fenox
Forumer storico
sono già in clear
Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 2
- Creatore Discussione tommy271
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
sono già in clear
Ilmigliore
Osserva e agisci
stavo per scriverlo io... le cedole e i rimborsi si erogano 3 giorni prima
bosmeld
Forumer storico
una foto che fa pensare...
A man sets himself on fire outside a bank branch in Thessaloniki in northern Greece September 16, 2011. The 55-year old man had entered the bank and asked for a renegotiation of his overdue loan payments on his home and business, according to police, which he could not pay, but was refused by the bank. REUTERS/Nodas Stylianidis/www.photoreportage.gr
Photos of the week | Reuters.com
A man sets himself on fire outside a bank branch in Thessaloniki in northern Greece September 16, 2011. The 55-year old man had entered the bank and asked for a renegotiation of his overdue loan payments on his home and business, according to police, which he could not pay, but was refused by the bank. REUTERS/Nodas Stylianidis/www.photoreportage.gr
Photos of the week | Reuters.com
LUP1051
Guest
, grazie.
carib
rerum cognoscere causas
Munchau (FT di domani)
In Berlin, there is now a consensus among senior policymakers that Greece is very likely to default inside the eurozone, but not right away. By the time it happens, the European financial stability facility will be empowered to protect European banks directly. Those who advocate this approach clearly hope that the improved institutional set-up will be sufficient to deal with contagion.
The EU will go down this path because it is the easiest to get onto. I doubt, however, that it will get them anywhere – because the crisis has now spread to Italy. The EFSF and its successor, the European Stability Mechanism, have been set up to handle small countries. They are not big enough to handle large countries. Besides, Italy does not have a short-term funding gap, but a long-term solvency problem. With debt of 120 per cent of gross domestic product, a potential real economic growth rate of around 1 per cent, and a long-term interest rate of 5-6 per cent, Italy’s debt sustainability is in doubt. A monetary union, which solves crises through a combination of default and backstops for the financial sector, would hardly solve Italy’s problem.
The concept of a default union could work in a monetary union with a strong core and a weak periphery, but not in one where weakness has encroached into the core. The Buiter/Rahbari scenario could have worked if the European Council had set up the institutions necessary for crisis six months ago. A periphery that includes Italy and Spain is too big to save with the current limited liability process, and too big to default without causing an enormous financial crisis.
The spread of the crisis to Italy is why I believe a eurobond and a fiscal union are the only way out. Even a long-term process with the ultimate goal of a eurobond could be sufficient. But it must be credible. If it is, then the EFSF or even the ECB may buy as many bonds as it takes to stabilise market interest rates.
The chances that we are moving in that direction have recently diminished. The ruling of the German constitutional court has raised legislative hurdles, while political hostility is rising. We are moving away from what I consider the only effective solution to the crisis. This means, by extension, that we are moving closer towards an involuntary break-up.
In Berlin, there is now a consensus among senior policymakers that Greece is very likely to default inside the eurozone, but not right away. By the time it happens, the European financial stability facility will be empowered to protect European banks directly. Those who advocate this approach clearly hope that the improved institutional set-up will be sufficient to deal with contagion.
The EU will go down this path because it is the easiest to get onto. I doubt, however, that it will get them anywhere – because the crisis has now spread to Italy. The EFSF and its successor, the European Stability Mechanism, have been set up to handle small countries. They are not big enough to handle large countries. Besides, Italy does not have a short-term funding gap, but a long-term solvency problem. With debt of 120 per cent of gross domestic product, a potential real economic growth rate of around 1 per cent, and a long-term interest rate of 5-6 per cent, Italy’s debt sustainability is in doubt. A monetary union, which solves crises through a combination of default and backstops for the financial sector, would hardly solve Italy’s problem.
The concept of a default union could work in a monetary union with a strong core and a weak periphery, but not in one where weakness has encroached into the core. The Buiter/Rahbari scenario could have worked if the European Council had set up the institutions necessary for crisis six months ago. A periphery that includes Italy and Spain is too big to save with the current limited liability process, and too big to default without causing an enormous financial crisis.
