tommy271
Forumer storico
Semprechè non vi sia un disegno in questo senso...
Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 2 (1 Viewer)
- Creatore Discussione tommy271
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Semprechè non vi sia un disegno in questo senso...
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Addirittura?
L'idea mi ha sempre affascinato.
Ci ho pure pensato un po' su.
Apparire stupidi e far crollare i mercati...Per...Non so...Ricomprare e bruciare debito in cambio di altro genere di favori? (nel caso della Merkel di certo non sessuali e qui, il Berlusca, comunque, ha ragione?).
Potenti organizzazioni che stavano short e che hanno preteso un tributo di sangue a fronte dei 6t€ di debito europeo?
Non lo so: prima credevo che i politici facessero finta di essere stupidi, adesso, invece, comincio a credere che lo siano davvero.
Cioè sto abbandonando la teoria del complotto, dell'attacco all'euro di Soros & company (o di un colpo di stato alle democrazie in generale) e via dicendo.
Credevate facessimo finta?
Nono, siamo proprio cojoni, diffidate dalle imitazioni.
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
tommy271
Forumer storico
Schäuble: "Non permetteremo un collasso dell'Euro '
Pubblicato: Lunedi November 21, 2011
Web-Only
"Non permetteremo che l'euro al collasso ha detto il ministro delle Finanze tedesco Wolfgang Schaeuble.
In un'intervista con il giornale Sächsische Zeitung, il signor Schaeuble ha detto che "la sfida è quella di difendere i fondamenti della nostra prosperità."
Secondo il ministro tedesco per gli scenari di collasso economico e allarmismo non è giustificato. "Spero e credo che saremo in grado di stabilizzare l'area dell'euro", ha detto.
(Ta Nea)
Pubblicato: Lunedi November 21, 2011
Web-Only
"Non permetteremo che l'euro al collasso ha detto il ministro delle Finanze tedesco Wolfgang Schaeuble.
In un'intervista con il giornale Sächsische Zeitung, il signor Schaeuble ha detto che "la sfida è quella di difendere i fondamenti della nostra prosperità."
Secondo il ministro tedesco per gli scenari di collasso economico e allarmismo non è giustificato. "Spero e credo che saremo in grado di stabilizzare l'area dell'euro", ha detto.
(Ta Nea)
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
tommy271
Forumer storico
Non che i "politici" siano tutti uguali od una categoria a se stante.
Guarda solo le posizioni all'interno del PPE ... andiamo dalla Merkel a Samaras per passare attraverso Casini e Berlusconi.
A me pare che la Germania sia fortemente impegnata nel difendere l'Eurozona, ma piegandola alla propria dottrina.
Quando saremo giunti sul punto di rottura, a quel punto o l'Europa si adegua alla Germania o il centro/sud europa chiederà l'uscita dei tedeschi ...
giub
New Membro
January pensions in the air, says labor minister
If Greece does not receive the sixth tranche of aid funding from the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, it may be unable to meet its financial commitments in December, the labor minister said on Tuesday morning.
Speaking on Skai TV, Giorgos Koutroumanis said that unless Greece's creditors agree to disburse 8 billion euros of funding within the month, the state may be unable to pay workers' Christmas bonuses or pensions for January.
He also said that subsidiary are in for further reductions of up to 20 percent, and maybe even 50 percent, over the course of a few months, while this reduction will probably also affect existing pensioners and not just newly pensioned workers.
The labor minister said that the simultaneous payment of salaries, social security benefits and income tax will begin on March 1, adding that the so-called «work card,» or an electronic record of payments, will also go into effect on the same date and that businesses using the electronic system may be given a break on social security payments by up to 10 percent.
Koutroumanis agreed that social security benefits are too steep for many businesses and confirmed that the ministry is planning to provide some reductions, especially in sectors that can generate employment.
Monday November 21, 2011 (10:51)
Speaking on Skai TV, Giorgos Koutroumanis said that unless Greece's creditors agree to disburse 8 billion euros of funding within the month, the state may be unable to pay workers' Christmas bonuses or pensions for January.
He also said that subsidiary are in for further reductions of up to 20 percent, and maybe even 50 percent, over the course of a few months, while this reduction will probably also affect existing pensioners and not just newly pensioned workers.
The labor minister said that the simultaneous payment of salaries, social security benefits and income tax will begin on March 1, adding that the so-called «work card,» or an electronic record of payments, will also go into effect on the same date and that businesses using the electronic system may be given a break on social security payments by up to 10 percent.
Koutroumanis agreed that social security benefits are too steep for many businesses and confirmed that the ministry is planning to provide some reductions, especially in sectors that can generate employment.
Monday November 21, 2011 (10:51)
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Tu sei molto più esperto di storia di me e quindi penso di prenderci quando dico che la Germania che cerca di indottrinare è una storia abbastanza risaputa.
Secondo me siamo già al punto di rottura, guarda se non fanno disegnare agli indici un bel doppio minimo con riferimento ai minimi di agosto (tanto un viaggio in quella zona lo abbiamo retto, perchè non farci un altro giro per convincere i tedeschi).
