Obbligazioni bancarie MONITOR Principali banche mondiali (1 Viewer)

yellow

Forumer attivo
:titanic::titanic::titanic: Temo che a breve ( giorni/settimane 1- 2 ? )
si ballerà di nuovo :

27.01.09 14:04 - Ue: Almunia, sistema finanziario globale in fase critica
BRUXELLES (MF-DJ)--
Il sistema finanziario globale e' in una fase :help:molto critica.

Lo ha dichiarato Joaquin Almunia, Commissario europeo per gli Affari economici e monetari,
durante una conferenza sui servizi finanziari a Bruxelles, aggiungendo che la creazione di una "bad bank" che rimuova gli asset tossici dai bilanci degli istituti bancari europei "non e' priva di problemi".

Quest'ipotesi, secondo Almunia, dovra' essere considerata soltanto dopo :devil:che i policymaker europei avranno trovato un accordo sul modo migliore per valutare e rimuovere i "bad asset".
 

Broker88

Senior Member
Le strutturate sono senior a meno che nella Offering Circular non siano qualificate come subordinate. Parlo su base empirica: nella stragrande maggioranza dei casi sono senior. Peraltro l'EuroTlx dà indicazione dlla natura subordinata di un'emissione, quando tale caratteristica si presenta.

Quella che indichi, valutando dalla scheda informativa dell'EuroTlx, dovrebbe proprio essere senior. Si può fare la prova del nove reperendo l'Offering Circular e vedendo lì... hai per caso cercato su Borsa Italiana ? Lo lascio fare a te, se poi hai difficoltà ... ;)

Ok, in realtà avevo visto solo sul TLX ma ho avuto problemi con il PDF che mi usciva danneggiato :-?
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
Io ho tempi biblici nelle mie cose... :lol: ;)

ed intanto mi preparo ad aggiornare:

http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/02/Where-Are-They-Now

sua onestà, Fuld, ce la sta mettendo tutta per inguaiarsi ancor adi più... :D

Ex-Lehman chief sold Florida mansion to his wife for $10

un altro gentleman, suggeriva alla moglie di spazzare via anche l'argenteria, finchè poteva... :lol:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Florida fund manager Arthur Nadel, whose family reported him missing in early January, was arrested on Tuesday on criminal charges of securities fraud, U.S. officials said.
New York FBI spokeswoman Monica McLean said Nadel -- head of Scoop Management, overseeing six hedge funds he had valued at more than $300 million -- would make an initial appearance in a federal court in Florida.
"Arthur Nadel surrendered in the company of two lawyers to FBI agents in Tampa," McLean said.
In a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, Nadel was charged with securities fraud and wire fraud related to his funds from around 2004 until at least January 14 this year.
The court document contains excerpts of a handwritten letter from Nadel, 76, to his wife. It says the letter was found by Scoop employees in an office shredding machine.
"The avenues to money for you will likely be blocked soon," the letter quoted in an affidavit by FBI agent Kevin Riordan said. "You must use the trust (yours) to your benefit as much and as soon as possible."
Nadel, head of Sarasota, Florida-based Scoop Management, was reported missing by his family a week ago. He left behind a suicide note that expressed guilt for losing clients' money and said someone might try to kill him.
The Nadel case broke about a month after the arrest and charge of New York investment manager Bernard Madoff, who authorities said confessed to running "a giant Ponzi scheme" over many years. Prosecutors have called the Ponzi scheme, one in which early investors are paid with money from new clients, the biggest in history.
Authorities have announced a rash of Ponzi-type schemes across the United States following the sharp decline in the fortunes of the financial industry.
 

paologorgo

Chapter 11
Bank bailout could cost $4 trillion

Banks don't have enough capital to fix their problems, which means the Obama administration may need a lot more money to clean up the financial mess.


