Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2 (7 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione caligola2005
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
innocentiproject
Forumer attivo
tra mercoledi ed oggi, forse in contrtendenza, principalmente per prudenza:
SELL SNS 155 (mantengo cip) @51 di media
SELL SNS 523 (mantencgo cip) @ 74 di media
SELL SRLEV (mantengo minimicrocip) @ 86 di media
SELL groupama 751 @ 49.5
SELL CA 868 @ 71.7
ho ancora diversa roba speculativa (lt2...anche 2042 callabili), ma di t1 solo la AXA twister XS0207825364 e la BPCE FR0010279273.
SELL SNS 155 (mantengo cip) @51 di media
SELL SNS 523 (mantencgo cip) @ 74 di media
SELL SRLEV (mantengo minimicrocip) @ 86 di media
SELL groupama 751 @ 49.5
SELL CA 868 @ 71.7
ho ancora diversa roba speculativa (lt2...anche 2042 callabili), ma di t1 solo la AXA twister XS0207825364 e la BPCE FR0010279273.
Ultima modifica:
vbrm
Forumer attivo
meno male ...
presa ieri allo stesso prezzo mangiandomi i gomiti perchè un mese o anche una settimama fa sarebbe stato molto meglio ... comunque vedo che sono in buona compagnia !
darkog
In Hoc Signo Vince..
La BPCE 273 è immobile.. Ma mantengo anch'io..
dierre
Forumer storico
capt.harlock
MENA IL CAMMELLO FAN CLUB
non sarebbe meglio prendere al limite la lt2 del popular?
Topgun1976
Guest
Tutto sale questa sembra un buon compromessomeno male ...
presa ieri allo stesso prezzo mangiandomi i gomiti perchè un mese o anche una settimama fa sarebbe stato molto meglio ... comunque vedo che sono in buona compagnia !
a 63 su ams non si prende,ha inserito un limitato a 63 ed è passato
Taglio Min 50k..contro tagli da 1k..scusa se è poco,costo 62 contro 53-55,trimestrale
Non sembra male in effetti..
Ps.Preso anchio un cippetto della 6% popular
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
darkog
In Hoc Signo Vince..
Non riesco a prenderla con Binck..
Wallygo
Forumer storico
ho dato un occhiata a questa popular DE0009190702 a livello di rating non è che mi faccia impazzire :
Moody's : B3 26/06/2012 credit watch neg.
FITCH : B- 21/09/2012 " " stable
S & P : CCC+ 25/05/2012 " " neg. ( 07/08/2012)
posto anche il downgrade fresco di giornata :
Fitch Downgrades Spain's Banco Popular to 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
21 Sep 2012 7:56 AM (EDT)
Fitch Ratings-Barcelona/London-21 September 2012:
Fitch Ratings has downgraded Banco Popular Espanol SA's (Popular) Long-term Issuer Default Rating (IDR) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-', Short-term IDR to 'B' from 'F3', Viability Rating (VR) to 'bb+' from 'bbb-', Support Rating to '3' from '2' and Support Rating Floor (SRF) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'. The Outlook on Popular's Long-term IDR is Stable and driven by its SRF. At the same time, Fitch has taken rating actions on Popular's 100%-owned Portuguese bank subsidiary, Banco Popular Portugal (BPP). A full list of rating actions is below.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - VR
The downgrade of Popular's VR highlights increased concerns about its profitability and capital positions. This is due to the prolonged recession in Spain, the ongoing real estate crisis, and the need for Popular to recognise large real estate-related provisions. Popular has high exposure to the troubled Spanish real estate sector, which is concentrated by name.
To absorb its provisioning needs, Popular plans to increase capital and generate substantial capital gains, for example through non-core asset sales. While Popular could have the means to achieve these targets, Fitch believes that it will prove challenging to realise capital gains over the short term in the current climate, while some of the gains envisaged are less tangible than others.
