Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

[drbs315]

e' il motivo per cui prediligo a parita' di prezzo sns a bp, stato forte con almeno una banca solidissima che in caso di necessita' ....

Pure io l'ho pensato mesi fa... quando ho deciso di comprare Friesland irs switchando da altre irs. Il boccone era/è piccolo e Rabobk, alla peggio, se lo potrebbe pappare, o gli Orange dare una mano.
Ma qui comincia ad esserci troppa richiesta

 

[drbs315]

possiedo Erste e RZB irs, vedo su i siti tedeschi prezzi molto bassi, ma le due banche non andavano bene? Ora leggo di perdite varie, speriamo che non ci freghino stile irlanda. Saluti a tutti.

Non ancora da saldo, imho, ma non manca molto; + che altro il rischio che si prezza sui titoli è, data tra l'altro la non cumulatività, il salto della/e cedole per n anni in caso di ricapitalizzazione pubblica e, forse, l'avere uno stato nanerottolo alle spalle con qualche questuante di troppo.

 

[caligola2005]

scusate per errore ho cancellato delle informazioni che avevo sulle perpetue, mi dite se la cumulativa dexia è la 421 o la 572 grazie

 

[amorgos34]

e' il motivo per cui prediligo a parita' di prezzo sns a bp, stato forte con almeno una banca solidissima che in caso di necessita' ....

Comprata in mattinata sns 155 42 e rotti...

Complimenti per l'avatar !


In pancia ho più lotti BPVN...

 

[Discepolo]

possiedo Erste e RZB irs, vedo su i siti tedeschi prezzi molto bassi, ma le due banche non andavano bene? Ora leggo di perdite varie, speriamo che non ci freghino stile irlanda. Saluti a tutti.

Le possiedo anch'io. Ho visto un certo disallineamento tra i prezzi della XS0188305741 (tv) e la XS0215338152 (tf), guardando ariva.
Anche la rzb oggi prende una bella botta.
Pazienza. Vedremo, a me non dispiacevano per nulla questi titoli, anche per l'esposizione ad est. (Piacere rivelatasi, ad oggi, errato).

 

[davider]

Ciao e benvenuto tra noi.

Sono certo che l'argomento possa interessare
Avevo provato a buttare giù qualcosa in passato, ma poi ho desistito per la difficoltà di prezzare le obb perpetue e le mille variabili coinvolte.

Se hai già qualche idea o una bozza di foglio da discutere ti proporrei di aprire un 3D apposito.

A presto!

Sono talmente inesperto del forum che non saprei nemmeno come fare a mettere un nuovo 3D!

Se sei ancora interessato ti va di farlo partire così poi io seguo da quello che posti?

Io sono proprio alle basi, sto provando e presto se sarò in grado condividerò qualcosa

 

[capt.harlock]

Comprata in mattinata sns 155 42 e rotti...

Complimenti per l'avatar !


In pancia ho più lotti BPVN...

me lo ricordavo

pensa che ho scelto cpt h. come nick perche' oltre al fatto che mi piaceva il cartone animato da ragazzino ho in comune con lui una cosa..io sono molto miope e lui non ci vede da un occhio

 

[gionmorg]

Italy’s downgraded debt a better bet than ‘triple A’ UK



You would be forgiven for thinking that something has suddenly gone awfully wrong in Italy. Last week it was downgraded by both Moody’s and Fitch. Moody’s cut, by a hefty three notches to A plus, was its first downgrade of Italy in 18 years.
The move came just a couple of weeks after the approval of the biggest fiscal adjustment of any leading country in decades. Then again, markets had already taken absence from fundamentals, driving Italian sovereign funding costs above 5 per cent – so the rating agencies, following tradition, adjusted their rating regardless of economic fundamentals.