NEW YORK (Fortune) -- The cost of the bank bailout is likely to be much higher than $700 billion.
While the Obama administration hasn't asked Congress for more money yet, some experts warn that government spending on support for struggling financial services companies will ultimately reach into the trillions of dollars.
The first half of the controversial $700 billion program to help banks has already been spent -- mostly on buying up preferred shares of troubled banks.
Part of the remaining $350 billion may be used to purchase troubled assets from bank balance sheets and place them in what Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. chief Sheila Bair has dubbed an "aggregator bank."
And while taxpayers will surely recover some of that sum eventually, more money is likely to be needed in order for the bank rescue to work.
"The amount of working capital you'd expect the government to take into this would be around $3 trillion to $4 trillion," said Simon Johnson, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and author of its Baseline Scenario financial crisis blog.
Johnson, who until last year was the chief economist at the International Monetary Fund, said that banks will need more rounds of capital from the government because their cushion against losses is too thin. He also said that there is a need to get rid of some of the toxic assets weighing on financial institutions before they can recover.
With that in mind, he thinks that the net cost to U.S. taxpayers for a broadened bailout would be about $1 trillion to $2 trillion, or between 5% and 10% of U.S. gross domestic product. He said this figure is "in line with the experience" of other nations that have tried massive banking system restructuring.
Johnson isn't the first to estimate that the final cost of a bank bailout will be well north of $1 trillion. FBR Capital analyst Paul Miller said in November that just the top eight U.S. financial institutions alone needed at least $1 trillion in new common equity.
Plunging stocks increase the sense of urgency
But calls for a comprehensive response from the government have increased in recent weeks following the free fall of bank stocks.
The KBW Bank index has dropped 35% in January after a 50% plunge in 2008, as investors worry that the government may be forced to nationalize some banks -- and wipe out shareholders in the process. Shares of Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) and Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) have been particularly hard hit.
"The big banks are a hope trade right now," Johnson said.
Though the Obama administration hasn't said it will need more money beyond the second $350 billion installment of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, officials have not ruled out the possibility of asking Congress for further funds.
Vice President Joe Biden said on CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday that the first task for the likely new Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, will be to assess whether the remaining $350 billion in funds available under TARP will be enough to stop the bleeding.
Geithner said last week that he didn't yet see the need for more money, but stressed that the Treasury may have to "act flexibly" if the problems in the economy and the financial sector deepen.
While officials will have to spend huge sums upfront to show the market that they won't let important institutions fail, Johnson said taxpayers won't have to end up on the hook for the entire amount of money that's being injected into banks.
Johnson said the government could get warrants in banks receiving assistance that would convert to common shares once the government sells them. He also said the government could hire private equity managers to oversee the assets the government takes on -- and sell them when the time is right.
These arrangements, he said, should allow the Treasury to extract some gains for taxpayers when the economic free fall ends and the banking system starts to recover.
Some observers believe asset values are so depressed right now that as long as the government has a well designed plan that restores investor confidence, taxpayers should profit from the financial bailout
"I think we have seen prices fall to a point where the government could very easily make money, though I'd be very happy if we end up breaking even," says Gary Hager, president of Integrated Wealth Management in Edison , N.J.
What could go wrong
If the history of previous banking system rescues is any guide though, there's also a good chance that removing toxic assets from bank balance sheets could leave taxpayers with a significant tab.
When Congress created the Resolution Trust Corp. in 1989 to clean up the mess left by the collapse of the savings and loan industry, legislators gave the RTC $50 billion to close or resolve troubled institutions.
But the RTC wound up needing three additional infusions of taxpayer funds over six years, as regulators confronted an industry whose health was much worse than feared.
In the end, taxpayers took a $124 billion loss on the RTC's operations, according to a 2000 study published by FDIC researchers Timothy Curry and Lynn Shibut.
The RTC resolved 747 institutions, with total assets of $394 billion, according to the study. That means taxpayers lost 31 cents on each dollar of assets handled by the RTC -- an institution that, because it was simply disposing of the property of failed institutions, didn't have to pay for assets it later sold.
In contrast, the widely discussed aggregator bank would be paying institutions that participate for their assets.
Details of how the aggregator bank would decide how much to pay for toxic assets have yet to be determined. But whatever method the aggregator bank uses, it could mean significantly higher startup costs than the RTC had.
So expect to see the Obama administration coming back to Congress for more money...soon.
 

lorenzo63

Age quod Agis
Non so se è il 3ad giusto..

.. Invito i MOD, se OT, a spostarlo dove + giusto.

A seguire elenco esaustivo di chi è esposto nel c.....o MADOFF con le $quantità$:(

