Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2 (4 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione caligola2005
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Topgun1976
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capt.harlock
MENA IL CAMMELLO FAN CLUB
ciao,
mi gireresti L'isin e le caratteristiche
domanda x tutti: con cosa la scambiereste ING 127? (ho gia ba-ca)
nibc357 quota sui 40 se vuoi rimanere su una irs cum olanda con buona liquidita'' dell'' emittente ( chiaramente non dello stesso spessore di ing)
ma disc dice bene, finita l'' offerta se le condizioni di mercato rimangono queste la 127 torna a 45/47
9/15
Forumer storico
liquidità in c/c ......altra tranche venduta a 55.75
MM?
Vet
Forumer storico
solovaloreaggiunto
Forumer storico
con IWBANK si puo' aderire all'offerta di ING dei 2 tier 1 , 127 e 587 ?
drbs315
Forumer storico
Verissimo; vorrei intanto segnalare lo strano comportamento della F Van Lansch tds link 374. Dopo l'offerta a 75 vedo su Euronext bid a 58 e scambi a 58,1. Come vi spiegate quotazioni così alte, rispetto al resto del mercato per titoli analoghi, a opa scaduta? Forse l'operazione ha accresciuto la solidità percepita della banca o la riduzione dell'outstanding potrebbe spiegare i riacquisti da parte della banca stessa a prezzi relativamente alti?
Rottweiler
Forumer storico
Ecco il testo del comunicato di Moody's, che contribuisce non poco al pessimismo odierno dei mercati. Ho grassettato alcuni passaggi. Mi chiedo cosa dovesse essere deciso a Bruxelles per indurre Moody's a emettere un comunicato almeno "possibilista".
Sappiamo tutti che l'Europa è lungi dall'aver risolto i propri problemi. Questa dichiarazione però sembra improntata al pessimismo cosmico, quasi a dire che "niente di buono possa venire dall'Europa":
Moody's: Euro Area Sovereigns Remain Under Pressure In Absence of Decisive Initiatives
Global Credit Research - 12 Dec 2011
London, 12 December 2011 -- In view of the continued absence of decisive policy measures despite the recent euro area summit, Moody's Investors Service is reiterating its intention to revisit the ratings of all EU sovereigns during the first quarter of 2012. As Moody's had stated in November, this is because the absence of measures to stabilise credit markets over the short term means that the euro area, and the wider EU, remain prone to further shocks and the cohesion of the euro area under continued threat.
Last Friday, European policymakers announced additional measures aimed at addressing the formidable challenges facing the euro area. Moody's acknowledges that the announcement underlines the continued desire among euro area politicians to move towards centralised fiscal coordination and mutualisation of resources and risks. However, Moody's believes that the announcement offers few new measures and points out that many are similar to previously announced ones. (Measures to strengthen oversight of excessive deficits were first announced in H1 2011, while the intention to strengthen national budgetary frameworks and improve coordination and cooperation was announced in October, as was the aim of leveraging the EFSF.)
Overall, Moody's believes that the announced measures reflect the continuing tension between euro area leaders' recognition of the need to increase support for fiscally weaker countries and the significant opposition within stronger countries to doing so. Amid growing pressures on euro area authorities to act quickly to restore credit market confidence, the constraints they face are also rising. The longer this remains the case, the greater the risk of adverse economic conditions that would add to the already sizeable challenges facing the authorities' coordination and debt-reduction efforts.
The announced measures therefore do not change Moody's previously expressed view that the crisis is in a critical and volatile stage, with sovereign and bank debt markets prone to acute dislocation which policymakers will find increasingly hard to contain. While Moody's central scenario remains that the euro area will be preserved without further widespread defaults, the shocks that are likely to materialise even under this 'positive' scenario carry negative rating implications in the coming months. Moreover, the longer the incremental approach to policy persists, the greater the likelihood of more severe scenarios, including those involving multiple defaults by euro area countries and those additionally involving exits from the euro area.
The credit implications of these and further measures likely to be announced in coming weeks require careful consideration against the backdrop of decelerating regional economic activity, fragile banking systems, partly dysfunctional credit markets, and the varying degree of success of country-specific measures aimed at structural change and fiscal consolidation. But in the absence of policy initiatives in the near future that stabilise credit market conditions effectively, Moody's believes that the system remains prone to further shocks, which would likely lead to selective rating changes. As a result, Moody's intention remains to revisit sovereign ratings of euro are and EU countries during the first quarter of 2012.
