Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 3 (27 lettori)

[wartburg_12]

il MPS 827 ha perso circa 10 punti dai massimi recenti qlc ancora lo ha in ptf?

IO lo tiengo, e, per non farmi mancare nulla, avevo comprato anche la sorella Antonveneta 115 (per fortuna entrambe con importi NON enormi )

Nelle settimane/mesi scorsi almeno la MPS aveva raggiunto il price di acquisto (avrei perso SOLO circa 300 € se l'avessi venduta ...) e, mentre mi chiedevo SE era il caso di venderla o no ... il tempo è passato e adesso ci perdo 1272 € = la tengo lì e vedo SE nel futuro prossimo/remoto riesco a sbolognarla ...

 

[solovaloreaggiunto]

il bnp 4.875 che dovrebbe essere callato il 17 ottobre, mi sa che salta di un anno.. il bbg da ora 17/10/2015

 

[solovaloreaggiunto]

Rott materiale per te...ora lo mando

 

[solovaloreaggiunto]

Event: Achmea (--/A-n/--) just announced that it would waive its right to call itits ACHMEA 6% 04-23-43 at par before the first call date if the Solvency II rules were to take effect in their current form. According to Achmea, the bond, which was structured to comply with Solvency II (known rules as of issuance date), will probably not comply with the newest technical specifications (please refer to our Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) and the included rules for Tier-2 own funds. Thus, the regulatory call option would be on 1 January 2016 when Solvency II (regulatory call) takes effect. Achmea has now announced that it would waive this option “irrevocably…vis-à-vis all relevant current and future note-holders ahead of its first scheduled optional redemption date in April 2023 for as long as the notes maintain 100% recognition as Tier-2 capital. In other cases, the option will remain in full force and effect and is not waived.”
Impact: This last sentence is crucial. While the waiver of the call right is an investor-friendly move by Achmea, a regulatory call in January 2016 (due to economic reasons) would have been a very-investor-unfriendly move and would have probably resulted in reputational damage, as the grandfathering rules for Solvency II in their current form allow for 100% recognition of capital from a bond that is not Solvency II compliant as long as it fulfills the Solvency I requirements that are to be included in the 25% bucket. However, should the European Insurance and Occupational Pensions Authority (EIOPA) issue new amended technical specifications that include a capital-amortization scheme that is comparable to Basel III (e.g. 10% less capital recognition each year after Solvency II comes into force on 1 January 2016), a regulatory call is still possible. At the moment, the EIOPA’s most recently issued technical specifications and the latest Omnibus II regulations, which include the grandfathering rules for insurance-subordinated capital, do not include such an amortization plan. However, it is still possible that such an amortization plan will be introduced by the European regulators to speed up the exchange of old-style capital with higher-quality new-style capital. Especially the most recent bullet issues by some Italian insurance companies (ASSGEN, UNIPOL, POSIM) were structured only with the grandfathering period of 10 years in mind. They represent the lowest type of capital quality possible (from the regulators point-of-view). Thus, they are very cheap for the insurer. That companies issue low-quality capital to exploit the grandfathering rules cannot be the intention of the regulator.
Even though we have not heard any rumors (or anything at all yet) regarding the potential implementation of a capital amortization plan, we cannot rule it out. Therefore, a regulatory call risk lingers over all old style Tier-2s, especially over the Tier-2 bullets that were issued this year. On the other hand, the announcement by Achmea reduces the regulatory call risk from January 2016 on, given that the rules will come into effect according to the most-recent technical specifications. While the announcement is only legally binding for Achmea, we believe that ACHMEA’s understanding of the current regulatory environment serves as an example for the whole industry. We expect those issuers that have comparable wording in their bond documentation (e.g. ASSGEN and MUNRE; please see Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) to have the same understanding (e.g. not using their regulatory call rights as long as they get 100% capital recognition).

 

[londonwhale]

il bnp 4.875 che dovrebbe essere callato il 17 ottobre, mi sa che salta di un anno.. il bbg da ora 17/10/2015

sì, se non sbaglio la notifica doveva essere fatta 30 giorni prima della call, e non è arrivata, ci si rivede ad ottobre 2015!