The following entities have announced exposure to Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, the New York-based business that allegedly lost $50 billion in a giant pyramid scheme.
Entity: Banco Santander SA (SAN.MC)Exposure: Clients have EUR2.33 billion exposure; bank has EUR17 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 27Notes: Santander is offer its private banking clients EUR1.38 billion incompensation for Madoff-related losses. The offer doesn't apply toinstitutional investors. Latin American clients were approached with anoffer to return their original investments via preferred stock with a 2%interest rate, in return for a promise not to sue. Santander customers MarOctava Limitada and Marcelo Guillermo Testa filed a class-action lawsuit ina U.S. court, lawyers said Jan. 27. Spain's anti-corruption prosecutor isinvestigating the bank's relationship with Fairfield Greenwich and Madoff,as well as the bank's Swiss-based Optimal Investment Services SA. Thelosses were first disclosed Dec. 14. EUR2.01 billion belongs toinstitutional investors and international private banking clients; EUR320million belongs to private banking customers in Spain. The bank'sPortuguese unit reported a EUR16 million impact.Entity: Nomura Holdings Inc. (8604.TO)Exposure: Y32.2 billionDate of disclosure: Jan. 27Notes: Nomura originally said it had Y27.5 billion in exposure on Dec. 14.The firm booked the loss from fixed-income investments related to Madoff.Entity: Ramaz SchoolExposure: $6 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 27Notes: n/aEntity: SAR AcademyExposure: One-third of the school's $3.7 million endowmentDate of disclosure: Jan. 27Notes:Entity: Picower FoundationExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Jan. 26Notes: The Florida-based foundation closed its doors because its endowmentwas managed by Madoff.Entity: Zsa Zsa GaborExposure: As much as $10 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 26Notes: A lawyer for Gabor said she may have lost as much as $10 million.Forensics accountants looking into the missing money believe they wereinvested with Madoff through a third-party money manager. The loss wasnoticed about a week ago.Entity: Hadleigh Holdings LLCExposure: $1 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 23Notes: Hadleigh have $1 million to Madoff on Dec. 8. The U.S. BankruptcyCourt ordered that Irving Picard reserve funds for Hadleigh, keeping themoney out of the bankruptcy estate he will distribute to investors untiltheir suits are litigated.Entity: Martin RosenmanExposure: $10 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 23Notes: Rosenman, managing member of Rosenman Family LLC, wired $10 millionto Madoff via a JPMorgan Chase Bank account on Dec. 5, six days beforeMadoff's arrest. The funds weren't supposed to be touched until Jan. 1,according to a suit filed in U.S. Bankruptcy Court, but Rosenman received astatement Dec. 5 explaining the money was used to sell short $10 million inU.S. Treasuries. There is no record that the Treasury short ever occurred.The U.S. Bankruptcy Court ordered that Irving Picard reserve funds forRosenman Family LLC.Entity: Argus Group Holdings Ltd.Exposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Jan. 22Notes: Argus sent an email to life-insurance policyholders Jan. 16 sayingthe value of their investments in Tremont Group Holdings' Rye InvestmentFunds had been written down to zero. Argus, Tremont and the Rye Funds werenamed in a lawsuit filed on behalf of investors who purchased or heldvariable universal life insurance policies beginning in January 2003. Argusoffered Tremont-managed funds as an investment option for its policies.Entity: Auriga International Advisors Ltd.Exposure: At least CHF400 million (348.4 million)Date of disclosure: Jan. 22Notes: The hedge fund was wholly invested in Fairfield Sentry. Majorityshareholder Jacques Rauber told Swiss weekly SonntagzZeitung that anotherfund, Auriga Alternative Strategies, was affected "to a much lesserextent."Entity: Repex Ventures SAExposure: at least $700,000Date of disclosure: Jan. 16Notes: Repex filed a lawsuit against Sonja Kohn, Bank Medici's chairwoman,Madoff and others, saying Kohn didn't disclose that the money was beingfunneled to Madoff and that Kohn didn't do enough due diligence on behalfof her clients.Entity: Oddo et CieExposure: EUR30 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 15Notes: Oddo had invested the money in Lux Alpha fund, for which UBSLuxembourg was custodian. Lux Alpha invested the money in Madoff's funds.Luxembourg authorities ordered UBS Luxembourg to compensate Oddo et Cie forthe funds within 24 hours, as well as EUR10,000 for Oddo's legal fees.Entity: Man Group PLC (EMG.LN)Exposure: $360 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 14Notes: Invested in funds directly and indirectly sub-advised by MadoffSecurities and for which Madoff acts as broker-dealer. Madoff investmentrepresents 1.5% of the company's RMF fund-of-funds business's funds undermanagement and 0.5% of funds under management for Man Group itself,according to a Dec. 15 disclosure. Man Group is considering taking legalaction to recover some of its investments.Entity: UniCredit SpA (UCG.MI)Exposure: EUR75 million direct; EUR805 million indirect via unitDate of disclosure: Jan. 13Notes: Dublin-based Pioneer Alternative Investments indirectlyexposed to Madoff via feeders; Italian clients have zero exposure. PioneerGroup had EUR805 million ($1.08 billion) in indirect investments insegregated accounts managed by Madoff, according to a prospectus forUniCredit's capital-strengthening plan. The exposure is mainly linked toPrimeo Funds investments.Entity: Marc RichExposure: "insignificant" exposure, held indirectlyDate of disclosure: Jan. 9Notes: Both the Marc Rich Group and fugitive financier Marc Rich haveexposure. A spokeswoman said the exposure "has no material impact on theoverall financial situation