Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

[nik.sala]

Kbc 747 ora con iwb buy 65.5

te pareva

 

[Alessandra73]

Deutsche Borse XS0369549570

Sarei interessata all'acquisto di questa Deutsche Borse XS0369549570 :
rating A+ cedole cum no loss 1K 7,5% fino a 13/06/2013 poi IRS5A+2,85% fino al 13/06/2018 poi EUR12M+3,85% fino a scadenza 13/06/2038 .

Chiedevo un vostro parere sulla qualità dell'emittente, ovvero come può la borsa tedesca fallire ? dove sta il rischio ?

Qualcuno che ha bloomberg può darmi i prezzi aggiornati ?

grazie 1000

 

[Topgun1976]

Sarei interessata all'acquisto di questa Deutsche Borse XS0369549570 :
rating A+ cedole cum no loss 1K 7,5% fino a 13/06/2013 poi IRS5A+2,85% fino al 13/06/2018 poi EUR12M+3,85% fino a scadenza 13/06/2038 .

Chiedevo un vostro parere sulla qualità dell'emittente, ovvero come può la borsa tedesca fallire ? dove sta il rischio ?

Qualcuno che ha bloomberg può darmi i prezzi aggiornati ?

grazie 1000

Sull'emittente puoi andare stratranquilla Prezzo sui 103

 

[maxinblack]

Presa KBC 747 a 66

 

[Alessandra73]

Sull'emittente puoi andare stratranquilla Prezzo sui 103

grazie 1000 !!!

 

[wartburg_12]

Sns 155

Preso SNS 155 a 48 addebitati 24.836,90 € ...
Io sarei cassettista ... me la sono fatta andare bene anche a questo prezzo

 

[nik.sala]

Preso SNS 155 a 48 .... io sarei cassettista ... me la sono fatta andare bene anche a questo prezzo

beh, se decontestualizzi il momentum...a 48, cum no loss, holland, 6,258% fino al 2017
alla faccia dell'andar bene, sei un buongustaio

 

[Rottweiler]

Non vorrei rompere l'idillio di questi ultimi due giorni, ma... quando si comincia a parlare di un argomento, quello pian piano rischia di farsi strada..

European Bank Bondholders May Look to Ireland for Hints of Fate

European lenders looking to raise 106 billion euros ($148 billion) might turn to Ireland, the home of the region’s worst banking crisis, for a blueprint.
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said today “liability management exercises” are one avenue for recapitalizing Europe’s banks under rules laid out by regulators late yesterday in response to the euro area’s sovereign debt crisis. That’s code for sharing losses with junior bank bondholders, a strategy pioneered by the Irish to cut the cost of saving their financial system.
“There’s a range of options for the European banks, like asset sales and liability management exercises,” Eamonn Hughes, banking analyst at Goodbody Stockbrokers in Dublin, said today. “They can look for a few hints from Ireland’s experience. Ireland is a test case for capital raising.”
Ireland has raised 15 billion euros, equal to about 10 percent of the country’s economic output, since 2009 from sharing losses with investors after the collapse of the real estate market sank the financial industry. Ireland introduced emergency laws last year allowing the state to impose losses on junior holders of bank bonds.
As part of their package aimed at tackling the debt crisis agreed during the night, European leaders said in a joint statement today that banks in the euro region should raise capital including “through restructuring and conversion of debt to equity instruments.”

Taking Hints
“Policy makers seem determined to use subordinated debt instruments to help recap the banks,” Richard Thomas, London- based analyst at Bank of America Corp.’s Merrill Lynch, said in a note. “Whether banks take the hint is another matter.”
The European Banking Authority estimates Spanish banks require 26.2 billion euros of extra money and Italian banks 14.8 billion euros. It gave them until Dec. 25 to submit money- raising plans to national supervisors.
Banks that fail to raise enough capital in the markets will first tap national governments, falling back on the European Financial Stability Facility rescue fund only as a last resort.
Irish banks don’t need to raise extra capital, the banking authority said. That “reinforces the robust and conservative nature” of a capital review by the country’s authorities in March, Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan said last night.
In all, Ireland has injected about 62 billion euros into its financial system and the government now controls five of the country’s six biggest lenders. In the March stress tests, banks were ordered to raise 24 billion euros. The state’s contribution was reduced to about 17 billion euros, partly because losses were imposed on junior bondholders.

