Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 3

[orsoseduto]

Le uniche sub con taglio 50k € mi pare che sono quelle di bdm. Per Etruria quasi tutte taglio 1k€... Fai prestissimo ad arrivare a 150000 famiglie... Ciao.

I giornali riportano cosi:
Banca Marche 40k azionisti e 1k obbligazionisti subordinati
Banca Etruria 65k azionisti e 5k obbligazionisti subordinati

 

[apaci2]

Totalmente OT

Vedo solo adesso...

Fatemi capire qualcuno vuole fare qualcosa per far emergere il problema del BAIL-in (voglio prescindere da quale sia il fine ultimo) e qui dentro viene in qualche modo commentato negativamente... Incredibile, senza parole...

Ben vengano persone che possano in qualche modo apportare una visuale da tecnici della materia

Nemo profeta in patria!!!

 

[tigredelmercato]

il bail-in sottrae le banche alle normali procedure fallimentari impedendo che i creditori possano rivalersi sugli attivi.
E' un po' come quando l'imprenditore che sta per fallire intesta tutta la "polpa" dell'azienda in crisi ad un soggetto diverso (good bank) lasciando i creditori (od alcuni di essi) alle prese con una scatola vuota (bad bank).

Solo che se lo fa l'imprenditore è un reato.

.

 

[apaci2]

Non so se sia stato già detto

Oggi CNP ha collocato un bond sub da 750M coupon 4.5

Simile recente Generali per intenderci

 

[TheLondoner]

Non so se sia stato già detto

Oggi CNP ha collocato un bond sub da 750M coupon 4.5

Simile recente Generali per intenderci

ciao Apaci a che scadenza ? 12NC30 ? Se hai isin sono curioso di confrontarlo con CNP ASSURANCES S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(25/45)FR0011949403 e con GROUPAMA S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(24/UND.) FR0011896513.

 

[bia06]

okkio alla liquidita´

Per esperienza diretta, questa puo´ avere settimane in cui si fa fatica a venderla otc (zero MM).

caspita annunciano la call sei mesi prima !!

vista la call certa potrebbe anche salire di prezzo per scontare rendimenti alla call più bassi.... vediamo che succede

 

[apaci2]

ciao Apaci a che scadenza ? 12NC30 ? Se hai isin sono curioso di confrontarlo con CNP ASSURANCES S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(25/45)FR0011949403 e con GROUPAMA S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(24/UND.) FR0011896513.

Bella L'ondra here it is!!!


PRICED: CNP ASSURANCES EUR750M 4.5% 31.5NC11.5 HYB AT MS+360BP; LEADS
IFR
01-Dec-2015 16:52

[Status]: PRICED [Asset Type]: Investment Grade
[Pricing Date]: 01-Dec-15 [Issuer/Borrower Type]: FIG
[Issuer]: CNP Assurances [Bookrunners]: BARC/JMP/Natixis/UBS
[Issuer Long Name]: CNP ASSURANCES SA [Coupon]: 4.500 Fixed
[Size]: EUR 750M [Price]: 99.2870
[Ratings]: NR/BBB+/NR [Reoffer Price]: 99.2870
DBRS: NR [Yield]: 4.584
[Tenor/Mty]: 31.5y 10-Jun-47 [Spread]: MS+360
[Call]: 09-Jun-27 [Price Guidance]: MS+370a
[Issue Type]: Sub Notes [Listed]: Paris
CUSIP/ISIN: FR0013066388 [Denoms]: 100/100k
UOP: GCP
[Sector]: Financials-Insurance [Fees]: Undisclosed
[Law]: French
[Country]: FRANCE
[Region]: Europe
[Settledate]: 10-Dec-15
NOTES: EUR750m 31.5NC11.5 sub. Barc(struct)/JPM/Nat/UBS. Expected BBB+ by S&P.
IPTs MS+370 area, revised +360/365, final MS+360bp. Books closed approaching 2bn
(pre-rec). Came 4.584% = DBR 1 08/25 +411 (104.97%).

 

[bia06]

eccolo

1/12/15

Quando ho letto di questa nuova ho pensato anche io a confrontarla con le vecchie. Che ne pensi/pensate?