of the group."Entity: Carl ShapiroExposure: $400 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 7Notes: Shapiro gave Madoff $250 million around Dec. 1, though it is unclearwhether the money was in the form of a loan or an investment. The $400million figure, disclosed Dec. 16, includes the Dec. 1 transaction.Shapiro's charitable foundation, the Carl & Ruth Shapiro Family Foundation,lost an estimated $100 million or more.Entity: New York UniversityExposure: $24 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 7Notes: NYU filed a lawsuit Dec. 24 claiming J. Ezra Merkin turned over hisinvestment responsibilities to Madoff's funds and lost $24 million of theschool's money. The suit names as defendants Merkin's Ariel Fund Ltd.; thefund's investment manager, Gabriel Capital Corp.; and Fortis Bank. An NYUlawyer said the school invested $94 million in Ariel, a partnership betweenMerkin and Fortis, in the mid-1990s. A lawyer for Merkin said the schoolonly invested $30 million and made $60 million. Ariel plans to liquidatedue to Madoff-related losses, but a temporary restraining order prohibitsassets from being transferred out of the fund.Entity: Bard CollegeExposure: $3 millionDate of disclosure: Jan. 6The school said J. Ezra Merkin's Ariel Fund invested the money with Madoffwithout its knowledge. The losses on the investment include profits.Entity: Bank Medici AGExposure: $2.1 billionDate of disclosure: Jan. 2Notes: Bank Medici first reported its exposure Dec. 19. The bank is 25%owned by Unicredit SpA (UCG.MI) and 75% owned by chairwoman Sonja Kohn.Hedge funds run by the bank had almost all their money invested withMadoff. Investor redemptions at the Herald funds have been suspended. Thebank has also stopped calculating net asset values. Austria's governmentnamed Gerhard Altenberger to manage the bank, but won't supply it withfunds.Entity: Henry KaufmanExposure: "several million dollars"Date of disclosure: Dec. 31Notes: The former Salomon Brothers chief economist had the money in abrokerage account with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities for morethan five years. Kaufman said the amount was "no more than a couple percentof my entire net worth," estimated to be several hundred million dollars,and "immaterial to my financial well-being."Entity: Genium AdvisorsExposure: nearly 6.7% of a EUR3 million ($4.2 million) fund invested inFairfield SentryDate of disclosure: Dec. 30Notes: Roland Priborsky, Genium's chief, said he was comfortable with theFairfield Sentry investment in part because it was included in a list offunds on which Union Bancaire Privee said it had done due diligence.Entity: Kevin Bacon and Kyra SedgwickExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 30Notes: The actors' exposure was confirmed by Bacon's spokesman, AllenEichhorn.Entity: Union Bancaire PriveeExposure: $700 million via funds of funds and client portfoliosDate of disclosure: Dec. 30Notes: Half of UBP's 22 funds of funds put at least some of their moneyinto Madoff-related investment vehicles, including one run by J. EzraMerkin. The principal fund, Dinvest Total Return, had about 3% of its morethan $1 billion of assets in Madoff-related funds. One fund of funds had asmuch as 6.9% of assets in Madoff-related funds. UBP said total potentialMadoff-related investments amount to less than 1% of assets undermanagement. UBP also provided services such as investment advice and loansto a division of Fairfield Greenwich Group. The bank managed $124.5 billionas of June. The bank had most recently met with Madoff Nov. 25 as part ofan ongoing vetting process.Entity: Rothschild & CieExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 29Notes: The investment bank has frozen its Elite fund, which had investednearly 23% of its assets in Access International Advisors' Luxalpha fund.Entity: Thierry Magon de La VillehuchetExposure: $50 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 29Notes: De La Villehuchet put "the bulk of his wealth" with Madoff,according to his brother. The French aristocrat was found dead of anapparent suicide Dec. 24.Entity: Access International AdvisorsExposure: $1.5 billionDate of disclosure: Dec. 24Notes: The investment-advisory firm's co-founder, Thierry Magon de LaVillehuchet, was found dead Dec. 24 in an apparent suicide. AccessInternational Advisors oversaw Luxalpha Sicav, a fund with Madoff-runassets. Investors included Rothschild & Cie investment bank and LilianeBettencourt.Entity: Elie Wiesel Foundation For HumanityExposure: $15.2 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 24Notes: The foundation, established to combat anti-Semitism, said"substantially all" of its assets were invested with Madoff.Entity: Tremont Group Holdings Inc.Exposure: $3.3 billionDate of disclosure: Dec. 23Notes: Tremont is owned by Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co. Tremontsaid in a letter to investors that it believes it "exercised appropriatedue diligence in connection with the Madoff investments." The loss is morethan half of all assets overseen by Tremont. Tremont and Mass Mutual werenamed in a lawsuit Dec. 23.Entity: Yad SarahExposure: $1.5 million invested with J. Ezra MerkinDate of disclosure: Dec. 23Notes: The Israeli nonprofit, with a $21 million budget in 2008, likelywon't expand operations or develop any new services or projects in 2009.Entity: Caisse d'EpargneExposure: Under EUR8 million indirect exposure, excluding investment bankNatixis (12068.FR)Date of disclosure: Dec. 22Notes: Caisse d'Epargne said EUR1 million was for Caisse Nationale desCaisses d'Epargne, the central hub, and "under EUR7 million" was from itsregional level. Natixis reported exposure around EUR450 million on Dec. 15.Entity: UBS AG (UBS)Exposure: Funds-of-funds for clients had Madoff exposure; credit exposure"very insignificant," though UBS did lend to MadoffDate of disclosure: Dec. 22Notes: UBS declined to comment on press reports that the funds