Sappiamo tutti che l'Europa è lungi dall'aver risolto i propri problemi. Questa dichiarazione però sembra improntata al pessimismo cosmico, quasi a dire che "niente di buono possa venire dall'Europa":
Moody's: Euro Area Sovereigns Remain Under Pressure In Absence of Decisive Initiatives
Global Credit Research - 12 Dec 2011
London, 12 December 2011 -- In view of the continued absence of decisive policy measures despite the recent euro area summit, Moody's Investors Service is reiterating its intention to revisit the ratings of all EU sovereigns during the first quarter of 2012. As Moody's had stated in November, this is because the absence of measures to stabilise credit markets over the short term means that the euro area, and the wider EU, remain prone to further shocks and the cohesion of the euro area under continued threat.
Last Friday, European policymakers announced additional measures aimed at addressing the formidable challenges facing the euro area. Moody's acknowledges that the announcement underlines the continued desire among euro area politicians to move towards centralised fiscal coordination and mutualisation of resources and risks. However, Moody's believes that the announcement offers few new measures and points out that many are similar to previously announced ones. (Measures to strengthen oversight of excessive deficits were first announced in H1 2011, while the intention to strengthen national budgetary frameworks and improve coordination and cooperation was announced in October, as was the aim of leveraging the EFSF.)
Overall, Moody's believes that the announced measures reflect the continuing tension between euro area leaders' recognition of the need to increase support for fiscally weaker countries and the significant opposition within stronger countries to doing so. Amid growing pressures on euro area authorities to act quickly to restore credit market confidence, the constraints they face are also rising. The longer this remains the case, the greater the risk of adverse economic conditions that would add to the already sizeable challenges facing the authorities' coordination and debt-reduction efforts.
The announced measures therefore do not change Moody's previously expressed view that the crisis is in a critical and volatile stage, with sovereign and bank debt markets prone to acute dislocation which policymakers will find increasingly hard to contain. While Moody's central scenario remains that the euro area will be preserved without further widespread defaults, the shocks that are likely to materialise even under this 'positive' scenario carry negative rating implications in the coming months. Moreover, the longer the incremental approach to policy persists, the greater the likelihood of more severe scenarios, including those involving multiple defaults by euro area countries and those additionally involving exits from the euro area.
The credit implications of these and further measures likely to be announced in coming weeks require careful consideration against the backdrop of decelerating regional economic activity, fragile banking systems, partly dysfunctional credit markets, and the varying degree of success of country-specific measures aimed at structural change and fiscal consolidation. But in the absence of policy initiatives in the near future that stabilise credit market conditions effectively, Moody's believes that the system remains prone to further shocks, which would likely lead to selective rating changes. As a result, Moody's intention remains to revisit sovereign ratings of euro are and EU countries during the first quarter of 2012.
Vet
Forumer storico
Mio personale convinzione.......l'Europa o meglio l'euro è di fatto in guerra da diverso tempo con gli usa o meglio il dollaro......e questi ultimi certo non si fanno scrupolo di usare tutte le armi a loro disposizione (purtroppo si sà che ne hanno tante).......pensare a un dollaro non più valuta primaria nel mercato delle materie prime e tutto il resto.....vuol dire Usa nel precipizio......non penso che lo faranno passare......con tutti i mezzi leciti o illeciti.
drbs315
Forumer storico
Temo, avendolo letto, che sia chiaro il riferimento ad una politica di QE per l'economia europea nella sua complessità e ad un intervento deciso della Bce (direttamente, o tramite licenza bancaria per l'Esm, o tramite prestiti al Fmi - non nella misura prefigurata) sul mercato dei tds (per inciso è quello che, a parole, ovviamente, e con buona infarinatura propagandistica, propone Hollande). L'ultimo capoverso è indicativo. Vogliono la garanzia che gli eventuali investimenti in titoli pubblici saranno interamente ripagati - costi quel che costi, beninteso..
Se poi, Rott, ci mettiamo da soli il carico da 90...
PRESSE: Le Bundestag doute de la légalité du pacte européen
Data: 12/12/2011 @ 10:57
Fonte: Bourse Web Dow Jones (French)
Le président du Bundestag doute que les mesures adoptées la semaine dernière pour renforcer l'intégration budgétaire au sein de la zone euro seront considérées comme légales par la cour constitutionnelle allemande, selon un entretien qu'il a accordé au magazine allemand Der Spiegel.
Le Parlement allemand va évaluer les éventuels problèmes constitutionnels que pourrait notamment soulever l'intervention de la Commission européenne ou d'un commissaire européen chargé de l'euro dans les questions de budgets nationaux, a déclaré Norbert Lammert, le président du Bundestag, dans un entretien au Spiegel.
Les dirigeants de la zone euro se sont mis d'accord vendredi pour renforcer leur gouvernance économique, dans le cadre des efforts pour rétablir la confiance des investisseurs dans le bloc monétaire et pour résoudre la crise bancaire et de la dette.
(Version française Agnès Adourian)
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