Moreover, Popular remains reliant on wholesale funding sources at a time when market conditions remain difficult. Popular's stock of unencumbered liquid assets sufficiently cover short-term wholesale unsecured funding maturities, but provide a relatively tight buffer against unexpected liquidity shocks.
However, Popular's VR also reflects a solid franchise, in particular in SMEs, which has supported sound pre-provision earnings generation over the years; as well as a track record of good cost efficiency.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - IDRs, SUPPORT RATING AND SRF
The downgrade of Popular's IDRs is a consequence of the downgrade of its VR combined with a downgrade of its Support Rating and SRF. The latter reflect Fitch's opinion that the propensity for timely support being available to Popular has declined from high to moderate. This comes against the background of the significant restructuring process taking place in the Spanish banking sector. In Fitch's opinion, Popular's size and systemic importance place it outside the top tier of systemically important Spanish banks with SRFs in the 'BBB' range.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - VR
The EUR100bn banking sector support package for Spanish banks agreed between Spain and the Eurogroup was formalised under a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which was followed by the enactment of Royal Decree Law 24/2012. As part of the MOU, stress tests are being undertaken for 14 Spanish banking groups, including Popular. Fitch expects that Popular will have additional capital needs as a result of the stress test. In the near term, Popular's VR is sensitive to the amount of the recapitalisation needs as well as to any changes in Fitch's assessment of its ability to execute on its solvency-boosting action plans and how it elects to do so.
Popular's VR is also sensitive to an even deeper recession or real estate crash in Spain than currently assumed and/or a failure to continue rebalancing its funding mix or mitigate liquidity risks.
On the other hand, an upgrade could arise from improved economic prospects in Spain and asset quality, further capital strengthening and improvements in its funding and liquidity.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - SUPPORT RATING, IDRs AND SRF
Popular's Support Rating and SRF are potentially sensitive to a downgrade of the Spanish sovereign rating or to any further change in Fitch's judgement around the propensity for the Spanish and European authorities to support banks. A further downgrade of Popular's SRF would only trigger a downgrade of its Long-term IDR if the VR was also downgraded.
SUBSIDIARY COMPANY RATING DRIVERS AND SENSITIVITIES
The rating actions on BPP's IDRs reflect a weakening of potential parent bank support following the downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. Fitch considers BPP a strategically important subsidiary of Popular. The IDRs and Support Rating of BPP are primarily sensitive to a downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. However, Fitch considers Popular's propensity and ability to support BPP also to be linked to Portuguese sovereign and banking sector risks, and BPP's Long-term IDR could also be affected in the event of a material downgrade of Portugal's sovereign rating ('BB+'/Negative). The Stable Outlook on BPP's Long-term IDR is based on that of the parent bank.
SUBORDINATED DEBT AND OTHER HYBRID SECURITIES
Subordinated debt and preferred stock are notched down from Popular's VR of 'bb+', in line with the agency's criteria on Rating Bank Regulatory Capital and Similar Securities and their downgrades reflect Fitch's assessment of heightened non-performance risk for each instrument. Their ratings are mainly sensitive to any change in Popular's VR.
Popular is Spain's sixth-largest banking group, with total assets of EUR158m at end-H112. It focuses on retail and commercial banking for SMEs and individuals. Its presence is sound in the regions of Andalusia, Catalonia, Galicia and Madrid and its national market share is around 6% for both loans and deposits.
The rating actions are as follows:
Popular
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Viability Rating: downgraded to 'bb+' from 'bbb-'
Support Rating: downgraded to '3' from '2'
Support Rating Floor: revised to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Commercial paper: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Subordinated debt: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'
Preference shares: downgraded to 'B-' from 'B'
BPE Financiaciones SA:
Long-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Short-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
BPP:
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: affirmed at 'B'
Support Rating: affirmed at '3'
The impact, if any, of the above rating actions on BPP's covered bonds will be detailed in a separate comment.
comunque mi piace la struttura di questa popular (ced. trim, tasso fisso )
qualcuno sa se ha loss abs. da prospetto ?
pronto ad entrare se la situazione in SPAIN si rasserena!