contain $1.4billion in client assets.Entity: J. Gurwin Foundation Inc.Exposure: $28 million charity invested heavily in Madoff fundsDate of disclosure: Dec. 20Notes: Gurwin said, "We got a body blow. We did not get killed." He hasdonated to the United Jewish Appeal-Federation of New York, the UnitedStates Holocaust Memorial Museum, the American Society for Technion-IsraelInstitute of Technology and the Gurwin Jewish Nursing & RehabilitationCenter.Entity: EFG International AG (EFGN.EB)Exposure: "limited" client exposureDate of disclosure: Dec. 19Notes: EFG clients have $130 million invested in Madoff through third-partyfunds sold by EFG. In addition, 0.3% of the bank's total invested assets,held in custody, are invested in Madoff.Entity: Fire and Police Pension Association Of ColoradoExposure: Had $60 million invested with Fairfield Greenwich until sixmonths agoDate of disclosure: Dec. 19Notes: The pension fund has $2.5 billion under management.Entity: International Olympic CommitteeExposure: $4.8 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 19Notes: The IOC's exposure represents about 1% of its total investmentportfolio. Organizing committee confirmed they will be able to meet theirobligations.Entity: Support Organization for the Madison Cultural Arts DistrictExposure: $18 million invested with Fairfield Greenwich until SeptemberDate of disclosure: Dec. 19Notes: A spokesman for the Overture Center in Madison, Wis., built withSOMCAD funds, said, "Speculation that SOMCAD could be on the hook is notoutlandish."Entity: Fairfield Greenwich GroupExposure: About $7.5 billion through Fairfield Sentry fundDate of disclosure: Dec. 18Notes: Fairfield Greenwich said in a letter posted on its Web site that itis still assessing the extent of potential losses. It initially announcedits exposure on Dec. 15. $7.5 billion is slightly more than half of totalassets. Investors sued the Fairfield Sentry Fund Dec. 18.Entity: St. Galler Kantonalbank's (SGKN.EB) private Hyposwiss bankExposure: $50 million, roughly 0.1% of its overall assets, was invested inMadoff products through managed accounts. Another $100 million is exposedthrough clients invested in Madoff funds.Date of disclosure: Dec. 18Notes: St. Galler Kantonalbank first announced the exposure on Dec. 15 andsaid its financial situation and liquidity aren't hurt by Hyposwiss'exposure. Hyposwiss said Dec. 18 that 25% of of 2,000 clients at its Genevabranch had products sold by Madoff in their portfolios.Entity: Yeshiva UniversityExposure: $110 million invested with Ascot Partners LP.Date of disclosure: Dec. 18Notes: Yeshiva had no direct investment but 8% of its endowment wasinvested for 15 years with Ascot Partners LP, which had "substantially allits assets invested with Madoff," a letter sent by the university said.Madoff was also on the school's board but has resigned.Entity: Banco Espirito Santa SA (BES.LB)Exposure: EUR15 million indirect exposureDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: The amount represents about 0.1% of assets under management.Entity: Credit Industrial et Commercial SA (12005.FR)Exposure: EUR90 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: The bank has no direct exposure to Madoff but could be affectedthrough an intermediary.Entity: Genevalor, Benbassat & Cie.Exposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: Genevalor distributes the Thema fund family. An investor documentfor one Thema fund shows a return-on-investment chart that correspondsclosely to Madoff's performance. A summary of the fund's investmentstrategy describes a process consistent with Madoff's activity. Genevalorsaid in a statement on its Web site that it "has been reviewing thepotential damages caused to its clients" by the alleged Madoff fraud. Astatement from the Thema fund said it had assets with Madoff that were nowfrozen.Entity: Great Eastern Holding Ltd. (G07.SG)Exposure: S$64 million through some Fairfield Greenwich fundsDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: Great Eastern said S$7.7 million of its exposure is invested fromshareholder funds and S$56.3 million is from its Life Fund. The totalrepresents 0.14% of the group's total assets as of Sept. 30. Great Easternis 87% owned by Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp. (O39.SG). Great Eastern'sLion Global Investors unit separately invested S$350,000 in one Madoff-related fund.Entity: M&B Capital AdvisersExposure: Private clients have more than EUR37 million in exposureDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: The firm is run by the son and son-in-law of the chairman of BancoSantander SA (STD), which disclosed nearly EUR2.33 billion in Madoffexposure. Through M&B, private and institutional investors bought morethan EUR150 million in Madoff's funds.Entity: Phoenix Holdings Ltd. (PHOE1.TV)Exposure: Up to ILS48 million ($12.6 million)Date of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: Phoenix's insurance unit invested $15 million over the last threeyears in funds managed by Thema, which made investments through Madoff. InNovember, the company requested to redeem $10 million. The payment was dueDec. 