capt.harlock
MENA IL CAMMELLO FAN CLUB
ho chiamato alle 17,20 e ancora non vi era notizia
Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 3 (2 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione Joe Silver
- Data di Inizio
ho chiamato alle 17,20 e ancora non vi era notizia
azetaelle
investitore(s)qualificato
il solito favorito...
cris71
Forumer storico
vi ringrazio entrambi
vedo con piacere che non sei emigrato cap, non seguo molto, solo qualche operazione, perchè ancora in vacanza, anche se per noi sono gli ulltimi giorni a Kapalua...poi il rientro
russiabond
Il mito, la leggenda.
eccecredo! con lo shopping di gruppo hanno alzato la lettera
per cortesia sai dove si vedono le quotazioni?
...forse qualche lurcker e' entrato ieri in SIZE...
Isin unipol
UnipolSai, prezzato alla pari bond perpetuo 750 mln 5,75%, ms+418 pb | Reuters
...torno tra i lurcker
negusneg
New Member
No, ma ho trovato questo articolo che non mi sembra fosse stato postato
Tier 1 bonds rocked after Credit Suisse call threat
Thu, Feb 6 2014
* Credit Suisse old style Tier 1 bonds sink on call risks
* Banks could follow corporate lead and break market taboo
* Issuers weigh up cost benefit of old style bonds
By Aimee Donnellan
LONDON, Feb 6 (IFR) - A second warning shot fired by Credit Suisse on Thursday that it might retire a hybrid Tier 1 bond early sent the price of the issue tumbling and left the market on edge about whether other banks will go down the same path.
The Swiss bank's 7.875% USD1.5bn Tier 1 bond dropped 3.5 points on expectations it will take advantage of a clause allowing it to call the transaction early due to the loss of regulatory or rating agency benefit.
As those calls tend to be at par or 101 - well below where the bonds are generally trading - investors stand to lose money, and analysts have already singled out Deutsche Bank and Lloyds as potentially doing something similar.
Although some investors are up in arms, bankers said they should not have been surprised by Credit Suisse's tough talk on an earnings call Thursday, especially as the bank had already flagged the potential move around a year ago.
"A regulatory call for partial loss of treatment is pretty clear in the Credit Suisse terms and investors happily bought into it at the time," said Daniel Bell, head of EMEA DCM capital products at Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
"It is about allocation of the risk of regulatory changes."
He predicted a backlash from investors if Credit Suisse does decide to exercise the call.
"We may start to see investors looking to shift the risk back to the issuer by asking for a premium call price on bonds that carry regulatory call options, particularly for partial loss of treatment."
TOUGHER STANCE
So far, banks have been loathe to exercise their right to call from fear of raising the wrath of investors. Indeed, issuers such as Danske and Societe Generale have opted for safer liability management exercises instead to meet investors half way.
Both offered slight premiums over where their bonds were trading to retire Tier 2 issues that had lost almost all of their equity content with S&P - even though they could have called them at par.
But analysts at CreditSights have already warned that banks might not be quite as lenient going forward. They reckon there is a higher probability of bond calls in 2014 than in previous years as bonds with coupon step-ups will drop out of regulatory capital at the first call date.
The idea of an early call has certainly caused some anxiety in the investor community - where hopes were that banks would stick to a friendly approach - and some are now reassessing the risks.
"In general investors are very concerned about banks calling bonds early for regulatory reasons," said Dierk Brandenburg, a senior bank credit analyst at Fidelity.
"If Credit Suisse were to go for an early call option as opposed to a liability management approach, it would be deemed very aggressive by the market and there is a fear that other banks would follow suit."
WHO'S NEXT?
Some question why banks would choose to keep the peace with investors when corporates such as Telecom Italia and ArcelorMittal have already called hybrid issues well below where they were trading, and without any sweeteners. [ID: nL5N0KV1IM] .
Deutsche Bank is seen as an obvious candidate to call, although analysts say that it will at least wait until Germany has an agreed Additional Tier 1 structure.
Once that comes, Deutsche could threaten a regulatory par call against an aggressive LME of their Tier 1s into new AT1, according to Morgan Stanley analysts, who say the bank is looking to raise EUR5bn in AT1 debt by 2015.
Others, though, say the situation isn't quite so clear cut, and that Credit Suisse may not be so quick to call its old style instruments.
According to one liability management expert, certain issuers are weighing up the cost of maintaining these instruments as essentially Tier 2 debt rather than retiring them.
"A bank might still think it worthwhile to keep a bond outstanding as a loss-absorbing or bail-inable instrument, or even simply as cheap long-term funding," said CreditSights analysts.
Meanwhile, another analyst speculated it could have been a clever manoeuvre by Credit Suisse to avoid paying over the odds to buy the bonds back.
"They may have floated the idea of an early call out to the market so the bond prices fall and they can launch a more cost-effective liability management exercise," said Christy Hajiloizou, a credit analyst at Barclays.
"The issuer is likely to be looking at a number of scenarios, talking with investors to decide on the best course of action, including the potential of an early call."
negusneg
New Member
Eccolo
Credit Suisse to price Yankee AT1 Wednesday | Capital City | IFRe
Credit Suisse to price Yankee AT1 Wednesday
10 June 2014 | By Aimee Donnellan, Danielle Robinson
Credit Suisse is about to break a drought in European bank issuance of dollar denominated Additional Tier 1 in the Yankee market, with a transaction that’s in rule 144A format as well as Reg S.
