Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

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Standard&Poor's

E' meno impegnativa di una comunicazione ufficiale (come quella di Moody's), ma pare significativa di un approccio più cauto. Mi riferisco alla dichiarazione del loro Chief Economist, in parte già riferita da drbs. Vediamo se i prossimi passi di S&P saranno altrettanto meditati:

S&P says euro zone may need another shock

By Tova Cohen and Maayan Lubell

TEL AVIV, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Ratings agency Standard & Poor's put more pressure on the euro zone on Monday, with its chief economist saying time was running out for the currency bloc to resolve its debt problems and that it might need another financial shock to get it moving.

Jean-Michel Six, chief economist of the agency that shocked financial markets last week by putting 15 euro zone countries on a watch for a potential downgrade, said last week's EU summit agreement was a significant step forward, but not enough.

S&P usually takes around three months to act after a warning, but has said that in this case it may do so more quickly.

"There is probably yet another shock required before everybody in the euro zone reads from the same page, for instance a major German bank experiencing some real difficulties on the markets, which is a genuine possibility in the near term," Six told a business conference in Tel Aviv.

"Then there would be a recognition that everybody is indeed on the same boat and that even German institutions can be affected by this contagion. I'm afraid this may still be required."

Twenty-six EU countries -- all, minus Britain -- agreed on Friday to go forward with further and deeper economic integration.

But the outcome has left financial markets uncertain whether and when more decisive action would be taken to stem the debt crisis, which began in Greece, spread to Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain and now threatens France and even economic powerhouse Germany.

Six said the summit had made progress "in terms of getting the governments mentally ready to commit in writing in some constitutional format to a medium-term fiscal strategy which would allow the ECB to become what it is not at the moment, at least officially, a lender of last resort."

Many market analysts believe that having the European Central Bank act as a lender of last resort, effectively bailing out countries that get in trouble, would solve the confidence issue facing the euro zone.

But leading power Germany is opposed, fearing the impact on member states' fiscal discipline.

THREAT REMAINS

Six said S&P's downgrade threat was designed to send a strong signal that euro zone countries were facing significant risk of a major recession next year and a credit crunch.

He added that the credit agency would not base the downgrade decision entirely on the outcome of Friday's summit, saying there would be many other such gatherings before the crisis was resolved.

"Obviously we would never determine actions so important as rating actions based on just one summit. But we did say this summit was a very important step towards the resolution of this crisis of confidence."


A series of downgrades, taking the likes of France out of the top rated AAA category, has been priced in to some markets. But it still has the potential to shake prices.

"If we get an S&P downgrade, the markets will take another leg down," Said Eugen Weinberg, head of commodity research at Commerzbank in Frankfurt. "It has not been discounted yet."

A new tRBRreaty could take three months to negotiate and may require loseable referendums in countries such as Ireland. Britain, the region's third largest economy, refused to join the other 26 countries in the fiscal union and was left isolated.

"Time is running out and action is needed on both sides of the equation, on the fiscal and monetary side," Six said.
 
Detto in italiano, cosa ti serve?
Se posso inserisco
Old qui dice il
relevant Offer Memorandum

(including the
Base Prospectus incorporated by reference into, and the relevant Final Terms set out in,
the Offer Memoranda

Praticamente dove dicono come swappano i titoli,ossia dicono che ti danno senior a 5 anni ma non ti dicono come li swappano.Secondo me ogni 10k, 5.000nom senior e 800euro+interessi in cash,ma se si trovasse il doc dovè scritto sarebbe meglio

Bid 127 54,5%
 
...
Da questo passaggio che prendo dal doc postato da Angy si fà riferimento ad un'altro doc dove si possono trovare tutti i dettagli,quindi ha ragione Discipline.Peccato non si trovi
Già :rolleyes: per ora ho trovato questa tabella riepilogativa cmq utile: http://www.ing.com/web/file?uuid=71...7-e0db-4b5d-abbf-003b12934429&contentid=14742
Dopodiché ho fatto richiesta all'IR, appena ho news le posto..

Edit: ING rimbalza su Lucid-IS, vediamo se mi rispondono subito
 
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
Da una prima lettura mi sembra confermata la mia previsione