The spread of the crisis to Italy is why I believe a eurobond and a fiscal union are the only way out. Even a long-term process with the ultimate goal of a eurobond could be sufficient. But it must be credible. If it is, then the EFSF or even the ECB may buy as many bonds as it takes to stabilise market interest rates.
The chances that we are moving in that direction have recently diminished. The ruling of the German constitutional court has raised legislative hurdles, while political hostility is rising. We are moving away from what I consider the only effective solution to the crisis. This means, by extension, that we are moving closer towards an involuntary break-up.
PASTELLETTO
Guest
Esattamente quello che penso io.
Il buco Italia / Spagna non si può nascondere in eterno, prima o poi qualcuno bussa a quattrini, altro che too big to fail.
Non si può continuare a vendere carta in eterno che siano eurobond o buoni postali.
Bisogna vendere roba: che so, tecnologia, ricerca, qualsiasi cosa.
Nel caso dell'Italia, poi, se non torniamo a crescere, sono cazz|.
Poichè è impossibile pensare che cambi la mentalità italiana prima che il debito inizi a scadere (basta vedere le riunioni padane di questo weekend o il rigurgito di sparatorie a Roma), l'unico futuro che vedo è un progressivo vendere assets ad paesi esteri, già iniziato da qualche anno, cioè una forma di commissariamento in modo da incentivare la produzione e troncare le varie famiglie, famigliole e mafie, ammesso che ci si riesca.
Nonostante io sia un convinto sostenitore dell'Italia, purtroppo sono sempre più pessimista.
Spero che i fatti mi smentiscano.
Già ho girato parecchio pt sull'azionario tedesco e me n'è rimasto pochissimo sui TdS nostrani.
Chiuso con la Grecia, per adesso, troppi casini, troppa volatilità.
Se proprio devo fare una scommessa, scommetto sulla risalita del mercato tedesco.
Ultima modifica di un moderatore:
Grisù
Forumer attivo
Venizelos: Our obligation to limit the state
The Finance Minister stressed that we must achieve our financial objectives, we have primary surpluses and promote any structural changes. "Fire" by Antonis Samaras. Meet Provopoulos, Papandreou and the Finance Ministry officials had earlier Ev. Venizelos.
Emergency government meeting held Sunday afternoon at the office of prime minister to parliament, convened by Prime Minister George Papandreou, after postponing his trip to the U.S. after being informed by telephone by the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos, the attitude European partners meeting of the Eurogroup and Ecofin in Poland.
The finance minister, Evangelos Venizelos, after the Cabinet meeting, said, inter alia:
"He has shaped the world economy is a fluid and nerve condition, which enables speculators to organize attacks in the heart of the euro. It is very important for Greece to protect. The government assumes responsibility for implementing the program is committed. The decisions of July is the vital for the eurozone. This time questioning the ability of Greece. This can not continue. What I say now, is the leader of the opposition. It is very unpleasant to be said such things by official lips, which cost the country. We must be responsible, serious and sincere. A language exists: that of truth. "
The Finance Minister stressed that we must achieve our financial objectives, we have primary surpluses and promote any structural changes, and added that "the government commission formed a clear framework, which will move Monday in a conference call with our European partners '.
"The big goal for us is to reduce costs, reduce the state. This is our obligation, "said Mr. Venizelos.
The enlarged meeting of the Governmental Committee, chaired by Mr Papandreou attended by ministers Dimitris Reppas, Andreas Loverdos, John Ragousis, Diamantopoulou, George Papakonstantinou, Kastanidis Harris, Michael Chrisochoïdis, Christos Papoutsis, Costas Skandalidis, George and Elias Mossialos Koutroumanis .
Before the start of the meeting was preceded by a meeting of George Papandreou, Evangelos Venizelos, in which the prime minister and vice finance minister and discussed in detail what diimeifthisan meetings of the Eurogroup and Ecofin, and the demands imposed by the European partners.