 

[nuvola nera]

IO lo tiengo, e, per non farmi mancare nulla, avevo comprato anche la sorella Antonveneta 115 (per fortuna entrambe con importi NON enormi )

Nelle settimane/mesi scorsi almeno la MPS aveva raggiunto il price di acquisto (avrei perso SOLO circa 300 € se l'avessi venduta ...) e, mentre mi chiedevo SE era il caso di venderla o no ... il tempo è passato e adesso ci perdo 1272 € = la tengo lì e vedo SE nel futuro prossimo/remoto riesco a sbolognarla ...

Da buongustaio anch'io non me la faccio mancare...non guardo molto quanto ci perderei vendendo ....penso invece a quanto guadagnerei se arrivasse a 100 ... E ho anche la cuginetta antonven. Di ASr per ora ho venduto la 10. % ragionando che così è come se mi anticipassero 3 cedole , l'altra sto ancora riflettendo .....stesso problema dove li butto . .? Cose interessanti e con importi non da paperone non vedo molto in giro o ci si arrischia su storie complesse o ci si accontenta .

 

[Rottweiler]

Event: Achmea (--/A-n/--) just announced that it would waive its right to call itits ACHMEA 6% 04-23-43 at par before the first call date if the Solvency II rules were to take effect in their current form. According to Achmea, the bond, which was structured to comply with Solvency II (known rules as of issuance date), will probably not comply with the newest technical specifications (please refer to our Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) and the included rules for Tier-2 own funds. Thus, the regulatory call option would be on 1 January 2016 when Solvency II (regulatory call) takes effect. Achmea has now announced that it would waive this option “irrevocably…vis-à-vis all relevant current and future note-holders ahead of its first scheduled optional redemption date in April 2023 for as long as the notes maintain 100% recognition as Tier-2 capital. In other cases, the option will remain in full force and effect and is not waived.”
Impact: This last sentence is crucial. While the waiver of the call right is an investor-friendly move by Achmea, a regulatory call in January 2016 (due to economic reasons) would have been a very-investor-unfriendly move and would have probably resulted in reputational damage, as the grandfathering rules for Solvency II in their current form allow for 100% recognition of capital from a bond that is not Solvency II compliant as long as it fulfills the Solvency I requirements that are to be included in the 25% bucket. However, should the European Insurance and Occupational Pensions Authority (EIOPA) issue new amended technical specifications that include a capital-amortization scheme that is comparable to Basel III (e.g. 10% less capital recognition each year after Solvency II comes into force on 1 January 2016), a regulatory call is still possible. At the moment, the EIOPA’s most recently issued technical specifications and the latest Omnibus II regulations, which include the grandfathering rules for insurance-subordinated capital, do not include such an amortization plan. However, it is still possible that such an amortization plan will be introduced by the European regulators to speed up the exchange of old-style capital with higher-quality new-style capital. Especially the most recent bullet issues by some Italian insurance companies (ASSGEN, UNIPOL, POSIM) were structured only with the grandfathering period of 10 years in mind. They represent the lowest type of capital quality possible (from the regulators point-of-view). Thus, they are very cheap for the insurer. That companies issue low-quality capital to exploit the grandfathering rules cannot be the intention of the regulator.
Even though we have not heard any rumors (or anything at all yet) regarding the potential implementation of a capital amortization plan, we cannot rule it out. Therefore, a regulatory call risk lingers over all old style Tier-2s, especially over the Tier-2 bullets that were issued this year. On the other hand, the announcement by Achmea reduces the regulatory call risk from January 2016 on, given that the rules will come into effect according to the most-recent technical specifications. While the announcement is only legally binding for Achmea, we believe that ACHMEA’s understanding of the current regulatory environment serves as an example for the whole industry. We expect those issuers that have comparable wording in their bond documentation (e.g. ASSGEN and MUNRE; please see Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) to have the same understanding (e.g. not using their regulatory call rights as long as they get 100% capital recognition).