The perpetual non-call 10.5-year is scheduled to price on Wednesday and will be the first Yankee Tier 1 since January 15, when Credit Agricole issued US$1.75bn of 7.875% perpNC 10s.
The size objective is around US$2bn, according to market sources, with initial price thoughts set at 6.375% area, as Credit Suisse headed into Asia to market the deal overnight.
A number of European banks, like Santander, Deutsche Bank and UBS, have bypassed the 144A Yankee market for AT1 and even Tier 2 subordinated bonds in recent months, after discovering equal or better pricing available in the Reg S market, where US-domiciled investors cannot participate.
But since the ECB’s stimulus moves, many Yankee capital securities issues have soared in price.
Credit Suisse’s outstanding 7.5% perpNC 10s issued last year in the 144A/Reg S markets, have surged from US$109.00 to US$112 since the ECB news, taking yield to call levels from 6.23% to 5.85%.
“At these kinds of yields I’m not sure how great the RegS and 144A pricing differential is anymore… maybe 10–12bp?” said one Financial Institutions Group (FIG) coverage banker.
Pricing differences were more evident for higher beta European bank names, he said.
”With JP Morgan coming at 5.00% for a perpNC 5 [last week] and the 5s/10s curve around 90–95bp, there has also been a compression between the premium charged for Yankee AT1s and plain vanilla US bank preferreds.”
Generous IPTs
Banks from other jurisdictions are also taking note of the improved levels in the Yankee market. Banco do Brasil is scheduled to issue a Tier 1 perpNC 10 preferred in the Yankee market on Wednesday, with official price guidance at 9.00%–9.25%.
While the Reg S market has been competitive for price and size, it has also allowed some of the high quality European bank names to achieve their capital raising goals without having to go through the 144A documentation process.
For Credit Suisse, however, 144A makes sense because it already has its 7.5% perpNC 10s trading in the 144A market.
The deal, with expected ratings of BB/BB+, will be a replica of its 7.5% perpNC 10s, with a full write-down if common equity Tier 1 capital drops to 5.125%.
It also has dividend stopper language, something that can win tighter pricing for an AT1 in the 144A market.
At 6.375% IPTs, Credit Suisse appears to be starting out very generously.
One banker thought the low 6s made sense and one investor saw fair value at around 6.25%.
Credit Suisse has been steadily boosting its capital base over the past year. At the beginning of August, it issued a US$2.5bn low-trigger Tier 2 total loss CoCo with a coupon of 6.5%, and hit the Swiss Franc market the same month with a SFr250m perpetual non-call five-year 6% low-trigger Tier 1 CoCo. And then it sold its Yankee 7.5% perpNC 10s in December.
bosmeld
Forumer storico
ho letto che in diversi avete preso la famosa veneto banca che fino a ieri era super illiquida.
Posso domandarvi perche la avete comprata peraltro al prezzo di 94?
E' stata illiquida per diversi anni, non giorni. Il che mi pare un rischio da non sottovalutare. Magari da domani ci sara' sempre mm pronto io non lo so
Ma se si compra sto titolo tocca essere pronti a tenerla anche per molto tempo.
Inoltre vento banca non e' sicuramente una banca particolarmente solida, basta leggere ultimi articoli di cronaca.
Io anche avevo cercato di comprarla diverso tempo fa, ma quando aveva prezzi teorici ben piu bassi.
Visto che il mercato e' impostato al rialzo magari ci si ritova anche questa qui a 100.
Personalmente a prescindere considerando che A era super illiquida B veneto banca non e cmq una banca super solida, sarei passato a 94.
Peraltro si puo sapere a che prezzo e il denaro e se e operativo?
spero ovviamente che tutti gli amici che hanno comprato il titolo guadagnino e che veneto banca rimborsi alla call, ma non mi pare un pasto gratis a questo prezzo.
Posso domandarvi perche la avete comprata peraltro al prezzo di 94?
E' stata illiquida per diversi anni, non giorni. Il che mi pare un rischio da non sottovalutare. Magari da domani ci sara' sempre mm pronto io non lo so
Ma se si compra sto titolo tocca essere pronti a tenerla anche per molto tempo.
Inoltre vento banca non e' sicuramente una banca particolarmente solida, basta leggere ultimi articoli di cronaca.
Io anche avevo cercato di comprarla diverso tempo fa, ma quando aveva prezzi teorici ben piu bassi.
Visto che il mercato e' impostato al rialzo magari ci si ritova anche questa qui a 100.
Personalmente a prescindere considerando che A era super illiquida B veneto banca non e cmq una banca super solida, sarei passato a 94.
Peraltro si puo sapere a che prezzo e il denaro e se e operativo?
spero ovviamente che tutti gli amici che hanno comprato il titolo guadagnino e che veneto banca rimborsi alla call, ma non mi pare un pasto gratis a questo prezzo.
caligola2005
Forumer attivo
Scusate la call di bawag XS0119643897 al 31 luglio è certa e a 100? o con qualche ops? perchè il mio intermediario dice che non ha notizia
cris71
Forumer storico
danke viel mal Russia...forse qualche lurcker e' entrato ieri in SIZE...
Isin unipol
UnipolSai, prezzato alla pari bond perpetuo 750 mln 5,75%, ms+418 pb | Reuters
...torno tra i lurcker