But sometimes the market gets it all wrong, as is the case now. Consider the following: while Italy funds itself at 5.1 per cent, the UK government funds itself at 1.6 per cent (and is therefore rated triple A).
Italy and the UK are two countries broadly of the same size, wealth and income. Italy is more geared towards manufacturing, with many corporates plugged into the German export machine. The UK is more geared towards services.
Granted, the Italian government’s debt is larger than that of the UK (some 119 per cent of gross domestic product compared with 80 per cent of GDP). But the Italian private sector has stronger balance sheets than the UK private sector, so the two countries’ net international investment positions (net debt of anyone in the country to foreign creditors) are both very comfortable at minus 24 per cent of GDP in Italy, against minus 13 per cent of GDP in the UK.
This means that the Italian sovereign transfers more resources (as interest payments) to foreign creditors than the UK sovereign, while the Italian private sector transfers fewer resources to foreign creditors than the UK private sector. Hence, the Italian government has stronger private wealth for potential future taxation than the UK.
Coming through the crisis, both governments knew that they had to address their fiscal imbalances, and so they did. In the UK, the government passed legislation last year that will tighten the fiscal stance by 2.6 per cent of GDP by the end of parliament in 2014-15, and by another 1.1 per cent of GDP for the first year thereafter, for a total of 3.7 per cent of GDP through to 2016.
This comes on top of fiscal measures implemented by the previous government. All in all, the UK primary balance is set to improve from a worrisome deficit of 5.0 per cent of GDP this year to a modest surplus of 1.3 per cent of GDP in four years.
In Italy, the government passed legislation two weeks ago that will tighten their fiscal stance by 3.5 per cent of GDP by 2014, which comes on top of last year’s tightening of 1.5 per cent of GDP, for a total of a sizeable 5 per cent of GDP. These measures are set to improve the fiscal primary balance from a surplus this year of 0.9 per cent of GDP to a surplus of 5.7 per cent of GDP in four years. Yes, there are implementation risks, but Italy starts with a primary surplus; the UK starts with a sizeable deficit.
In spite of Italy’s better fiscal position and more comprehensive measures, it now pays more than 5.1 per cent (in euros) for its debt while the UK pays just 1.6 per cent in sterling. Could the difference be due to investors’ expectations of future sterling appreciation? Hardly.
Indeed, the argument seems to go the other way. Curiously, investors seem to like the UK precisely because of the country’s ability to weaken its currency (apparently disregarding the loss imposed by such depreciation) because – the argument goes – this will boost future growth and hence tax revenues. The only problem is that this theory has not really worked that well in practice.
Since the end of 2007, UK GDP has contracted cumulatively by 3.4 per cent in spite of the great sterling depreciation as exports failed to recover. Italy’s GDP contracted by 4.4 per cent during the same period. Meanwhile, weaker sterling has lowered imports as the UK became poorer in real terms through higher inflation. In 2007, the average Brit was 30 per cent richer than the average Italian; now they are just 5 per cent richer, according to Eurostat.
Another curious argument relates to central bank underwriting of the sovereign. Yes, the Bank of England may be more comfortable printing money than the European Central Bank but such printing presumably involves some risk of weakening the exchange rate. And make no mistake about it, the ECB is Italy’s central bank and, as already demonstrated, it stands behind the Italian sovereign like any central bank would do in any civilised society. But while the ECB buys Italian sovereign debt, it does so against policy conditionality.
So what would you rather own? The bond on a government being pushed by its central bank to adjust its underlying fundamentals (while backstopping the most extreme market sentiment) or the bond of a government with less ambitious fiscal plans with a central bank behind it which prints without conditionality attached? Oh, and you’ll be paid 3.5 percentage points more for the former...

Un articolo serio e lucido.

 

[Metriko]

Prezzi di iw di ora :

Bpce558 75,5-77

groupama464 37-39

bpvn290 41,5-44

intesa506 68,5-70

nessuna operazione fatta.

 

[zeta59]

In attesa della risalita............


Prezzi con Banco Pop. :


BANCA POP BERGAMO....XS0123998394 ............72,00 75,00
BANCA POP. DI MILANO...XS0372300227............58,00 60,00
BANCA POP. LODI...........XS0223454512............60,50 62,50
BANCO POPOLARE..........XS0304963290.............42,50 44,50
GROUPAMA.................. fr0010533414.............. 27,00 29,00
ING GROEP...................XS0356687219.............90,00 92,00
INTESA SANPAOLO .......XS0371711663.............66,00 68,00
INTESA SANPAOLO........xs0456541506..............69,00 71,00
MPS CAPITAL ..............XS0121342827..............70,00 72,00
GROUPAMA..................FR0010815464................37,00 39,00