Per quel che riguarda l'uscita della Germania, non credo proprio che gli convenga alla Germania, con il suo nuovo-super-DM (indipendentemente dal fatto che fuori della Sparkasse a Monaco su un leone di metallo incredibilmente kitch, come solo i tedeschi concepiscono, stava scritto 100$=1DM a rimarcare il loro sentimentalismo).
Faranno così: Eurobond, EFSF, BCE o chi per loro con controlli più stretti sulla crescita, anche senza dover mettere mano ai vari trattati subito, tanto basta che siano tutti daccordo.
Però stavolta bisognera "coprirla" questa carta.
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
giub
New Membro
COLUMN - The euro zone's self-fulfilling spiral: Hugo Dixon
on Nov 21, 2011 11:08am IST
(Hugo Dixon is the founder and editor of Reuters Breakingviews. The opinions expressed are his own)
By Hugo Dixon
(Reuters) - When confidence in a regime's permanence is shaken, it can collapse rapidly. The fear or hope of change alters people's behavior in ways which make that change more likely. This applies to both political regimes such as Hosni Mubarak's Egypt and economic regimes such as the euro.
Fear that the single currency may break up now risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Banks and investors are beginning to act as if the single currency might fall apart. Politicians and the European Central Bank need to restore belief that the single currency is here to stay. Otherwise, it could unravel pretty fast.
Until a few weeks ago, the idea that the euro wouldn't survive the current debt crisis was a fringe view. Since the euro summit on Oct. 26-27, it has become a mainstream scenario. So much so that last week risk premiums on the bonds of even triple-A rated countries such as France and Austria rose to record levels, while Spain became the latest country to be sucked into the danger zone.
The summit itself made two technical decisions which have had damaging, unintended consequences. First, banks underwent a stress test that marked their sovereign bond exposures to market whereas previously regulators maintained the fiction that these positions were risk-free. This meant that lenders suddenly had to start holding capital to back their sovereign debt investments. Not surprisingly, they have become more reluctant to buy bonds. This, in turn, has made it harder for governments to fund themselves.
Second, the summit decided to strong-arm the banks into agreeing to a "voluntary" debt restructuring for Greece. Because the deal is supposedly voluntary, credit default swaps (CDS) - a type of insurance policy that pays out if an entity goes bust - won't be triggered. This arm-twisting has convinced lenders that CDSs are a useless way of hedging the risk of investing in euro zone government bonds. Without a hedge, many prefer not to hold the bonds at all - again making it harder for states to fund themselves.
After the summit, things went from bad to worse with Greece's disastrous plan to call a referendum on its latest bailout plan. That idea was withdrawn - but not before Germany and France suggested that Athens might need to be kicked out of the euro unless it came to heel. The snag is that it would be very hard to isolate the Greeks. If one country could leave the single currency, why not two, three or all 17?
As investors thought about the possibility of a euro break-up, they started factoring in currency risk. Under such a scenario, the new Greek drachma would plummet in value; the new Italian lira and Spanish peseta would also take a tumble; even the new French franc would depreciate versus a vibrant new Deutsche Mark. That gave the market another reason to sell pretty much every non-German government bond - again making it harder for those states to fund themselves.
As if this wasn't bad enough, banks are also suffering from a liquidity squeeze. It's not just investors who are getting jittery about putting their money in banks; lenders are reluctant to lend to each other because they are not totally sure that their peers will survive.
Banks outside the euro zone are also cutting their lines of credit to those inside the zone. The big four UK banks cut interbank loans by around a quarter in the three months to end September, according to data compiled by the Financial Times. Meanwhile, the United States is about to embark on a new stress tests of its lenders. This will include contingency planning against further disruptions in Europe. It wouldn't be surprising if this provoked American banks to cut their exposure to their euro counterparts, further exacerbating their funding problems.
These vicious spirals have drowned out the good news on the political front. Italy, Greece and now Spain have new prime ministers, all of whom seem intent on cutting debts and making their economies fitter. But they will struggle to reduce their borrowing costs unless investors can be convinced that the euro is here to stay.
The one thing that probably would restore confidence is if the ECB found some way of supporting governments that were pursuing sensible policies. But the central bank itself and Germany, the euro zone's main paymaster, have so far resisted this. In part, this is because they think governments won't have a strong incentive to reform if they are bailed out too easily.
The logic of making countries sweat so that they address problems they have shirked for years, and sometimes decades, is a good one. But the ECB and Germany should remember that carrots are useful incentives, as well as sticks - and, if they don't provide the carrot soon, the euro may not survive.
on Nov 21, 2011 11:08am IST
(Hugo Dixon is the founder and editor of Reuters Breakingviews. The opinions expressed are his own)
By Hugo Dixon
(Reuters) - When confidence in a regime's permanence is shaken, it can collapse rapidly. The fear or hope of change alters people's behavior in ways which make that change more likely. This applies to both political regimes such as Hosni Mubarak's Egypt and economic regimes such as the euro.
Fear that the single currency may break up now risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Banks and investors are beginning to act as if the single currency might fall apart. Politicians and the European Central Bank need to restore belief that the single currency is here to stay. Otherwise, it could unravel pretty fast.