€€€ NEW ISSUE: CNP ASSURANCES € 31.5NC11.5 - IPT: MS+370area €€€ = 4.725%


Issuer: CNP Assurances
Instrument: EUR Dated Fixed to Floating Rate Subordinated Notes
Issuer Rating (IFSR): A stable (S&P)
Expected Issue Rating: [BBB+] (S&P)
Status: Ordinary Subordinated Obligations. Senior to Equity Securities, Undated Junior Subordinated Obligations, Dated Junior Subordinated Obligations, prêts participatifs granted to, and titres participatifs issued by, the Issuer
Amount: EUR Benchmark
IPT: MS+370area
Settlement Date: 10 December 2015
Scheduled Maturity Date: 10 June 2047
Issuer Call Option: First Call Date on 10 June 2027 and each quarterly interest payment date thereafter, subject to no Regulatory Deficiency and regulatory approval
Coupon Structure: Fixed rate payable annually in arrear until the First Call Date; then reset every quarter at the prevailing 3-month EURIBOR + initial margin + 100bps step-up, payable quarterly
Optional Interest Deferral: Cash cumulative and compounding, subject to dividend pusher (previous 6 months)
Mandatory Interest Deferral:Cash cumulative and compounding, upon Regulatory Deficiency
Regulatory Deficiency: The Issuer and/or the Group does not meet
applicable solvency or regulatory capital requirements, or the Relevant Supervisory Authority has determined that, in view of the financial condition of the Issuer and/or any entity of the Group, the Issuer must take specified action in relation to payments under the Notes
Arrears of Interest: Arrears of Interest may be paid in whole or in part
at any time, but all Arrears of Interest shall
become due in full the earliest of: (a) the next
Compulsory Interest Payment Date, (b) redemption of the Notes, or (c) liquidation of the Issuer
Early Redemption Rights: Redemption of the Notes in whole but not in part
at par for Taxation Reasons (only after year 10 in case of Gross-Up or Withholding Tax Event) or upon Regulatory Event, Rating Methodology Event or Clean-up event (in each case subject to regulatory approval and that any redemption prior to the fifth anniversary of the Issue Date must be funded by issuance of equivalent or better quality capital)
Exchange/Variation: In case of Regulatory or Rating Methodology Event, subject to certain conditions including the terms of the exchange or variation not being prejudicial to the interest of Noteholders
Gross up Obligation: Not applicable prior to the tenth anniversary of the Issue Date
Documentation: Stand alone
Denoms/Listing/Law: EUR 100,000 + 100,000 / Paris / French law
Use of Proceeds: General corporate purposes
Sole Structuring Advisor: Barclays
Joint Lead Managers : Barclays, J.P. Morgan, Natixis, UBS Investment Bank

ciao Apaci a che scadenza ? 12NC30 ? Se hai isin sono curioso di confrontarlo con CNP ASSURANCES S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(25/45)FR0011949403 e con GROUPAMA S.A. EO-FLR NOTES 2014(24/UND.) FR0011896513.

 

[bia06]

Ci riprovo....

Amor, Rott, qualche idea? Grazie

C´e´ un titolo di struttura simile a RZB 025 in post call? Mi piacerebbe capire con i tassi ed i prezzi attuali dove potrebbe posizionarsi in caso di mancata call.

Grazie

 

[TheLondoner]

Bella L'ondra here it is!!!


