Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

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difficile che non gli danno gli aiuti..lo stato olandese non può permettersi di far defaultare una propria banca........
io tengo sulla 523...me ne è rimasto un lotto minimo....il resto venduti stamattina in gain

non credo sia quello il problema, ovvio che gli daranno gli aiuti ma la questione è se valga ancora la pena inseguire le cedole piuttosto che la qualità all'interno del debito subordinato: in tale ottica la 523 potrebbe essere addirittura sopravvalutata
 
non credo sia quello il problema, ovvio che gli daranno gli aiuti ma la questione è se valga ancora la pena inseguire le cedole piuttosto che la qualità all'interno del debito subordinato: in tale ottica la 523 potrebbe essere addirittura sopravvalutata

le T1 di sns le compro solo in ottica trading, non guardo alla cedola.
comunque last della 523 58,39 su ams da un low 57,76
 
non credo sia quello il problema, ovvio che gli daranno gli aiuti ma la questione è se valga ancora la pena inseguire le cedole piuttosto che la qualità all'interno del debito subordinato: in tale ottica la 523 potrebbe essere addirittura sopravvalutata

Basta Aspettare.E non esageriamo col pessimismo,infondo non è una Dexia,ha il problema dell'immobiliare e non riesce ad emettere,ma per il resto fà utili,pochi ma li fà.In Olanda hanno Banche Forti e uno Stato che paga briciole per emettere,una soluzione la trovano.
 
come al solito qualcuno ci guadagnerà alla grande, l'azione sns ha chiuso ad appena -1% :-o per il resto non sono montato sulle 155 perchè ne ho già una marea e cerco qualcosa che sia rapido a salire, se poi scende vorrà dire che venderò e mi butterò su un altro cadavere ambulante più cheap
 

La banca deve essere acquisita da un big. Non possono andare avanti così, con buona pace del mondo cooperativo olandese.

Non se i dati siano corretti, ma ING ha una quota di mercato del 40%, Rabo del 30%, ABN del 20% e SNS del 10%.

Il candidato naturale potrebbe essere Rabo. Ing ha già una quota troppo elevata e ABN è 100% stato olandese. A favore di ABN deporrebbe il fatto che essendo già 100% stato olandese si autorisolverebbe il problema della property.

Fantafinanza...:lol::eeh:

Riprendo questi due posts di Zorba per essere certo che a nessuno sia sfuggito in quale situazione si trova SNS Reaal.
Voglio anche evidenziare un passaggio del report di Moody's:

"SNS Bank's BFSR was downgraded to E+/b3. This reflects Moody's view that SNS Bank's credit risk has increased, absent any extraordinary support. SNS Bank's higher credit-risk profile is driven by (1) the rapid deterioration of the Dutch CRE sector, and the resulting higher-than-previously anticipated levels of impairments on the bank's legacy PF portfolio; and (2) the increasing pressure on SNS Bank's solvency, with a Core Tier 1 ratio of 8.8% at end-September (end-June: 9.6%).
While the bank's capital has previously benefited from the support of the rest of the group -- notably through asset transfers and capital injections -- Moody's believes that future impairments on the bank's PF portfolio may exceed the group's support capacity.
In combination, these factors suggest a rising likelihood that SNS Bank will require additional support from sources outside the group. This is in turn reflected in the downgrade of the standalone credit assessment to E+/b3.
The downgrade of the standalone credit assessment to E+/b3 was limited by Moody's expectation that the plan the group intends to present aims to restore capital and immunise the bank against future impairments on the legacy PF portfolio, rather than to remediate an immediate capital shortfall. Furthermore, Moody's considers the bank's liquidity position to be adequate, which mitigates the risks of a loss of investor confidence in the short-term, in Moody's view."


Naturalmente ognuno può pensare che Moody's abbia visto bene o abbia preso lucciole per lanterne, etc. etc..

Mi sembra giusto sottolineare questi aspetti, visto che alcuni potrebbero non aver ancora preso consapevolezza del dibattito in corso: qui non ci si sta chiedendo se SNS Reaal sia simile al Banco Popolare, al quale, a torto o a ragione, è stata spesso accostata in passato. Ci si sta chiedendo quale futuro abbia un gruppo bancario-assicurativo che, questo sembra appurato, non potrà continuare ad esistere nella sua forma attuale.

Disclaimer: non sto dicendo che sia opportuno (dis)investire nei suoi perpetuals. La mia opinione è che si possano guadagnare o perdere un sacco di soldi con emittenti in buona o in pessima salute. Basta non scambiare gli uni con gli altri.
P.S. se io avessi investito nei perpetuals di SNS Reaal (non importa quale) probabilmente conoscerei il prospetto a memoria: consiglio chi vi ha investito di fare altrettanto.
 