12 but Phoenix hasn't received it.Entity: Royal Dutch Shell (RDSB.LN) pension fundExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 17Notes: The pension fund fund has an indirect investment that may beaffected. The fund originally invested $45 million. The alleged fraud won'taffect the financial position and funding status of the fund.Entity: Stanley ChaisExposure: n/aDate of disclosure Dec. 17Notes: The money manager managed investments he called "the arbitragepartnerships," according to investors and firm correspondence. Chais'sfoundation, which focused on Jewish causes and gave about $12 millionannually to Israeli projects (including Bina and Melitz), will be closing.A lawsuit was filed on behalf of individuals who invested through Chais orhis Brighton Co.Entity: Aioi Insurance Co. (8761.TO)Exposure: Y100 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Aioi said it didn't make a direct investment in the Madoff fund.Entity: Ascot Partners LLCExposure: Substantially all of $1.8 billion in assets (figure as of Sept.30) were invested with MadoffDate of disclosure: Dec. 11Notes: A lawsuit was filed against Ascot, J. Ezra Merkin and auditor BDOSeidman Dec. 16.Entity: Baloise Holding AGExposure: around $13 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: n/aEntity: Credicorp Ltd. (BAP)Exposure: Up to $4.5 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Credicorp's Atlantic Security Bank unit has $1 million in directexposure and up to $3.5 million in potential contingencies "related totransactions secured by these investments."Entity: Fukoku Mutual Life Co.Exposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: The company said it holds similar investments trusts to those heldby Sumitomo Life Insurance Co. but declined to specify the balance.Sumitomo disclosed that it has about Y2 billion exposed via trusts.Entity: Gift of Life Bone Marrow FoundationExposure: About $1.8 million in pledges have been affected by Madoff issueDate of disclosure; Dec. 16Notes: Gift of Life doesn't have any money invested with Madoff but aboutone-third of funds it spent on donor recruitment came from the MadoffFamily Foundation. The organization is trying to raise funds from othersources.Entity: Helvetia Holding AG (HELN.EB)Exposure: Indirect exposure "limited"Date of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: No direct exposureEntity: ING NV (ING)Exposure: "No direct exposure"Date of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: "No significant indirect exposure" through clients. ING said none ofthe funds its manages have invested money in Madoff's enterprise.Entity: JEHT FoundationExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: The foundation stopped all grant-making and plans to shut down atthe end of January. Its major donors had essentially all their moneyinvested with the Madoff firm. Grant recipients had included Human RightsFirst and the Michigan Department of Corrections, Make Voting Work and theInnocence Project.Entity: Massachusetts Mutual Life InsuranceExposure: Less than $10 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: "Any impact immaterial to financial condition."Entity: Meiji Yasuda Life Insurance Co.Exposure: Y100 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Meiji Yasuda didn't invest directly in the Madoff fund.Entity: Mitsui Sumitomo Insurance Co. (8725.TO)Exposure: Y800 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Mitsui Sumitomo didn't invest directly in the Madoff fund.Entity: New York Law SchoolExposure: $3 million through Ascot PartnersDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: The school invested the money through its endowment entity. Theschool filed an investor lawsuit against J. Ezra Merkin, Ascot Partners andBDO Seidman.Entity: Nipponkoa Insurance Co. (8754.TO)Exposure: n/aDate of disclosure: The company said it holds similar investments trusts tothose held by Sumitomo Life Insurance Co. but declined to specify thebalance. Sumitomo disclosed that it has about Y2 billion exposed viatrusts.Entity: North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health SystemExposure: $5.7 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Exposure represents less than 1% of the health system's investmentportfolio. A donor agreed to reimburse the system for any losses.Entity: Robert I. Lappin Charitable Foundation; Robert I. Lappin 1992Supporting FoundationExposure: n/aDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Programs run by the foundations have been discontinued, according toa statement on the organizations' Web site. Money used to fund the programswas invested with the Madoff firm.Entity: Sumitomo Life Insurance Co.Exposure: About Y2 billionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Sumitomo Life didn't invest directly in the Madoff fund but part ofits investment trust holdings were linked to it.Entity: Swiss Life Holding AG (SLHN.VX)Exposure: CHF90 million ($78.9 million)Date of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Swiss Life said it is exposed indirectly through fund of funds. Theloss is less than 0.1% of Swiss Life's assets under management.Entity: Swiss Reinsurance Co. (RUKN.VX)Exposure: indirect exposure less than $3 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Exposure is through hedge fund investments; no direct exposure.Entity: Taiyo Life Insurance Co. (6252.TO)Exposure: Y20 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: Taiyo Life didn't invest directly in the Madoff fund.Entity: UBI Banca SpA (UBI.MI)Exposure: EUR60.4 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 16Notes: UBI Pramerica and Capitalgest Alternative Investments, the assets-under-management units, have no exposure. The bank estimates EUR400,000 incustomer exposure in assets under custody. The bank said EUR450,000 inexposure is registered in customers' discretionary portfolios at UBI BancaInternational SA Luxembourg.Entity: Aozora Bank Ltd. (8304.TO)Exposure: Estimated Y12.4 billion ($137 million)Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Aozora entrusted Y12.4 billion to investment funds, which investedwith Madoff. Cerberus Capital Management LP owns a majority stake inAozora. Aozora doesn't expect the loss's impact on its financial conditionto be material.Entity: AXA SA (AXA)Exposure: Less than EUR100 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentina SA (BBV)Exposure: EUR300 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: BBV reiterated it doesn't have direct exposure to Madoff, butwould face losses of EUR300 million if Madoff funds were found not toexist.Entity: Banco Espanol de Credito SA (BTO.MC)Exposure: EUR2 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Banesto said the EUR2 million is included in the