Moody's : B3 26/06/2012 credit watch neg.
FITCH : B- 21/09/2012 " " stable
S & P : CCC+ 25/05/2012 " " neg. ( 07/08/2012)
posto anche il downgrade fresco di giornata :
Fitch Downgrades Spain's Banco Popular to 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
21 Sep 2012 7:56 AM (EDT)
Fitch Ratings-Barcelona/London-21 September 2012:
Fitch Ratings has downgraded Banco Popular Espanol SA's (Popular) Long-term Issuer Default Rating (IDR) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-', Short-term IDR to 'B' from 'F3', Viability Rating (VR) to 'bb+' from 'bbb-', Support Rating to '3' from '2' and Support Rating Floor (SRF) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'. The Outlook on Popular's Long-term IDR is Stable and driven by its SRF. At the same time, Fitch has taken rating actions on Popular's 100%-owned Portuguese bank subsidiary, Banco Popular Portugal (BPP). A full list of rating actions is below.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - VR
The downgrade of Popular's VR highlights increased concerns about its profitability and capital positions. This is due to the prolonged recession in Spain, the ongoing real estate crisis, and the need for Popular to recognise large real estate-related provisions. Popular has high exposure to the troubled Spanish real estate sector, which is concentrated by name.
To absorb its provisioning needs, Popular plans to increase capital and generate substantial capital gains, for example through non-core asset sales. While Popular could have the means to achieve these targets, Fitch believes that it will prove challenging to realise capital gains over the short term in the current climate, while some of the gains envisaged are less tangible than others.
Moreover, Popular remains reliant on wholesale funding sources at a time when market conditions remain difficult. Popular's stock of unencumbered liquid assets sufficiently cover short-term wholesale unsecured funding maturities, but provide a relatively tight buffer against unexpected liquidity shocks.
However, Popular's VR also reflects a solid franchise, in particular in SMEs, which has supported sound pre-provision earnings generation over the years; as well as a track record of good cost efficiency.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - IDRs, SUPPORT RATING AND SRF
The downgrade of Popular's IDRs is a consequence of the downgrade of its VR combined with a downgrade of its Support Rating and SRF. The latter reflect Fitch's opinion that the propensity for timely support being available to Popular has declined from high to moderate. This comes against the background of the significant restructuring process taking place in the Spanish banking sector. In Fitch's opinion, Popular's size and systemic importance place it outside the top tier of systemically important Spanish banks with SRFs in the 'BBB' range.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - VR
The EUR100bn banking sector support package for Spanish banks agreed between Spain and the Eurogroup was formalised under a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which was followed by the enactment of Royal Decree Law 24/2012. As part of the MOU, stress tests are being undertaken for 14 Spanish banking groups, including Popular. Fitch expects that Popular will have additional capital needs as a result of the stress test. In the near term, Popular's VR is sensitive to the amount of the recapitalisation needs as well as to any changes in Fitch's assessment of its ability to execute on its solvency-boosting action plans and how it elects to do so.
Popular's VR is also sensitive to an even deeper recession or real estate crash in Spain than currently assumed and/or a failure to continue rebalancing its funding mix or mitigate liquidity risks.
On the other hand, an upgrade could arise from improved economic prospects in Spain and asset quality, further capital strengthening and improvements in its funding and liquidity.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - SUPPORT RATING, IDRs AND SRF
Popular's Support Rating and SRF are potentially sensitive to a downgrade of the Spanish sovereign rating or to any further change in Fitch's judgement around the propensity for the Spanish and European authorities to support banks. A further downgrade of Popular's SRF would only trigger a downgrade of its Long-term IDR if the VR was also downgraded.
SUBSIDIARY COMPANY RATING DRIVERS AND SENSITIVITIES
The rating actions on BPP's IDRs reflect a weakening of potential parent bank support following the downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. Fitch considers BPP a strategically important subsidiary of Popular. The IDRs and Support Rating of BPP are primarily sensitive to a downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. However, Fitch considers Popular's propensity and ability to support BPP also to be linked to Portuguese sovereign and banking sector risks, and BPP's Long-term IDR could also be affected in the event of a material downgrade of Portugal's sovereign rating ('BB+'/Negative). The Stable Outlook on BPP's Long-term IDR is based on that of the parent bank.