Ultima modifica:
Millantare un possibile fallimento di sns al momento mi sembra irrealistico..

Che ci siano difficoltà è evidente, ma nn farsi prendere dal panico.

Le senior nn hanno perso nulla.

Le due sul tlx sono ancorate ai 95 con rendimenti ridicoli; la 6,625% scadenza 2016 è oltre i 107.
 
bbva tender su tier 1

Veramente non l'ho trovata :-?

Quella postata qui sotto da Cat è del 20 giugno scorso, su ABS e MBS.

Poi qualche giorno fa c'è stata un'OPA su LT2, ma su Tier 1 non ho visto niente...

Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria S.A. : Subordinated debt tender offer results | 4-Traders

Tutti titoli di diritto spagnolo sembrerebbe

Banco Bil.Viz.Argent (BVA) - BBVA invites holders to tender their Securities

RNS Number : 7542F
Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria SA
20 June 2012








TO THE NATIONAL SECURITIES

EXCHANGE COMMISSION (CNMV)





Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria, S.A.("BBVA") pursuant to the securities
market legislation, hereby files the following:





RELEVANT EVENT



BBVA invites holders of the outstanding asset-backed securities (the
"Securityholders") detailed in the annexed table (the "Senior Securities" and
the "Mezzanine Securities" and, together, the "Securities", and each series of
Securities referred to in the annexed table, a "Series") to tender their
Securities for purchase by the Bank for cash. The Securities have been placed
with qualified investors, both Spanish and international.



Capitalised terms used in this announcement but not defined have the meaning
given to them in the Tender Offer Memorandum dated 20 June 2012.



Purchase price



The purchase of the Securities will be carried out under an unmodified
Dutch-auction procedure. The purchase price that BBVA will pay Securityholders
whose offers are accepted (each price, the "Purchase Price") will be equal to
the price specified by Securityholders in their Tender Instructions.



Securityholders may, in respect of Senior Securities, make competitive and
non-competitive offers with respect to the purchase price of the Securities,
which may or may not be accepted by BBVA. In the non-competitive offers
related to the Senior Securities, the Minimum Purchase Price will be
considered to be the purchase price specified by Securityholders.



In respect of Mezzanine Securities, BBVA will be able to accept offers from
the lowest purchase price tendered to the highest purchase price tendered.



As the Purchase Price applicable to each Securityholder who validly submits a
tender which is accepted by BBVA is determined by reference to the relevant
purchase price specified by such Securityholder in its Tender Instruction, the
Purchase Price payable to each such Securityholder will not necessarily be the
same.



Each Securityholder whose Securities have been validly tendered and accepted
for purchase by BBVA will also receive an accrued interest payment in respect
of any accrued but unpaid interest on the relevant Securities from (and
including) the immediately preceding interest payment date for such Securities
until (but excluding) the Settlement Date.



Acceptance Amount



BBVA will have absolute discretional powers to decide whether the Securities
offered are or are not purchased, pursuant to the terms established in the
Tender Offer Memorandum. BBVA may decide not to purchase any of the
Securities. Likewise and in particular, BBVA reserves the right to purchase a
maximum number of Securities per issue as a function of the offers received.
In determining the acceptance of the offers received BBVA´s consideration will
be the relationship between the price at which the Securities are being
offered versus the underlying risk of the Securities.



General



Securityholders may submit their offers from 20th June 2012 until 17:00 hours
(CET) on 27th June 2012. BBVA will announce the results on 28th June 2012. The
expected Settlement Date for the Invitations is 2nd July 2012. BBVA may, in
its sole discretion, extend, re-open, amend, revoke or terminate any
Invitation at any time as provided in the Tender Offer Memorandum.



The Invitations are being made as part of BBVA´s active management of its
outstanding liabilities and capital and are designed to provide liquidity to
Securityholders. BBVA expects the execution of the Invitations to have a
positive impact on its capital structure, with the objective of enhancing the
levels of BBVA´s capital provisioning and, in particular, the solvency
position of the Group.



The terms and conditions of the Invitations, governed by Spanish Law, are
contained in the Tender Offer Memorandum dated 20 June 2012. The Tender Offer
Memorandum is available to Securityholders from the tender agent, Lucid Issuer
Services Limited (the "Tender Agent"), whose contact information appears
below. Securityholders are advised to read carefully the mentioned Tender
Offer Memorandum.



