Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 3

[TheLondoner]

C'è un motivo per cui la nuova lt2 Generali non viene prezzata o quotata in Lussemburgo? Non me la prendono in banca per questo.

vedo che è operativa sul lux: https://www.bourse.lu/instrument/market?cdVal=229622&cdTypeVal=OBL

Censita anche da Binck

 

[lambda]

Si ma il prezzo è lontano anni luce da quello reale. Come se non scambiasse.

 

[bia06]

e´ senior o subordinato?

e´ senior o subordinato?

Grazie per il Link.
A seguito di una lettura veloce e approssimata non mi sembra ci siano particolari caratteristiche,
ë un bond perpetuo di un gruppo industriale,
pagherà il coupon indipendentemente dagli utili e ha la garanzia della sola "Construtota Norberto Odebrecht SA" una delle principali società del gruppo, ma non della Capofila ODEBRECHT SA (dove si trova, per esempio, Braskem SA).
In ogni caso visto i vincoli e gli interessi incrociati che, immagino, deve avere la più importante impresa di costruzioni del latino america, non penso ci sia un rischio di fallimento.
Opinioni ¡¡¡¡¡¡

 

[ono]

Odebecht

e´ senior o subordinato?

Subordinato

 

[fabriziof]

e´ senior o subordinato?

Premesso che siamo ot perché qui si parla di sub e perpetui bancari (o assicurativi ) (il 3d giusto é quello hy)il titolo in questione é senior

 

[amorgos34]

JPM su DL

Focus on Solvency II type free cash generation; in line
with peers but with weak capital position, maintain UW ▼
Price: €7.25
Price Target: €7.56
Previous: €17.78

Price Performance
Delta Lloyd’s shares are down 55% post 1H15 results, mainly on concerns on
capital and dividend. We believe the key topics to answer at the moment are:
1) capital shortfall, 2) free cash flow yield and 3) intrinsic value of the
company. We believe that the minimum capital shortfall (to become a
dividend-paying stock) is c. €1.2bn, which is what we are assuming in our
base case valuation and earnings. In terms of Solvency II free cash flow, we
believe that it is c.€300m i.e. roughly 10% FCF yield (after €1.2bn cap raise)
and the intrinsic value of the company is around €3.0bn (with €1.2bn capital
injection). On this basis, we believe DL’s shares aren’t expensive and could
be interesting if the capital and dividend overhang is removed. However, we
maintain our UW on DL as on a relative basis as we believe that peers such as
Ageas, NN and Aegon still offer more upside with lower capital uncertainty.
 Capital shortfall: In our view, DL needs an additional €1.2bn capital to
become a proper dividend-paying stock and this capital injection would take
DL to around 155% standard model-based Solvency II, which in our view is
an OK solvency position. No asset disposal is assumed in our analysis.
 Free cash flow: Based on our deep dive on Solvency II-type free cash
flows, we forecast DL’s FCF at around €300m (post the €1.2bn capital
injection), which is c.10% FCF yield. Due to uncertainties around
management actions, we have shown different scenarios where we see FCF
yield in a 9-15% range. Highest yield is in a scenario of no capital injection,
but in that scenario cash flows to shareholders would suffer for 3-4 years, we
believe, as they will be retained to build capital position.
 Free cash flow-based intrinsic valuation is around €3bn (including
€1.2bn capital injection). This implies that the stock is trading at fair value
(MCAP + capital injection). Based on scenarios, the upside/downside is in
the range of -1% to +50%, with +50% being a theoretical exercise with no
capital injection scenario. However, in that scenario we see higher
regulatory pressure i.e. no capital return to s/h in the near future.
 Overall, we maintain our UW on DL, even though we don’t see any
material downside as we prefer NN, Ageas and Aegon, where we see
material upside with strong capital and somewhat similar free cash flow
yield of 8%-10%. We cut our price target from €17.78 (Dec-15) to €7.56
(Dec-16) to reflect the dilution from €1.2bn assumed capital injection

 

[Joe Silver]

Odebrecht

Premesso che siamo ot perché qui si parla di sub e perpetui bancari (o assicurativi ) (il 3d giusto é quello hy)il titolo in questione é senior