Grazie SVA

(Hai MP)

 

[TheLondoner]

Event: Achmea (--/A-n/--) just announced that it would waive its right to call itits ACHMEA 6% 04-23-43 at par before the first call date if the Solvency II rules were to take effect in their current form. According to Achmea, the bond, which was structured to comply with Solvency II (known rules as of issuance date), will probably not comply with the newest technical specifications (please refer to our Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) and the included rules for Tier-2 own funds. Thus, the regulatory call option would be on 1 January 2016 when Solvency II (regulatory call) takes effect. Achmea has now announced that it would waive this option “irrevocably…vis-à-vis all relevant current and future note-holders ahead of its first scheduled optional redemption date in April 2023 for as long as the notes maintain 100% recognition as Tier-2 capital. In other cases, the option will remain in full force and effect and is not waived.”
Impact: This last sentence is crucial. While the waiver of the call right is an investor-friendly move by Achmea, a regulatory call in January 2016 (due to economic reasons) would have been a very-investor-unfriendly move and would have probably resulted in reputational damage, as the grandfathering rules for Solvency II in their current form allow for 100% recognition of capital from a bond that is not Solvency II compliant as long as it fulfills the Solvency I requirements that are to be included in the 25% bucket. However, should the European Insurance and Occupational Pensions Authority (EIOPA) issue new amended technical specifications that include a capital-amortization scheme that is comparable to Basel III (e.g. 10% less capital recognition each year after Solvency II comes into force on 1 January 2016), a regulatory call is still possible. At the moment, the EIOPA’s most recently issued technical specifications and the latest Omnibus II regulations, which include the grandfathering rules for insurance-subordinated capital, do not include such an amortization plan. However, it is still possible that such an amortization plan will be introduced by the European regulators to speed up the exchange of old-style capital with higher-quality new-style capital. Especially the most recent bullet issues by some Italian insurance companies (ASSGEN, UNIPOL, POSIM) were structured only with the grandfathering period of 10 years in mind. They represent the lowest type of capital quality possible (from the regulators point-of-view). Thus, they are very cheap for the insurer. That companies issue low-quality capital to exploit the grandfathering rules cannot be the intention of the regulator.
Even though we have not heard any rumors (or anything at all yet) regarding the potential implementation of a capital amortization plan, we cannot rule it out. Therefore, a regulatory call risk lingers over all old style Tier-2s, especially over the Tier-2 bullets that were issued this year. On the other hand, the announcement by Achmea reduces the regulatory call risk from January 2016 on, given that the rules will come into effect according to the most-recent technical specifications. While the announcement is only legally binding for Achmea, we believe that ACHMEA’s understanding of the current regulatory environment serves as an example for the whole industry. We expect those issuers that have comparable wording in their bond documentation (e.g. ASSGEN and MUNRE; please see Credit Flash from 20 May for more details) to have the same understanding (e.g. not using their regulatory call rights as long as they get 100% capital recognition).

Grazie Sva.
Hai per caso qualche news sul RoadShow di ASR riguardo il lancio del nuovo bond?
La questione potrebbe essere di un qualche interesse anche per altri perpetualisti che hanno in portafoglio i bond srlev

 

[paolo.libero]

Event: Achmea (--/A-n/--) just announced that it would waive its right to call itits ACHMEA 6% 04-23-43 at par before the first call date if the Solvency II rules were to take effect in their current form. According to Achmea, the bond, which was structured to comply with Solvency II (known rules as of issuance date), will probably not comply with the newest technical specifications (please refer to our


scusa sva se ti chiedo l'ovvio ... da quello che mi sembra di capire la nota postata dice che probabilmente l ACHMEA 6% NL0000168714 ( che ho in ptf) non sarà richiamata fino al 2016 e probabilmente nel 2023 .... giusto .. grazie

 

[solovaloreaggiunto]

Anche a me sembra cosi, oggi è salita infatti. Ma Rott è il supremo quindi attendiamo lui..