EUR2.33 billionalready disclosed by its parent company, Banco Santander SA. Of theEUR2 million, EUR400,000 corresponds to hedge fund customers and EUR1.6million corresponds to structured deposit customers.Entity: Banque Benedict HentschExposure: CHF56 million ($48.8 million)Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Banque Benedict Hentsch bought back its capital from FairfieldGreenwich after disclosing its exposure. The deal unwinds a three-monthpartnership.Entity: Barclays PLC (BCS)Exposure: "minimal"Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Barclay's exposure is "fully collateralized."Entity: Bramdean AlternativesExposure: 9.5% of portfolio invested in Madoff fundsDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Investments were in Madoff's Defender and Rye Select Broad Market XLPortfolio.Entity: Clal Insurance Enterprises Holdings Ltd. (CLIS.TV)Exposure: ILS12 million, or $3.1 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: CNP Assurances (12022.FR)Exposure: No direct exposure; indirect exposure of EUR3 million via a fundof fundsDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Credit Agricole S.A. (4507.FR)Exposure: Less than EUR10 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Credit Suisse (CS)Exposure: "No material direct exposure"Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Credit Suisse is reviewing if any client funds affected.Entity: Dexia S.A. (DEXB.BT)Exposure: No direct investments; private banking clients have EUR78 millionexposure to funds primarily invested in Madoff funds. Dexia has grossEUR164 million indirect exposure through partially collateralized lendingoperations to funds exposed to Madoff funds.Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: If the value of the assets managed by Madoff Investment Securitieswere nil, the above mentioned lending operations could trigger an after taxloss of about EUR85 million for Dexia.Entity: EIM SAExposure: $230 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Fortis (NL) NV (30086.AE)Exposure: Up to EUR1 billionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Groupama S.A.Exposure: Less than EUR10 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Harel Insurance Investments & Financial Services Ltd. (HARL.TV)Exposure: ILS55 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Jewish Community Foundation of Los AngelesExposure: $18 million via Common Investment PoolDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Investment represents less than 5% of foundation's assets.Entity: KBC group NV (KBC.BT)Exposure: No direct exposure; some indirect exposure through collateralizedloans, but the exposure is very limited and immaterial to KBC's earnings.Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: KBC has also made some loan advances to institutional customers whohave invested in funds managed by Madoff Investment Securities, but thisshouldn't have any material impact either, the company said.Entity: Mediobanca SpA (MB.MI)Exposure: $671,000 via its Compagnie Monegasque de Banque unitDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Natixis (12068.FR)Exposure: Estimated indirect net maximum EUR450 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Natixis says it didn't make direct investment in Madoff-managedfunds; some investments made on behalf of customers could have ended upbeing managed by Madoff.Entity: Neue Privat BankExposure: Around $5 million invested in a certificate based on a hedgefund with exposure to Madoff.Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: Nordea Bank AB (NDA.SK)Exposure: EUR48 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Exposure is through Fairfield Greenwich's Fairfield Sentry; amountrepresents 0.2% of assets under management.Entity: RAB Capital PLC (RAB.LN)Exposure: $10 million, according to a person familiar with the situationDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: The source said RAB's exposure represents less than 0.5% of assetsunder management.Entity: Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC (RBS)Exposure: GBP400 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: Exposure to Madoff is through trading, collateralized lending.Entity: Societe Generale SA (13110.FR)Exposure: Less than EUR10 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: UBS AG (UBS)Exposure: "No material exposure"Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: "Limited and insignificant counterparty exposure;" "Global assetmanagement doesn't have material exposure."Entity: Wunderkinder FoundationExposure: Steven Spielberg confirmed the foundation sustained losses.Date of disclosure: Dec. 15Notes: n/aEntity: BNP Paribas (BNPQY)Exposure: EUR350 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 14Notes: BNP Paribas said it has no investment of its own in Madoff-managedhedge funds but it does "have risk exposure to these funds through itstrading business and collateralized lending to funds of hedge funds."Entity: HSBC Holdings PLC (HBC)Exposure: Potentially about $1 billionDate of disclosure: Dec. 14Notes: HSBC provided financing to a small number of institutional clientswho invested about $500 million with Madoff; some clients in its globalcustody business have invested with Madoff, but the company doesn't believethese arrangements should be a source of exposure to the group.Entity: Reichmuth & Co.Exposure: Clients have exposure of CHF385 million ($327 million)Date of disclosure: Dec. 14Notes: Reichmuth Matterhorn, a fund that invests in other edge funds, faceda potential loss of about 8.6%, representing about 3.5% of Reichmuth &Co.'s CHF11 billion under management.Entity: Banco Popolare (BP.MI)Exposure: Up to EUR8 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 13Notes: Indirect exposure; maximum lost on funds distributed toinstitutional, private clients EUR60 million.Entity: Maxam Capital Management LLCExposure: $280 millionDate of disclosure: Dec. 12
 