SUBORDINATED DEBT AND OTHER HYBRID SECURITIES
Subordinated debt and preferred stock are notched down from Popular's VR of 'bb+', in line with the agency's criteria on Rating Bank Regulatory Capital and Similar Securities and their downgrades reflect Fitch's assessment of heightened non-performance risk for each instrument. Their ratings are mainly sensitive to any change in Popular's VR.
Popular is Spain's sixth-largest banking group, with total assets of EUR158m at end-H112. It focuses on retail and commercial banking for SMEs and individuals. Its presence is sound in the regions of Andalusia, Catalonia, Galicia and Madrid and its national market share is around 6% for both loans and deposits.
The rating actions are as follows:
Popular
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Viability Rating: downgraded to 'bb+' from 'bbb-'
Support Rating: downgraded to '3' from '2'
Support Rating Floor: revised to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Commercial paper: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Subordinated debt: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'
Preference shares: downgraded to 'B-' from 'B'
BPE Financiaciones SA:
Long-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Short-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
BPP:
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: affirmed at 'B'
Support Rating: affirmed at '3'
The impact, if any, of the above rating actions on BPP's covered bonds will be detailed in a separate comment.
comunque mi piace la struttura di questa popular (ced. trim, tasso fisso )
qualcuno sa se ha loss abs. da prospetto ?
pronto ad entrare se la situazione in SPAIN si rasserena!
darkog
In Hoc Signo Vince..
ho dato un occhiata a questa popular DE0009190702 a livello di rating non è che mi faccia impazzire :
Moody's : B3 26/06/2012 credit watch neg.
FITCH : B- 21/09/2012 " " stable
S & P : CCC+ 25/05/2012 " " neg. ( 07/08/2012)
posto anche il downgrade fresco di giornata :
Fitch Downgrades Spain's Banco Popular to 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
21 Sep 2012 7:56 AM (EDT)
Fitch Ratings-Barcelona/London-21 September 2012:
Fitch Ratings has downgraded Banco Popular Espanol SA's (Popular) Long-term Issuer Default Rating (IDR) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-', Short-term IDR to 'B' from 'F3', Viability Rating (VR) to 'bb+' from 'bbb-', Support Rating to '3' from '2' and Support Rating Floor (SRF) to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'. The Outlook on Popular's Long-term IDR is Stable and driven by its SRF. At the same time, Fitch has taken rating actions on Popular's 100%-owned Portuguese bank subsidiary, Banco Popular Portugal (BPP). A full list of rating actions is below.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - VR
The downgrade of Popular's VR highlights increased concerns about its profitability and capital positions. This is due to the prolonged recession in Spain, the ongoing real estate crisis, and the need for Popular to recognise large real estate-related provisions. Popular has high exposure to the troubled Spanish real estate sector, which is concentrated by name.
To absorb its provisioning needs, Popular plans to increase capital and generate substantial capital gains, for example through non-core asset sales. While Popular could have the means to achieve these targets, Fitch believes that it will prove challenging to realise capital gains over the short term in the current climate, while some of the gains envisaged are less tangible than others.
Moreover, Popular remains reliant on wholesale funding sources at a time when market conditions remain difficult. Popular's stock of unencumbered liquid assets sufficiently cover short-term wholesale unsecured funding maturities, but provide a relatively tight buffer against unexpected liquidity shocks.
However, Popular's VR also reflects a solid franchise, in particular in SMEs, which has supported sound pre-provision earnings generation over the years; as well as a track record of good cost efficiency.