The Dealer Managers will be Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria, S.A., Barclays
Bank PLC, HSBC Bank plc and Société Générale.



If you need further information on the Invitations, please contact the Tender
Agent: at the following email address: [email protected] /+44 (0) 20 7704
0880, Attention of: David Shilson / Paul Kamminga.





Madrid, 20th June 2012



Disclaimer: Neither the Invitations nor the Tender Offer Memorandum constitute
a securities offer or an offer to purchase securities pursuant to the
Securities Exchange Act, Royal Decree 1310/2005, 4th November, and Royal
Decree 1066/2007. Thus, neither the Invitations nor the Tender Offer
Memorandum are subject to filing at the CNMV (securities exchange authority).
The Invitations are not implemented in any jurisdiction where this is not
permited under its applicable legislation, and in particular, does not
constitute an offer to purchase securities or a request to receive offers for
sale from any US Person, person that is in or resides in the United States of
America, its territories and possessions (including Puerto Rico, the Virgin
Islands of the United States,, Guam, American Samoa, the Wake Island and the
North Mariana Islands) (the "United States"), any of the states in the United
States or the District of Columbia, nor does it constitute an offer or request
addressed to any address in the United States. The Invitations are subject to
other restrictions applicable to it, which are given in detail in the Tender
Offer Memorandum.





ANNEX

SENIOR SECURITIES
Minimum Aggregate
Issuer Series ISIN Purchase Purchase Outstanding
Price Price Principal
Amount
BBVA-3 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A2(G) ES0310110012 95% €32,203,541
Titulización €215,300,000
de Activos
BBVA
HIPOTECARIO 3 Series A2
Fondo de €925,700,000 ES0314227010 94% €153,254,911
Titulización
de Activos
BBVA-4 PYME
Fondo de Series A2 ES0370458012 98% €26,765,804
Titulización €879,300,000
de Activos
BBVA AUTOS 2
Fondo de Series A ES0333761007 98% €96,238,187
Titulización €949,500,000
de Activos
BBVA CONSUMO
1 Fondo de Series A ES0333763003 96% €146,708,902
Titulización €1,447,500,000
de Activos
BBVA-5 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A1 ES0370459002 95% €80,348,015
Titulización €1,472,800,000
de Activos
BBVA-5 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A2 ES0370459010 94% €26,220,380
Titulización €200,000,000
de Activos
BBVA-5 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A3(G) ES0370459028 93% €13,320,751
Titulización €130,300,000
de Activos To be
BBVA CONSUMO determined
2 Fondo de Series A ES0313956007 pursuant to 96% €202,765,847
Titulización €1,440,700,000 the
de Activos Unmodified
BBVA FINANZIA Dutch
AUTOS 1 Fondo Series A Auction
de €744,000,000 ES0313958003 Procedure 97% €103,976,009
Titulización
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 1
Fondo de Series A2 ES0314147010 80% €914,677,260
Titulización €1,400,000,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 1
Fondo de Series A3 ES0314147028 55% €495,000,000
Titulización €495,000,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 2
Fondo de Series A2 ES0314148018 82% €1,547,150,880
Titulización €2,400,000,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 2
Fondo de Series A3 ES0314148026 62% €387,500,000
Titulización €387,500,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 2
Fondo de Series A4 ES0314148034 50% €1,050,000,000
Titulización €1,050,000,000
de Activos
BBVA-6 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A1
Titulización €1,201,900,000 ES0370460000 94% €109,124,347
de Activos
[1]
BBVA-6 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A2(G)
Titulización €215,500,000 ES0370460018 86% €93,825,381
de Activos
[1]
BBVA LEASING
1 Fondo de Series A1 ES0314209000 90% €114,291,525
Titulización €750,000,000
de Activos
BBVA LEASING
1 Fondo de Series A2 ES0314209018 To be 90% €244,766,730
Titulización €1,606,200,000 determined
de Activos pursuant to
BBVA RMBS 3 the
Fondo de Series A1 ES0314149008 Unmodified 60% €551,750,520
Titulización €1,200,000,000 Dutch
de Activos Auction
BBVA RMBS 3 Procedure
Fondo de Series A2 ES0314149016 60% €557,606,191
Titulización €595,500,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 3
Fondo de Series A3a ES0314149057 60% €671,905,335
Titulización €681,031,152
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 3
Fondo de Series A3b ES0314149065 60% €136,206,230
Titulización €136,206,230.40
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 3
Fondo de Series A3c ES0314149073 60% €63,562,908
Titulización €63,562,907.52
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 3
Fondo de Series A3d ES0314149081 60% €27,241,246
Titulización €27,241,246.08
de Activos
BBVA-8 FTPYME
Fondo de Series A2(G) ES0370462014 90% €197,119,075
Titulización €461,700,000
de Activos