Consideration for Existing Securities offered and accepted for exchange
Holders of Existing Securities accepted by the Offeror for exchange will receive on the Settlement Date, which
is expected to be 23 December 2011, New Securities with an aggregate nominal amount (rounded down to the
nearest €1,000) equal to the product of (a) the aggregate nominal amount of the Existing Securities of the
relevant series validly offered and accepted for exchange, and (b) the relevant Exchange Ratio. Such Holders
will also be entitled to receive on the Settlement Date an amount in cash (in euro) equal to any applicable
Accrued Coupon Payment and Cash Rounding Amount.
Cash Rounding Amount
If, as a result of the application of the relevant Exchange Ratio, a Holder would be entitled to receive New
Securities with an aggregate nominal amount that is not an integral multiple of €1,000, the Offeror will pay or
procure that there is paid to such Holder on the Settlement Date an amount in cash (the "Cash Rounding
Amount") equal to the fractional portion of such aggregate nominal amount that is not such an integral multiple.
Minimum Offer Amount
The New Securities will be issued with a denomination of €1,000. Accordingly, to participate in an Exchange
Offer, Holders must validly offer for exchange Existing Securities of the relevant series having an aggregate
nominal amount of at least the Minimum Offer Amount. In order to be able to participate in an Exchange Offer,
a Holder that holds Existing Securities of a series having an aggregate nominal amount less than the Minimum
Offer Amount must first acquire such further Existing Securities of such series as is necessary for that Holder to
be able to offer for exchange the Minimum Offer Amount.
Acceptance, no scaling of any series of Existing Securities
If the Offeror decides to accept valid offers of Existing Securities for exchange pursuant to either or both of the
Exchange Offers, the Offeror intends to accept for exchange all of the Existing Securities of each series that are
validly offered for exchange and there will be no scaling of any offers of Existing Securities of such series for
exchange. The Offeror may decide to accept offers of Existing Securities of either series for exchange but not
of the other series and may make any such decision for any reason.
Existing Securities that are not exchanged pursuant to the Exchange Offers will remain outstanding.
Delivery of New Securities and payment
If Existing Securities validly offered for exchange pursuant to an Exchange Offer are accepted for exchange by
the Offeror the corresponding New Securities will be delivered, and the aggregate amounts of any applicable
Accrued Coupon Payments and Cash Rounding Amounts will be paid by or on behalf of the Offeror to the
relevant Clearing System, in immediately available funds, on the Settlement Date. The New Securities will be
delivered and cash payments made to the Clearing System accounts in which the relevant Existing Securities are
held.
The delivery of such New Securities and payment of such aggregate amounts to the relevant Clearing Systems
will discharge the obligation of the Offeror to all such Holders in respect of the delivery of the New Securities
and payment of the Accrued Coupon Payments and Cash Rounding Amounts.
 
Da una rapida occhiata tutto liscio: taglio del nuovo bond 1k, per cui nominale minimo dei vecchi bond 1,8k. Se il denaro non sale, conviene aderire, bisogna allertare Iwbank e preparare la modulistica, c'è una settimana di tempo.
 
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
Da una rapida occhiata tutto liscio: taglio del nuovo bond 1k, per cui nominale minimo dei vecchi bond 1,8k. Se il denaro non sale, conviene aderire, bisogna allertare Iwbank e preparare la modulistica, c'è una settimana di tempo.

Dal documento postato da Top mi pare che in Italia possano aderire solo gli operatori qualificati e con un minimo di 50.000 Euro (pag.30). :wall::wall::wall:
 
Da una rapida occhiata tutto liscio: taglio del nuovo bond 1k, per cui nominale minimo dei vecchi bond 1,8k. Se il denaro non sale, conviene aderire, bisogna allertare Iwbank e preparare la modulistica, c'è una settimana di tempo.

Dal documento postato da Top mi pare che in Italia possano aderire solo gli operatori qualificati e con un minimo di 50.000 Euro (pag.30). :wall::wall::wall:

Infatti sotto cè scritto investitori qualificati

PROCEDURES FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE EXCHANGE OFFERS
Holders who need assistance with respect to the procedures for participating in the Exchange Offers should
contact the bank, securities broker or other intermediary through which they hold the Existing Securities.
Alternatively, Holders may contact the Exchange Agent, the contact details for which are on the last page of this
Exchange Offer Memorandum.
The Offeror will only accept offers of Existing Securities for exchange pursuant to either Exchange Offer which
are made by way of the submission of valid Exchange Instructions in accordance with the procedures set out in
this section "Procedures for Participating in the Exchange Offers".
To offer Existing Securities for exchange pursuant to the relevant Exchange Offer, a Holder should deliver, or
arrange to have delivered on its behalf, via the Clearing Systems, and in accordance with the requirements of
such Clearing System, a valid Exchange Instruction that is received by the Exchange Agent by the Exchange
Offer Deadline.
Exchange Instructions must be submitted in respect of an aggregate amount of the Existing Securities of at least
the Minimum Offer Amount. Holders in the European Economic Area that are neither (a) located in the
Netherlands nor (b) "qualified investors" within the meaning of Article 2(1)(e) of Directive 2003/71/EC should
also note the requirement that, individually, they must offer to exchange such nominal amount of Existing
Securities of the relevant series as will, when multiplied by the applicable Exchange Ratio, be equal to or greater
than €50,000 (or, in any Member State of the European Economic Area which has implemented the amendment
referred to in Article 3(a)(i)(2)(c) of the Prospectus Directive Amending Directive (Directive 2010/73/EU),
€100,000).
Exchange Instructions may be submitted in respect of any integral multiple of €100 in nominal amount of the
relevant Existing Securities.
Holders are advised to check with any bank, securities broker or other intermediary through which they hold
Existing Securities when such intermediary needs to receive instructions from a Holder in order for that Holder
to be able to participate in, or (in the limited circumstances in which revocation is permitted) revoke their
instruction to participate in, the Exchange Offer before the deadlines specified in this Exchange Offer
Memorandum. The deadlines set by the Clearing Systems for the submission and withdrawal of Exchange
Instructions will be earlier than the relevant deadlines specified in this Exchange Offer Memorandum.
Holders of Existing Securities who do not have access to an account in the Clearing Systems (either directly or
through a Direct Participant or other intermediary), or who do not deposit the Existing Securities which they
wish to offer for exchange with a Direct Participant in the Clearing Systems, will not be able to submit an
Exchange Instruction to the Exchange Agent and will not be eligible to participate in the Exchange Offer.
 
Dal documento postato da Top mi pare che in Italia possano aderire solo gli operatori qualificati e con un minimo di 50.000 Euro (pag.30). :wall::wall::wall:

Da come la leggo io ,ma ci vorrebbe qlc che parli inglese perfettamente,io capisco che chi non è in Olanda o Non è un Inv Qualificato può partecipare solo con tagli da 50k,ma può essere una prassi
 
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