From what these developments show that Europeans do not seem to be convinced by the progress so far in the economy and require drastic measures. The Finance Ministry met occasionally with the Governor of the Bank of Greece, George Provopoulos. Intense discussions are in government circles for new measures such as freezing recruitment and increases in indirect taxes.
Moreover, the prime minister is expected to make a new round of contacts with other political leaders. Regarding the scenario of early elections, there seems to be employed by the present government, but the discussions towards this increase.
Specifically, the points that Mr. Venizelos said in his speech:
A. Strategic decisions
Three strategic decisions taken by the Cabinet at its special meeting convened by Prime Minister after the discussions in the Eurogroup and Ecofin, the last day in Poland.
As stated by Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister, Evangelos Venizelos, if the country wants to avoid bankruptcy and ceased to be blackmailed and humiliated must:
- First, to achieve their financial goals, closing the 2011 budget
- Second, to achieve the earliest possible primary surpluses, which would shield the country to cease to debt.
- Third, to promote direct all structural changes to become productive and competitive, the Greek economy.
Mr. Venizelos pointed out that these three strategic options contained in the Medium Term Plan and voted should be specified in the coming days.
The Finance Minister said that under this framework will take place tomorrow early afternoon conference call with the Troika and then re-convene the Cabinet to refine this framework that includes basically cuts in public spending.
Mr. Venizelos criticized the main opposition leader, Antonis Samaras, for announcements about tax relief and rehabilitation of low-wage announced by the TIF even though, as he said he had been informed in detail on all aspects of the discussions with European partners.
In addition, Mr. Venizelos also criticized those who have said such "easy" public reason "feeds the stereotypes against Greece and undermine the credibility of the effort the country." Mr. Venizelos said that "easy" plea leads the troika to make a calculation part of the announced measures so that the pressures for additional measures.
B. Measures after the teleconference, 'fire' in Samara
In the new Cabinet meeting, which will meet after the teleconference of the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos with the heads of the troika will specialize measures-mainly cost cutting in the public-decided to take at a meeting of the enlarged Government Commission, under Prime Minister George Papandreou.
If we want to avoid bankruptcy and stop the country to be blackmailed and humiliated, we must take three critical decisions: to meet budgetary targets, to achieve primary surpluses and to move promptly any structural changes, noted in his statements, Mr. Venizelos, who briefed members of the Governmental Commission for what diimeifthisan the three-day meeting of the Eurogroup in Poland.
Has developed at European and international level a volatile situation that creates multiple problems and allows spekouladorous to organize attacks in the heart of the euro, he said and explained that in this tense situation is important not to make Greece a scapegoat.
The deputy prime minister launched an attack against the president of Southwest Antonis Samaras, saying he felt "painful surprise" with what he said in Thessaloniki, where, as he added, had the same information as that is the prime minister about the situation. "Everything that is said to have dire consequences for the income of every Greek citizen," Mr. Venizelos said, adding: "If Mr. Samaras believes that he can go and charmed his interlocutors with his proposals for tax reduction I think there is a clear picture of what happens. "
Wide meeting in the Finance Ministry by Venizelos
Wide meeting in the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister, Evangelos Venizelos, held in Treasury. Examined the data for the Greek economy and the actions to be taken next time to come in the afternoon Cabinet meeting.
The meeting, attended by deputy ministers of Finance, Philip Sachinidis and Pantelis Economou, Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, George Zanias, and other officials. Before the meeting, Mr. Venizelos met at the Ministry of Finance, the Governor of the Bank of Greece, George Provopoulos.
The prime minister returned from London occasionally
In canceling his trip to U.S. participation in UN General Assembly has the Prime Minister, George Papandreou, who was on Friday in London.
According to information from the Prime Minister occasionally returned to Athens after a telephone conversation with Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Ev. Venizelos, who conveyed the atmosphere of mistrust of the European Partners for the Greek economy.
