls, called on the political opposition to agree on the basics to emerge from a severe debt crisis but failed to get them on board.
The conservative New Democracy party, which last year voted against the EU/IMF bailout deal, claims austerity is choking the economy and impeding it from growing out of the debt mess.
Greek newspapers reported on Wednesday the government was considering a referendum on the additional austerity package to tackle the debt crisis after the political opposition disagreed on the way forward.
Asked on the issue by reporters after his meeting with Papoulias, Papandreou did not give a straight answer.
"We are absolutely determined to remain participants in the hard core of the European Union," he said.
On Monday, the government unveiled a series of privatisations, part of a goal to raise 50 billion euros by 2015 to pay down its debt mountain, starting with divestments in Hellenic Postbank (GPSr.AT), OTE Telecom (OTEr.AT) and the two biggest ports.
It said it was working with IMF/EU inspectors on finalising extra fiscal measures worth 6.4 billion euros as part of a mid-term plan aimed at continued funding and meeting deficit reduction targets.
The troika team of inspectors resumed its meetings with ministers before it concludes a fourth review of Greece's economic adjustment programme, which will determine whether Athens gets a fifth 12 billion euro tranche of bailout money.
***
La Troika ha ripreso gli incontri di lavoro con i ministri, dopo averli interrotti la scorsa settimana.
tommy271
Forumer storico
Greece is optimistic it will get 5th tranche of bailout loan – Govt spokesman
Wed, May 25 2011, 11:12 GMT | Forex Live
Wed, May 25 2011, 11:12 GMT | Forex Live
tommy271
Forumer storico
I TITOLI DEI GIORNALI:
A pending batch of new austerity measures and press speculation over their effect on wage-earners and pensioners and the fall-out from the PM's contacts with political party leaders mostly dominated the headlines on Wednesday in Athens' newspapers.
ADESMEFTOS TYPOS: "Political leaders do not offer consensus".
AVGHI: "Democracy now!"
AVRIANI: "Popular Orthodox Rally (LA.O.S) leader George Karatzaferis calls for co-governance".
ELEFTHEROS TYPOS: "Prime Minister George Papandreou seeks life vest".
ELEFTHEROTYPIA: "Cuts in salaries, benefits and pensions".
ESTIA: "We're heading towards impasse".
ETHNOS: "The hemorhagging of salaries, pensions and lump sums".
IMERISSIA: "Markets anticipate actions".
KATHIMERINI: "Referendum now on the table".
NAFTEMPORIKI: "Consensus for labour 'reserves' in public sector".
RIZOSPASTIS: "Horrible measures must not pass".
TA NEA: "Tax measures divide them (political leaders)".
VRADYNI: "How much will civil servants, pensioners pay".
(ana.gr)
A pending batch of new austerity measures and press speculation over their effect on wage-earners and pensioners and the fall-out from the PM's contacts with political party leaders mostly dominated the headlines on Wednesday in Athens' newspapers.
ADESMEFTOS TYPOS: "Political leaders do not offer consensus".
AVGHI: "Democracy now!"
AVRIANI: "Popular Orthodox Rally (LA.O.S) leader George Karatzaferis calls for co-governance".
ELEFTHEROS TYPOS: "Prime Minister George Papandreou seeks life vest".
ELEFTHEROTYPIA: "Cuts in salaries, benefits and pensions".
ESTIA: "We're heading towards impasse".
ETHNOS: "The hemorhagging of salaries, pensions and lump sums".
IMERISSIA: "Markets anticipate actions".
KATHIMERINI: "Referendum now on the table".
NAFTEMPORIKI: "Consensus for labour 'reserves' in public sector".
RIZOSPASTIS: "Horrible measures must not pass".
TA NEA: "Tax measures divide them (political leaders)".
VRADYNI: "How much will civil servants, pensioners pay".
(ana.gr)
sethi
Forumer storico
Dunque dunque dunque allora abbiamo un problema e se lo vediamo dal punto di vista economico non c'è nulla da fare la Grecia è in default............
se lo vediamo dal punto di vista politico meglio un default oggi della Grecia che la perdita dei seggi al governo merkel & co sarebbero propensi ad un bel default e non se ne parla +..........
se lo vediamo dal punto di vista dei danni che può arrecare con il default della Grecia daremmo il via a:
1) una bella depressione stile anni 30 in Usa europa e in parte resto del mondo
2) probabile dissolvimento della zona euro ...perchè semplice lo abbiamo davanti agli occhi se entri in una società dove apporto il mio immobile senza dire che è ipotecato (grecia falso in bilancio pe entrare nella zona euro)
a) .....si riunisce il consiglio di amministrazione ...mi denuncia ...mi butta fuori e mi fa arrestare
b) ....si riunisce il consoglio di amministrazione ......mi redarguisce ....mi obbliga a pagare i debiti magari facendomi prestiti ......e mi permette di rimanere
zona euro scelta b) opzione accettata ......società non sana ma con buoni fondamentali in grado di sopperire alla mancaza di un membro del board (grecia).
evoluzione ....la società non è in grado di garantire il suo membro sia nei confronti di terzi che nei confronti di membri stessi che manifestano malumori , incongruenze, non linearità.........
risultato finale dissolvimento della società in quanto non affidabile nel complesso in quanto dato che non è stata in grado di gestire una non ottemperanza di un membro secondo il mercato un domani non sarà in grado di ottemperare agli impegni presi nel suo complesso.......ergo fine dell'euro e della zona euro................io la vedo cosi.
Poi palla di cristallo rotta alla nascita etc etc come scrivo sempre.