Until a few weeks ago, the idea that the euro wouldn't survive the current debt crisis was a fringe view. Since the euro summit on Oct. 26-27, it has become a mainstream scenario. So much so that last week risk premiums on the bonds of even triple-A rated countries such as France and Austria rose to record levels, while Spain became the latest country to be sucked into the danger zone.
The summit itself made two technical decisions which have had damaging, unintended consequences. First, banks underwent a stress test that marked their sovereign bond exposures to market whereas previously regulators maintained the fiction that these positions were risk-free. This meant that lenders suddenly had to start holding capital to back their sovereign debt investments. Not surprisingly, they have become more reluctant to buy bonds. This, in turn, has made it harder for governments to fund themselves.
Second, the summit decided to strong-arm the banks into agreeing to a "voluntary" debt restructuring for Greece. Because the deal is supposedly voluntary, credit default swaps (CDS) - a type of insurance policy that pays out if an entity goes bust - won't be triggered. This arm-twisting has convinced lenders that CDSs are a useless way of hedging the risk of investing in euro zone government bonds. Without a hedge, many prefer not to hold the bonds at all - again making it harder for states to fund themselves.
After the summit, things went from bad to worse with Greece's disastrous plan to call a referendum on its latest bailout plan. That idea was withdrawn - but not before Germany and France suggested that Athens might need to be kicked out of the euro unless it came to heel. The snag is that it would be very hard to isolate the Greeks. If one country could leave the single currency, why not two, three or all 17?
As investors thought about the possibility of a euro break-up, they started factoring in currency risk. Under such a scenario, the new Greek drachma would plummet in value; the new Italian lira and Spanish peseta would also take a tumble; even the new French franc would depreciate versus a vibrant new Deutsche Mark. That gave the market another reason to sell pretty much every non-German government bond - again making it harder for those states to fund themselves.
As if this wasn't bad enough, banks are also suffering from a liquidity squeeze. It's not just investors who are getting jittery about putting their money in banks; lenders are reluctant to lend to each other because they are not totally sure that their peers will survive.
Banks outside the euro zone are also cutting their lines of credit to those inside the zone. The big four UK banks cut interbank loans by around a quarter in the three months to end September, according to data compiled by the Financial Times. Meanwhile, the United States is about to embark on a new stress tests of its lenders. This will include contingency planning against further disruptions in Europe. It wouldn't be surprising if this provoked American banks to cut their exposure to their euro counterparts, further exacerbating their funding problems.
These vicious spirals have drowned out the good news on the political front. Italy, Greece and now Spain have new prime ministers, all of whom seem intent on cutting debts and making their economies fitter. But they will struggle to reduce their borrowing costs unless investors can be convinced that the euro is here to stay.
The one thing that probably would restore confidence is if the ECB found some way of supporting governments that were pursuing sensible policies. But the central bank itself and Germany, the euro zone's main paymaster, have so far resisted this. In part, this is because they think governments won't have a strong incentive to reform if they are bailed out too easily.
The logic of making countries sweat so that they address problems they have shirked for years, and sometimes decades, is a good one. But the ECB and Germany should remember that carrots are useful incentives, as well as sticks - and, if they don't provide the carrot soon, the euro may not survive.
Topgun1976
Guest
Il disegno è evidente da tempo..Tutti sapevano che dopo la Grecia c'era il Potogallo e L'Irlanda,poi Spagna e Italia,adesso Francia Belgio e Austria,poi si arriverà a Olanda e Germania
Ma è evidente che ai crucchi stà bene questa situazione,pagano tassi ridicoli,impongono leggi e regole a tutti gli stati ecc...Vediamo cosa farà Sarkò
tommy271
Forumer storico
Completati i negoziati con la Troika. L'unica domanda che rimane è quello che le firme dei leader politici
PUBBLICAZIONE: prima di 0 '
http://www.tovima.gr/#
Partito da Atene, il capo della Troika, e negoziati si sono conclusi senza alcun problema e ora è ora l'unico problema che rimane è che le firme dei leader politici, almeno secondo quello che dicono al Ministero delle Finanze.
Le due parti hanno concordato riferito il contenuto del nuovo accordo di prestito e l'aggiornamento del memorandum.
Domenica, partito da Atene, il signor Mathias Morse da parte della Commissione e del signor Klaus Mazouch BCE, ora lasciato il Sig. Paul Thomsen del FMI.
(To Vima)
PUBBLICAZIONE: prima di 0 '
http://www.tovima.gr/#
Partito da Atene, il capo della Troika, e negoziati si sono conclusi senza alcun problema e ora è ora l'unico problema che rimane è che le firme dei leader politici, almeno secondo quello che dicono al Ministero delle Finanze.
Le due parti hanno concordato riferito il contenuto del nuovo accordo di prestito e l'aggiornamento del memorandum.
Domenica, partito da Atene, il signor Mathias Morse da parte della Commissione e del signor Klaus Mazouch BCE, ora lasciato il Sig. Paul Thomsen del FMI.
(To Vima)
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