From the press office of prime minister, issued the following statement: "Because next week is critical for the implementation of decisions of July 21 in the eurozone and the initiatives to be undertaken by the country, Prime Minister, George Papandreou, has decided to defer planned visit to the United States. "
Contact Venizelos-Samara
Telephone conversation with President of New Democracy Antonis Samaras was Saturday afternoon, Evangelos Venizelos, the initiative of Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.
According to information from sources of opposition, Mr. Venizelos said the chairman of Southwest, who is in Thessaloniki for the TIF, the difficulties, but the critical hours towards implementation of the decisions of July 21.
Mosialos explanations for the return Papandreou
"On the fluid international environment and disagreements within the European countries', attributed the postponement of the trip of Prime Minister George Papandreou, U.S. State Minister and government spokesman Elias Mossialos a brief speech in the central news of Mega.
"Do not give anyone the right to play with the fate of the country," said Mr. Mosialos, and announced that Sunday would be no governmental meetings, which will examine the situation.
The Finance Minister stressed that we must achieve our financial objectives, we have primary surpluses and promote any structural changes. "Fire" by Antonis Samaras. Meet Provopoulos, Papandreou and the Finance Ministry officials had earlier Ev. Venizelos.
Emergency government meeting held Sunday afternoon at the office of prime minister to parliament, convened by Prime Minister George Papandreou, after postponing his trip to the U.S. after being informed by telephone by the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos, the attitude European partners meeting of the Eurogroup and Ecofin in Poland.
The finance minister, Evangelos Venizelos, after the Cabinet meeting, said, inter alia:
"He has shaped the world economy is a fluid and nerve condition, which enables speculators to organize attacks in the heart of the euro. It is very important for Greece to protect. The government assumes responsibility for implementing the program is committed. The decisions of July is the vital for the eurozone. This time questioning the ability of Greece. This can not continue. What I say now, is the leader of the opposition. It is very unpleasant to be said such things by official lips, which cost the country. We must be responsible, serious and sincere. A language exists: that of truth. "
The Finance Minister stressed that we must achieve our financial objectives, we have primary surpluses and promote any structural changes, and added that "the government commission formed a clear framework, which will move Monday in a conference call with our European partners '.
"The big goal for us is to reduce costs, reduce the state. This is our obligation, "said Mr. Venizelos.
The enlarged meeting of the Governmental Committee, chaired by Mr Papandreou attended by ministers Dimitris Reppas, Andreas Loverdos, John Ragousis, Diamantopoulou, George Papakonstantinou, Kastanidis Harris, Michael Chrisochoïdis, Christos Papoutsis, Costas Skandalidis, George and Elias Mossialos Koutroumanis .
Before the start of the meeting was preceded by a meeting of George Papandreou, Evangelos Venizelos, in which the prime minister and vice finance minister and discussed in detail what diimeifthisan meetings of the Eurogroup and Ecofin, and the demands imposed by the European partners.
From what these developments show that Europeans do not seem to be convinced by the progress so far in the economy and require drastic measures. The Finance Ministry met occasionally with the Governor of the Bank of Greece, George Provopoulos. Intense discussions are in government circles for new measures such as freezing recruitment and increases in indirect taxes.
Moreover, the prime minister is expected to make a new round of contacts with other political leaders. Regarding the scenario of early elections, there seems to be employed by the present government, but the discussions towards this increase.
Specifically, the points that Mr. Venizelos said in his speech:
A. Strategic decisions
Three strategic decisions taken by the Cabinet at its special meeting convened by Prime Minister after the discussions in the Eurogroup and Ecofin, the last day in Poland.
As stated by Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister, Evangelos Venizelos, if the country wants to avoid bankruptcy and ceased to be blackmailed and humiliated must:
- First, to achieve their financial goals, closing the 2011 budget
- Second, to achieve the earliest possible primary surpluses, which would shield the country to cease to debt.
- Third, to promote direct all structural changes to become productive and competitive, the Greek economy.
Mr. Venizelos pointed out that these three strategic options contained in the Medium Term Plan and voted should be specified in the coming days.
The Finance Minister said that under this framework will take place tomorrow early afternoon conference call with the Troika and then re-convene the Cabinet to refine this framework that includes basically cuts in public spending.