[1] Given that the next interest and principal payment date in respect of the
BBVA 6 FTPYME Fondo de Titulización de Activos Series A1 and Series A2(G) in
accordance with and subject to their respective terms and conditions, falls on
22 June 2012, respectively, updated Pool Factors, current denominations and
aggregate outstanding principal amounts will be applicable to such Securities
from such dates, which shall be used for settlement purposes. The Bank will
announce on or before the date of Announcement of Invitation Results the
updated Pool Factors, current denominations and aggregate outstanding
principal amounts applicable to the BBVA 6 FTPYME Fondo de Titulización de
Activos Series A1 and, Series A2(G) for such settlement purposes.





MEZZANINE SECURITIES
Purchase Price Aggregate
Issuer Series ISIN Outstanding
Principal
Amount
BBVA AUTOS 1
Fondo de Series C ES0314204027 €20,504,183
Titulización de €27,000,000
Activos
BBVA-3 FTPYME
Fondo de Series B ES0310110020 €17,657,844
Titulización de €40,800,000
Activos
BBVA-3 FTPYME
Fondo de Series C ES0310110038 €8,049,900
Titulización de €18,600,000
Activos
BBVA HIPOTECARIO
3 Fondo de Series B ES0314227028 €46,525,861
Titulización de €55,900,000
Activos
BBVA HIPOTECARIO
3 Fondo de Series C ES0314227036 €15,731,895
Titulización de €18,900,000
Activos
BBVA-4 PYME Fondo Series B To be determined
de Titulización €28,800,000 ES0370458020 pursuant to the €18,409,870
de Activos Unmodified Dutch
BBVA-4 PYME Fondo Series C Auction Procedure
de Titulización €41,900,000 ES0370458038 €26,783,804
de Activos
BBVA AUTOS 2
Fondo de Series B ES0333761015 €20,500,000
Titulización de €20,500,000
Activos
BBVA AUTOS 2
Fondo de Series C ES0333761023 €30,000,000
Titulización de €30,000,000
Activos
BBVA CONSUMO 1
Fondo de Series B ES0333763011 €28,500,000
Titulización de €28,500,000
Activos
BBVA CONSUMO 1
Fondo de Series C ES0333763029 €24,000,000
Titulización de €24,000,000
Activos
BBVA-5 FTPYME
Fondo de Series B ES0370459036 €39,900,000
Titulización de €39,900,000
Activos
BBVA-5 FTPYME
Fondo de Series C ES0370459044 €57,000,000
Titulización de €57,000,000
Activos
BBVA CONSUMO 2
Fondo de Series B ES0313956015 €16,500,000
Titulización de €16,500,000
Activos
BBVA CONSUMO 2
Fondo de Series C ES0313956023 €42,800,000
Titulización de €42,800,000
Activos
BBVA FINANZIA
AUTOS 1 Fondo de Series B ES0313958011 To be determined €26,800,000
Titulización de €26,800,000 pursuant to the
Activos Unmodified Dutch
BBVA FINANZIA Auction Procedure
AUTOS 1 Fondo de Series C ES0313958029 €29,200,000
Titulización de €29,200,000
Activos
BBVA RMBS 1 Fondo Series B
de Titulización €120,000,000 ES0314147036 €120,000,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 1 Fondo Series C
de Titulización €85,000,000 ES0314147044 €85,000,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 2 Fondo Series B
de Titulización €112,500,000 ES0314148042 €112,500,000
de Activos
BBVA RMBS 2 Fondo Series C
de Titulización €100,000,000 ES0314148059 €100,000,000
de Activos
BBVA-6 FTPYME
Fondo de Series B ES0370460026 €50,300,000
Titulización de €50,300,000
Activos
BBVA-6 FTPYME
Fondo de Series C ES0370460034 €32,300,000
Titulización de €32,300,000
Activos
BBVA LEASING 1
Fondo de Series B ES0314209026 €82,500,000
Titulización de €82,500,000
Activos
BBVA LEASING 1
Fondo de Series C ES0314209034 €61,300,000
Titulización de €61,300,000
Activos





This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange

END


MSCFMGZVNGMGZZG -0- Jun/20/2012 07:33 GMT
 
BayernLB358
Ho aderito all'opa a 47....dopo 4 settimane è a 60..........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr mui bueno campeon !!!
 
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