RATING ACTION RATIONALE AND DRIVERS - IDRs, SUPPORT RATING AND SRF
The downgrade of Popular's IDRs is a consequence of the downgrade of its VR combined with a downgrade of its Support Rating and SRF. The latter reflect Fitch's opinion that the propensity for timely support being available to Popular has declined from high to moderate. This comes against the background of the significant restructuring process taking place in the Spanish banking sector. In Fitch's opinion, Popular's size and systemic importance place it outside the top tier of systemically important Spanish banks with SRFs in the 'BBB' range.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - VR
The EUR100bn banking sector support package for Spanish banks agreed between Spain and the Eurogroup was formalised under a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which was followed by the enactment of Royal Decree Law 24/2012. As part of the MOU, stress tests are being undertaken for 14 Spanish banking groups, including Popular. Fitch expects that Popular will have additional capital needs as a result of the stress test. In the near term, Popular's VR is sensitive to the amount of the recapitalisation needs as well as to any changes in Fitch's assessment of its ability to execute on its solvency-boosting action plans and how it elects to do so.
Popular's VR is also sensitive to an even deeper recession or real estate crash in Spain than currently assumed and/or a failure to continue rebalancing its funding mix or mitigate liquidity risks.
On the other hand, an upgrade could arise from improved economic prospects in Spain and asset quality, further capital strengthening and improvements in its funding and liquidity.
RATING SENSITIVITIES - SUPPORT RATING, IDRs AND SRF
Popular's Support Rating and SRF are potentially sensitive to a downgrade of the Spanish sovereign rating or to any further change in Fitch's judgement around the propensity for the Spanish and European authorities to support banks. A further downgrade of Popular's SRF would only trigger a downgrade of its Long-term IDR if the VR was also downgraded.
SUBSIDIARY COMPANY RATING DRIVERS AND SENSITIVITIES
The rating actions on BPP's IDRs reflect a weakening of potential parent bank support following the downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. Fitch considers BPP a strategically important subsidiary of Popular. The IDRs and Support Rating of BPP are primarily sensitive to a downgrade of Popular's Long-term IDR. However, Fitch considers Popular's propensity and ability to support BPP also to be linked to Portuguese sovereign and banking sector risks, and BPP's Long-term IDR could also be affected in the event of a material downgrade of Portugal's sovereign rating ('BB+'/Negative). The Stable Outlook on BPP's Long-term IDR is based on that of the parent bank.
SUBORDINATED DEBT AND OTHER HYBRID SECURITIES
Subordinated debt and preferred stock are notched down from Popular's VR of 'bb+', in line with the agency's criteria on Rating Bank Regulatory Capital and Similar Securities and their downgrades reflect Fitch's assessment of heightened non-performance risk for each instrument. Their ratings are mainly sensitive to any change in Popular's VR.
Popular is Spain's sixth-largest banking group, with total assets of EUR158m at end-H112. It focuses on retail and commercial banking for SMEs and individuals. Its presence is sound in the regions of Andalusia, Catalonia, Galicia and Madrid and its national market share is around 6% for both loans and deposits.
The rating actions are as follows:
Popular
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Viability Rating: downgraded to 'bb+' from 'bbb-'
Support Rating: downgraded to '3' from '2'
Support Rating Floor: revised to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Commercial paper: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
Senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Subordinated debt: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'
Preference shares: downgraded to 'B-' from 'B'
BPE Financiaciones SA:
Long-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB-'
Short-term senior unsecured debt: downgraded to 'B' from 'F3'
BPP:
Long-term IDR: downgraded to 'BB' from 'BB+'; Outlook Stable
Short-term IDR: affirmed at 'B'
Support Rating: affirmed at '3'
The impact, if any, of the above rating actions on BPP's covered bonds will be detailed in a separate comment.
comunque mi piace la struttura di questa popular (ced. trim, tasso fisso )
qualcuno sa se ha loss abs. da prospetto ?
pronto ad entrare se la situazione in SPAIN si rasserena!
Se non fosse per questo non quoterebbe certo 53/55...
Se la situazione si rasserenasse non riusciresti più a prenderla a questi prezzi, ma almeno a 60...
- Stato