PRICED: CNP ASSURANCES EUR750M 4.5% 31.5NC11.5 HYB AT MS+360BP; LEADS
IFR
01-Dec-2015 16:52

[Status]: PRICED [Asset Type]: Investment Grade
[Pricing Date]: 01-Dec-15 [Issuer/Borrower Type]: FIG
[Issuer]: CNP Assurances [Bookrunners]: BARC/JMP/Natixis/UBS
[Issuer Long Name]: CNP ASSURANCES SA [Coupon]: 4.500 Fixed
[Size]: EUR 750M [Price]: 99.2870
[Ratings]: NR/BBB+/NR [Reoffer Price]: 99.2870
DBRS: NR [Yield]: 4.584
[Tenor/Mty]: 31.5y 10-Jun-47 [Spread]: MS+360
[Call]: 09-Jun-27 [Price Guidance]: MS+370a
[Issue Type]: Sub Notes [Listed]: Paris
CUSIP/ISIN: FR0013066388 [Denoms]: 100/100k
UOP: GCP
[Sector]: Financials-Insurance [Fees]: Undisclosed
[Law]: French
[Country]: FRANCE
[Region]: Europe
[Settledate]: 10-Dec-15
NOTES: EUR750m 31.5NC11.5 sub. Barc(struct)/JPM/Nat/UBS. Expected BBB+ by S&P.
IPTs MS+370 area, revised +360/365, final MS+360bp. Books closed approaching 2bn
(pre-rec). Came 4.584% = DBR 1 08/25 +411 (104.97%).

1/12/15

Quando ho letto di questa nuova ho pensato anche io a confrontarla con le vecchie. Che ne pensi/pensate?


€€€ NEW ISSUE: CNP ASSURANCES € 31.5NC11.5 - IPT: MS+370area €€€ = 4.725%


Issuer: CNP Assurances
Instrument: EUR Dated Fixed to Floating Rate Subordinated Notes
Issuer Rating (IFSR): A stable (S&P)
Expected Issue Rating: [BBB+] (S&P)
Status: Ordinary Subordinated Obligations. Senior to Equity Securities, Undated Junior Subordinated Obligations, Dated Junior Subordinated Obligations, prêts participatifs granted to, and titres participatifs issued by, the Issuer
Amount: EUR Benchmark
IPT: MS+370area
Settlement Date: 10 December 2015
Scheduled Maturity Date: 10 June 2047
Issuer Call Option: First Call Date on 10 June 2027 and each quarterly interest payment date thereafter, subject to no Regulatory Deficiency and regulatory approval
Coupon Structure: Fixed rate payable annually in arrear until the First Call Date; then reset every quarter at the prevailing 3-month EURIBOR + initial margin + 100bps step-up, payable quarterly
Optional Interest Deferral: Cash cumulative and compounding, subject to dividend pusher (previous 6 months)
Mandatory Interest Deferral:Cash cumulative and compounding, upon Regulatory Deficiency
Regulatory Deficiency: The Issuer and/or the Group does not meet
applicable solvency or regulatory capital requirements, or the Relevant Supervisory Authority has determined that, in view of the financial condition of the Issuer and/or any entity of the Group, the Issuer must take specified action in relation to payments under the Notes
Arrears of Interest: Arrears of Interest may be paid in whole or in part
at any time, but all Arrears of Interest shall
become due in full the earliest of: (a) the next
Compulsory Interest Payment Date, (b) redemption of the Notes, or (c) liquidation of the Issuer
Early Redemption Rights: Redemption of the Notes in whole but not in part
at par for Taxation Reasons (only after year 10 in case of Gross-Up or Withholding Tax Event) or upon Regulatory Event, Rating Methodology Event or Clean-up event (in each case subject to regulatory approval and that any redemption prior to the fifth anniversary of the Issue Date must be funded by issuance of equivalent or better quality capital)
Exchange/Variation: In case of Regulatory or Rating Methodology Event, subject to certain conditions including the terms of the exchange or variation not being prejudicial to the interest of Noteholders
Gross up Obligation: Not applicable prior to the tenth anniversary of the Issue Date
Documentation: Stand alone
Denoms/Listing/Law: EUR 100,000 + 100,000 / Paris / French law
Use of Proceeds: General corporate purposes
Sole Structuring Advisor: Barclays
Joint Lead Managers : Barclays, J.P. Morgan, Natixis, UBS Investment Bank

Grazie ad entrambi, in effetti questa emissione mi era sfuggita, chissa che pure Groupama non esca con qualcosa di simile.
Tornando al nuovo bond, un pieno investment grade , per quanto si prevedano anno di tassi bassi ancora in zona euro, data la call al 2027, sinceramente lo trovo un po' lungo. Poi a quel punto era meglio comprare in emissione il Generali 5.50%.
Invece tra i due CNP preferirei quello più breve anche se il nuovo ha un rendimento ovviamente maggiore.
Infine, inutile riaffermare che il Groupama 6,375 in area 98,5 resta uno dei misteri di questo autunno 2015.