In conclusione se si hanno delle regole da seguire anche se sono antieconomiche , invise alla gente, non giuste e mettiamole come vogliamo ma se si hanno delle regole e si accettano ....queste regole si seguono altrimenti cari miei possiamo essere germania , francia, impero dei klingon o startrek che sia ma non si da coerenza e fiducia .................
se lo vediamo dal punto di vista politico meglio un default oggi della Grecia che la perdita dei seggi al governo merkel & co sarebbero propensi ad un bel default e non se ne parla +..........
se lo vediamo dal punto di vista dei danni che può arrecare con il default della Grecia daremmo il via a:
1) una bella depressione stile anni 30 in Usa europa e in parte resto del mondo
2) probabile dissolvimento della zona euro ...perchè semplice lo abbiamo davanti agli occhi se entri in una società dove apporto il mio immobile senza dire che è ipotecato (grecia falso in bilancio pe entrare nella zona euro)
a) .....si riunisce il consiglio di amministrazione ...mi denuncia ...mi butta fuori e mi fa arrestare
b) ....si riunisce il consoglio di amministrazione ......mi redarguisce ....mi obbliga a pagare i debiti magari facendomi prestiti ......e mi permette di rimanere
zona euro scelta b) opzione accettata ......società non sana ma con buoni fondamentali in grado di sopperire alla mancaza di un membro del board (grecia).
evoluzione ....la società non è in grado di garantire il suo membro sia nei confronti di terzi che nei confronti di membri stessi che manifestano malumori , incongruenze, non linearità.........
risultato finale dissolvimento della società in quanto non affidabile nel complesso in quanto dato che non è stata in grado di gestire una non ottemperanza di un membro secondo il mercato un domani non sarà in grado di ottemperare agli impegni presi nel suo complesso.......ergo fine dell'euro e della zona euro................io la vedo cosi.
Poi palla di cristallo rotta alla nascita etc etc come scrivo sempre.
In conclusione se si hanno delle regole da seguire anche se sono antieconomiche , invise alla gente, non giuste e mettiamole come vogliamo ma se si hanno delle regole e si accettano ....queste regole si seguono altrimenti cari miei possiamo essere germania , francia, impero dei klingon o startrek che sia ma non si da coerenza e fiducia .................
Imark
Forumer storico
Mi hai riacchiappato per la collottola, come si fa con i gatti...
Il reprofiling ... per avere qualche chance di funzionare temo debba essere "tosto": al posto dei bond attuali, zero coupon a vent'anni, e con i proventi delle privatizzazioni ci copri il disavanzo finché non arrivi ad azzerare il deficit primario, continuando ancora per qualche anno con una politica di lacrime e sangue in Grecia.
Per l'idea che me ne sono fatto, forse si potrebbe provare.
Si vedrà quale compromesso si raggiungerà fra i politici, confidando che si eviti un disorderly default, come credo ... almeno quello...
tommy271
Forumer storico
Give Greece 2nd Chance, Then Restructure: Analyst
Published: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 | 6:16 AM E
By: Shai Ahmed
Associate Web Producer, CNBC.com
Greece should receive another tranche of aid from the European Union to enable it to have a second chance and restructure later, according to an analyst.
“The key thing is that Greece’s debt is very high and the banks hold a significant amount of this debt and the situation needs resolution.
"There are three ways of dealing with this. The first one is rescheduling this debt, the second is to impose a voluntary exchange of debt and the third one is to apply a haircut. The third one is the worst possible option at this stage because the contagion risk is very high," said Alexander Kyrtsis, analyst at UBS.
“The most likely short term outcome is to give Greece a second chance and restructure later and Greece should proceed with the privatizations and providing a credible plan to contain the deficit and debt.”
He added that some Greek banks looked attractive to buy because some had a lower exposure to the Greek sovereign and because he believed Greece would get more aid from the EU. However, banks scheduled for privatization were less attractive.
“There might be some buying opportunities in the privatization story but the problem is that the banks that are being privatized hold significant amounts of Greek governed debt so one would have to look at that closely ,” Kyrtsis said.
“I think they will make a genuine attempt to go ahead with the privatisations, there is a very detailed plan now in place and we’ll get more details in the next few days and we’ll also see significant initiatives on the deficit containment side, meaning Greece’s attempts to improve tax revenue and also reduce public expenditure,” he added.
Published: Wednesday, 25 May 2011 | 6:16 AM E
By: Shai Ahmed
Associate Web Producer, CNBC.com
Greece should receive another tranche of aid from the European Union to enable it to have a second chance and restructure later, according to an analyst.
“The key thing is that Greece’s debt is very high and the banks hold a significant amount of this debt and the situation needs resolution.
"There are three ways of dealing with this. The first one is rescheduling this debt, the second is to impose a voluntary exchange of debt and the third one is to apply a haircut. The third one is the worst possible option at this stage because the contagion risk is very high," said Alexander Kyrtsis, analyst at UBS.
“The most likely short term outcome is to give Greece a second chance and restructure later and Greece should proceed with the privatizations and providing a credible plan to contain the deficit and debt.”
He added that some Greek banks looked attractive to buy because some had a lower exposure to the Greek sovereign and because he believed Greece would get more aid from the EU. However, banks scheduled for privatization were less attractive.
“There might be some buying opportunities in the privatization story but the problem is that the banks that are being privatized hold significant amounts of Greek governed debt so one would have to look at that closely ,” Kyrtsis said.
“I think they will make a genuine attempt to go ahead with the privatisations, there is a very detailed plan now in place and we’ll get more details in the next few days and we’ll also see significant initiatives on the deficit containment side, meaning Greece’s attempts to improve tax revenue and also reduce public expenditure,” he added.
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