Learning Lessons
“I’d say they’d be looking very closely at what we’ve done,” said Michael Torpey, a banking official at Ireland’s Finance Ministry, told reporters in Dublin today. “If I was sitting in another country, I’d be saying, ‘Let’s see what lessons we can learn. We don’t have to copy them exactly.’”
Allied Irish Banks Plc (ALBK), now 99 percent state-owned, said in July it would raise about 2 billion euros from buying back subordinated bonds after inflicting losses of as much as 90 percent on investors. Had holders not accepted, the new laws meant they faced losing virtually all their investment.
It may not be that bad for European bank bondholders, because withholding dividends and selling assets may reduce the amount financial companies need to raise.
“We do expect more liability management trades but suspect that the levels of capital needing to be raised aren’t sufficiently challenging to mean very negative outcomes for bondholders in most cases,” said Thomas at Bank of America.
Torpey said the approach in various countries may vary with the depth of their banking problems compared with Ireland. The collapse of country’s financial system forced Ireland to seek an international bailout last year.
“If I was sitting in one of the other countries, one of the questions you’d ask is what is the scale of capital raising,” Torpey said. “If there are countries which have problems that are as deep, then they have to be prepared to look at solutions that are as severe.”

European Bank Bondholders May Look to Ireland for Hints of Fate - Bloomberg

Ciao Discipline,
l'articolo che hai postato mi sembra significativo di quello che in passato ho già definito il "metodo Bloomberg". Ovvero: spargiamo dubbi sull'Europa, qualcosa resterà.
Tracciare un parallelo tra la situazione irlandese e quella prossima ventura in Europa è veramente giornalismo terroristico. Basta confrontare il titolo (ovviamente in grande evidenza) con la chiusura: il primo ("European Bank Bondholders May Look to Ireland for Hints of Fate") fa riferimento in modo generico ai detentori europei (quindi tutti) e fa balenare uno scenario da fine del mondo; la seconda, lapalissiana, (“If there are countries which have problems that are as deep, then they have to be prepared to look at solutions that are as severe.”) corregge il tiro e circoscrive lo scenario drammatico ad eventuali situazioni simili all'Irlanda (Grecia?).
Questa, a mio avviso, è una pratica giornalistica immorale.

 

[amorgos34]

OT e COCOBOND IMPOSSIBILI (quasi)

Ma la ciccia dell'incontro della scorsa notte dov'è ?
Promesse scritte sulla sabbia ? Un po'come la letterina scritta da Silvio ( E AVALLATA DA DRAGHI) ?

Poniamo per un secondo che il tutto sia vero, sarebbe un forte incentivo all'emissione di coco's da parte di, per restare in Italia, UNI o del Bancone, e una spinta al richiamo di quelli fuori ora.

Ma a che tasso dovrebbero uscire, visto che la UNI 243 (o la 059) quota attorno a 70, con un CY (prescindendo dal YTC) elevatissimo: i cococ-bond, essendo notevolmento meno masticabili, dovrebbero offrire ancora di più.
Non oso pensare il tasso poi di un coco-bond del Banco Popolare.

Morale della favola : la soluzione cocobond (come suggerito ieri da molti "esperti") è più semplice a dirsi che a farsi.

Se mai li faranno i tempi sono ristretti, visto che il 9% dovrà essere rispettato, se ben ricordo, entro l'estate prossima.

 

[wartburg_12]

beh, se decontestualizzi il momentum...a 48, cum no loss, holland, 6,258% fino al 2017
alla faccia dell'andar bene, sei un buongustaio

Comunque hai ragione : se 'decontestualizzo' non è un brutto andare (SPERO !)