Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2 (19 lettori)

[fidw99]

intanto la lt2 intesa 2018

XS0243399556

è arrivata a 82...

dove potrebbe atterrare la unicredit in caso di mancata call

 

[cris71]

Venduta perché ha finito la corsa o comunque corso molto o perché serviva liquidità? Io al momento la sto tenendo, nonostante il bel gain, perché non trovo
qualcosa su cui investire a parità di rendimento e sicurezza.

avendo pmc 64 ho preferito realizzare

 

[Cat XL]

signori ma che succede a commerz, le tier1 stanno schizzando letteralmente??


porca vacca, la volevo approfondire....


non ho fatto in tempo

*COMMERZBANK CEO SAYS TO PAY COUPON ON PARTICIPATION THIS YEAR
*COMMERZBANK CEO SAYS TO PAY COUPON ON SILENT PARTICIPATION

Clarity is low at this point.... But if it's what I think it is then i would suggest the following will happen. Love to hear counters as always.

This will I believe refer to the Jan-09 EUR16.4bn SoFFin silent participations. These SP rank junior to the 5.321% and 8.151% profit participations and pari with the 6.352 and remaining rumps of 5.012 and 5.905 inter alia.

In terms of loss sharing, the SoFFin notes are pari passu with all other instruments with loss participation; and explicitly there is to be "no dividend payment until full compensation of shared losses (silent participation)". This is key.

** The 5.321%
As these rank junior to the 5.321% it should mean that the 5.321% get written back up and the accumulated coupons should be repaid. The cum coupon pays on the nominal not the notional, so there will be no change to the coupon income. In terms of timing, it's an annual coupon so it could be that the notional is written back in calendar 2012, but my read of the docs is that you have to wait for the next coupon payment until the accumulated coupon is paid - the risk of non-payment in June should there be a terrible H1 for Commerz is I believe minimal as the Balance Sheet Profit test is taken on the fiscal year profit, not a quarterly event.

5.321 have gone bid only in the last half hour, now 103 bid on the screens.

** The 6.352%
For the 6.352%: these rank pari with the SoFFin notes so again they should be written back to par and the coupon (currently being paid by Allianz) will increase to 6.352% on par, not 6.352% on c.84% of the nominal.

This should be a div pusher too for the other outstanding T1 currently switched off eg the old litigation bonds.

This is indeed earlier than I had anticipated, especially given Blessing's bearish commenst on core bank in the call and the OK but lacklustre results this morning. I had thought that BaFin would rather see cash retained than bow to newspaper pressure to see a taxpayer return. Volk power is clearly strong in the Vaterland.

 

[bosmeld]

*COMMERZBANK CEO SAYS TO PAY COUPON ON PARTICIPATION THIS YEAR
*COMMERZBANK CEO SAYS TO PAY COUPON ON SILENT PARTICIPATION

Clarity is low at this point.... But if it's what I think it is then i would suggest the following will happen. Love to hear counters as always.

This will I believe refer to the Jan-09 EUR16.4bn SoFFin silent participations. These SP rank junior to the 5.321% and 8.151% profit participations and pari with the 6.352 and remaining rumps of 5.012 and 5.905 inter alia.

In terms of loss sharing, the SoFFin notes are pari passu with all other instruments with loss participation; and explicitly there is to be "no dividend payment until full compensation of shared losses (silent participation)". This is key.

** The 5.321%
As these rank junior to the 5.321% it should mean that the 5.321% get written back up and the accumulated coupons should be repaid. The cum coupon pays on the nominal not the notional, so there will be no change to the coupon income. In terms of timing, it's an annual coupon so it could be that the notional is written back in calendar 2012, but my read of the docs is that you have to wait for the next coupon payment until the accumulated coupon is paid - the risk of non-payment in June should there be a terrible H1 for Commerz is I believe minimal as the Balance Sheet Profit test is taken on the fiscal year profit, not a quarterly event.

5.321 have gone bid only in the last half hour, now 103 bid on the screens.

** The 6.352%
For the 6.352%: these rank pari with the SoFFin notes so again they should be written back to par and the coupon (currently being paid by Allianz) will increase to 6.352% on par, not 6.352% on c.84% of the nominal.

This should be a div pusher too for the other outstanding T1 currently switched off eg the old litigation bonds.

This is indeed earlier than I had anticipated, especially given Blessing's bearish commenst on core bank in the call and the OK but lacklustre results this morning. I had thought that BaFin would rather see cash retained than bow to newspaper pressure to see a taxpayer return. Volk power is clearly strong in the Vaterland.

mi devo menare da solo

ma porca vacca tutta colpa della mia pigriza


volevo approfondire ma sonos stato troppo lento.

qua non ci si può riposare un attimo.


weekend lo dedico tutto a cercare che qui se no la dispensa non la riempo per l'inverno


queste sono occasioni che non si possono lasciare cosi

 

[cumulate]

intanto la lt2 intesa 2018

XS0243399556

è arrivata a 82...

dove potrebbe atterrare la unicredit in caso di mancata call

85

 

[ferdo]

mi devo menare da solo

ma porca vacca tutta colpa della mia pigriza

volevo approfondire ma sonos stato troppo lento.

qua non ci si può riposare un attimo.

weekend lo dedico tutto a cercare che qui se no la dispensa non la riempo per l'inverno

queste sono occasioni che non si possono lasciare cosi

e dire che ero sul pezzo ...
in verità non pensavo pagassero così presto

 

[Topgun1976]

e dire che ero sul pezzo ...
in verità non pensavo pagassero così presto

I flat vanno anticipati non ha caso ho sia Haa122 che Caixa566,commerz mai seguite

 

[Cat XL]

mi devo menare da solo

ma porca vacca tutta colpa della mia pigriza


volevo approfondire ma sonos stato troppo lento.

qua non ci si può riposare un attimo.


weekend lo dedico tutto a cercare che qui se no la dispensa non la riempo per l'inverno


queste sono occasioni che non si possono lasciare cosi

...piu' che pigrzia bisogna avere anche i soldi per giocare su piu' tavoli...

 

[fabriziof]

I flat vanno anticipati non ha caso ho sia Haa122 che Caixa566,commerz mai seguite

hai ragione infatti di flat le ho praticamente tutte tranne commerz
mi consolo con ht1 che comunque già pagava

 

[Topgun1976]

hai ragione infatti di flat le ho praticamente tutte tranne commerz
mi consolo con ht1 che comunque già pagava

te che segui tutto ci sono Lt2 che pagano + dell'11% lordo?a Parte Dexia