Mr. Venizelos criticized the main opposition leader, Antonis Samaras, for announcements about tax relief and rehabilitation of low-wage announced by the TIF even though, as he said he had been informed in detail on all aspects of the discussions with European partners.
In addition, Mr. Venizelos also criticized those who have said such "easy" public reason "feeds the stereotypes against Greece and undermine the credibility of the effort the country." Mr. Venizelos said that "easy" plea leads the troika to make a calculation part of the announced measures so that the pressures for additional measures.
B. Measures after the teleconference, 'fire' in Samara
In the new Cabinet meeting, which will meet after the teleconference of the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos with the heads of the troika will specialize measures-mainly cost cutting in the public-decided to take at a meeting of the enlarged Government Commission, under Prime Minister George Papandreou.
If we want to avoid bankruptcy and stop the country to be blackmailed and humiliated, we must take three critical decisions: to meet budgetary targets, to achieve primary surpluses and to move promptly any structural changes, noted in his statements, Mr. Venizelos, who briefed members of the Governmental Commission for what diimeifthisan the three-day meeting of the Eurogroup in Poland.
Has developed at European and international level a volatile situation that creates multiple problems and allows spekouladorous to organize attacks in the heart of the euro, he said and explained that in this tense situation is important not to make Greece a scapegoat.
The deputy prime minister launched an attack against the president of Southwest Antonis Samaras, saying he felt "painful surprise" with what he said in Thessaloniki, where, as he added, had the same information as that is the prime minister about the situation. "Everything that is said to have dire consequences for the income of every Greek citizen," Mr. Venizelos said, adding: "If Mr. Samaras believes that he can go and charmed his interlocutors with his proposals for tax reduction I think there is a clear picture of what happens. "
Wide meeting in the Finance Ministry by Venizelos
Wide meeting in the Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister, Evangelos Venizelos, held in Treasury. Examined the data for the Greek economy and the actions to be taken next time to come in the afternoon Cabinet meeting.
The meeting, attended by deputy ministers of Finance, Philip Sachinidis and Pantelis Economou, Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, George Zanias, and other officials. Before the meeting, Mr. Venizelos met at the Ministry of Finance, the Governor of the Bank of Greece, George Provopoulos.
The prime minister returned from London occasionally
In canceling his trip to U.S. participation in UN General Assembly has the Prime Minister, George Papandreou, who was on Friday in London.
According to information from the Prime Minister occasionally returned to Athens after a telephone conversation with Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Ev. Venizelos, who conveyed the atmosphere of mistrust of the European Partners for the Greek economy.
From the press office of prime minister, issued the following statement: "Because next week is critical for the implementation of decisions of July 21 in the eurozone and the initiatives to be undertaken by the country, Prime Minister, George Papandreou, has decided to defer planned visit to the United States. "
Contact Venizelos-Samara
Telephone conversation with President of New Democracy Antonis Samaras was Saturday afternoon, Evangelos Venizelos, the initiative of Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.
According to information from sources of opposition, Mr. Venizelos said the chairman of Southwest, who is in Thessaloniki for the TIF, the difficulties, but the critical hours towards implementation of the decisions of July 21.
Mosialos explanations for the return Papandreou
"On the fluid international environment and disagreements within the European countries', attributed the postponement of the trip of Prime Minister George Papandreou, U.S. State Minister and government spokesman Elias Mossialos a brief speech in the central news of Mega.
"Do not give anyone the right to play with the fate of the country," said Mr. Mosialos, and announced that Sunday would be no governmental meetings, which will examine the situation.
gualberto
Charlie don't Surf
Andre_Sant
Forumer storico
le cedole del 20 sono già state pagate dalla grecia.
si lavora in valuta t+3, quindi la grecia ha già consegnato a clearstorm i pagamenti
ciao
LUP1051
Guest
Naturalmente mi auguro che abbiate ragione.
Ho appena controllato, Intesa cedole non (ancora) accreditate.
- Stato
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