Sì, è senior ma non siamo OT perché è perpetuo

Segnalo ai più arditi che c'è un'altra emissione simile con cedola 7% ad un prezzo da super-saldo (l'ultima volta che l'ho guardata stava sui 40). Taglio popolare da 200k

 

[Joe Silver]

Delta

JPM su DL

Focus on Solvency II type free cash generation; in line
with peers but with weak capital position, maintain UW ▼
Price: €7.25
Price Target: €7.56
Previous: €17.78

Price Performance
Delta Lloyd’s shares are down 55% post 1H15 results, mainly on concerns on
capital and dividend. We believe the key topics to answer at the moment are:
1) capital shortfall, 2) free cash flow yield and 3) intrinsic value of the
company. We believe that the minimum capital shortfall (to become a
dividend-paying stock) is c. €1.2bn, which is what we are assuming in our
base case valuation and earnings. In terms of Solvency II free cash flow, we
believe that it is c.€300m i.e. roughly 10% FCF yield (after €1.2bn cap raise)
and the intrinsic value of the company is around €3.0bn (with €1.2bn capital
injection). On this basis, we believe DL’s shares aren’t expensive and could
be interesting if the capital and dividend overhang is removed. However, we
maintain our UW on DL as on a relative basis as we believe that peers such as
Ageas, NN and Aegon still offer more upside with lower capital uncertainty.
 Capital shortfall: In our view, DL needs an additional €1.2bn capital to
become a proper dividend-paying stock and this capital injection would take
DL to around 155% standard model-based Solvency II, which in our view is
an OK solvency position. No asset disposal is assumed in our analysis.
 Free cash flow: Based on our deep dive on Solvency II-type free cash
flows, we forecast DL’s FCF at around €300m (post the €1.2bn capital
injection), which is c.10% FCF yield. Due to uncertainties around
management actions, we have shown different scenarios where we see FCF
yield in a 9-15% range. Highest yield is in a scenario of no capital injection,
but in that scenario cash flows to shareholders would suffer for 3-4 years, we
believe, as they will be retained to build capital position.
 Free cash flow-based intrinsic valuation is around €3bn (including
€1.2bn capital injection). This implies that the stock is trading at fair value
(MCAP + capital injection). Based on scenarios, the upside/downside is in
the range of -1% to +50%, with +50% being a theoretical exercise with no
capital injection scenario. However, in that scenario we see higher
regulatory pressure i.e. no capital return to s/h in the near future.
 Overall, we maintain our UW on DL, even though we don’t see any
material downside as we prefer NN, Ageas and Aegon, where we see
material upside with strong capital and somewhat similar free cash flow
yield of 8%-10%. We cut our price target from €17.78 (Dec-15) to €7.56
(Dec-16) to reflect the dilution from €1.2bn assumed capital injection

Ma questa 'assumed capital injection' quando diavolo si concretizzerà?

JPM prevede niente dividendi per 3-4 anni senza adc...ed in questo caso (mia aggiunta) magari ci potrebbe stare pure una sospensione delle cedole dei perpetui, stile Srlev

 

[Cat XL]

Ma questa 'assumed capital injection' quando diavolo si concretizzerà?

JPM prevede niente dividendi per 3-4 anni senza adc...ed in questo caso (mia aggiunta) magari ci potrebbe stare pure una sospensione delle cedole dei perpetui, stile Srlev

Il 2 di Novembre credo ma non sono sicuro della data ci sara' l'investor day dove Delta comunichera' i passi che intende intraprendere.

 

[darkog]

Ma questa 'assumed capital injection' quando diavolo si concretizzerà?

JPM prevede niente dividendi per 3-4 anni senza adc...ed in questo caso (mia aggiunta) magari ci potrebbe stare pure una sospensione delle cedole dei perpetui, stile Srlev

Il 2 di Novembre credo ma non ne sono sicuro ci sara' l'investor day dove Delta comunichera' i passi che intende intraprendere.

Nei giorni scorsi sono entrato sulla 589.
Spero di non aver anticipato troppo.