Broker88

Senior Member
paologorgo ha scritto:
Bank bailout could cost $4 trillion

Banks don't have enough capital to fix their problems, which means the Obama administration may need a lot more money to clean up the financial mess.

4 trillion :eek::eek::eek:

Vabbè che se li stampano da soli stile falsari, però.. :specchio::specchio::specchio::titanic::titanic:



Cmq per quanto grande sia i problemi restano:
1) Basterà? Ovvero...il TARP sembrava "la soluzione" invece è stato solo un po di ossigeno;
2) A che prezzo? Al prezzo di bilancio di ogni singola banca? Ad un prezzo inferiore? (k.sino per ulteriori svalutazioni). Ad un prezzo superiore? (evvai, gli facciamo fare plusvalenze in questo primo trimestre)
3) Quali sono gli asset? Ogni banca dirà i suoi oppure sarà il Governo ad elencare gli strumenti tossici (e quindi...se ce ne sono altri che non rientrano tra quelli spazzatura, le banche cosa se ne fanno...)


Ed alla fine del giro: ma poi sti titoli ciofeka se li prende la bad bank o chi per lei e ci va in perdita certa.
Sta perdita ciuccerà risorse pubbliche per anni ed anni...
E soprattutto...ma poi questi soldi il Governo lo sa che un giorno dovrà restituirli?



Io resto fiducioso ma .. :titanic:
 

yellow

Forumer attivo
La soluzione della bad bank, ad oggi, oltre apparire la soluzione migliore è divenuta indispensabile,
pena un credit crunch " per tutti " conclamato, che potrebbe :eek:durare anni, e durante il quale, gran parte delle aziende ( non le Banche ) :titanic:chiuderebbero per l'impossibilità di ricevere finanziamenti/cash ( che servono ad es. anche per l'ordinario funzionamento quotidiano ),
poichè i ratios attuali delle grandi Banche impelagate con gli assets tossic
sono franati e quindi niente cash disponibile.

La vera disputa/battaglia avverrà sulla valorizzazione/quantificazione ( prezzo ) di tali assets tossic ( si va da un 10% ad un 25% circa del valore scritto/apposto su tali strumenti ).

Occorre altresì precisare,
che questi assets tossici non è vero che valgono :no:0, certo in questo momento :D non riescono a far prezzo e perciò....

Ma una volta passati a questa " bad bank ", in pratica al Gov. USA/Fed,
con il trascorrere degli anni e con calma e in attesa di una futura ripresa:D:D..........

Quindi non sono soldi buttati nel ce.so.

Quanto all'entità/capienza della cifra ipotizzata 4.000 MLD USD,
è vero che è enorme, ma è anche vero che è in pratica un'anticipazione di cassa ( max 25% del valore facciale ) del Governo degli Stati Uniti alle Banche, che in tal modo riceveranno ingenti somme e potranno tornare
a fare le Banche " serie " e liberare la liquidità alle aziende ed ai consumatori.

Avendo discreta memoria, ricordo che il CEO di Citigroup, nel 2008 stimò/ipotizzò:D
assets tossic made in USA per " almeno " 5.000 MLD USD ",
e nessuno fece caso a questo passaggio:(

A conclusione di ciò, MAGARI e nel più breve tempo possibile creassero la " bad bank " ( rumors indicano :up:10 giorni max, indi per cui.... ),
questa sarebbe :Vla vera leva per una ripresa " concreta "
 

g10rgio_fr

Nuovo forumer
Ma ammesso che in qualche modo la situazioni si "normalizzi" non è che per caso nel frattempo sia il caso di mettere una briglia alla creatività (o cretinità) di questi filibustieri..... cioè volevo dire banchieri. Altrimenti il gioco ricomincerebbe e non ci vorrebbero altri 80 anni per ritrovarci da capo.
 

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