Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 2

[giub]

quelle che costano meno ...



semplice vendita di quelle che costano di più oer acquistare quelle che costano meno ...tra qualche giorno avranno tutte un prezzo quoteranno tutte uguale rateo a parte

cioè quanto hai abbassato?

Venduti 15 k a 23 e comprati a 22,55 le 2040...con quei soldi non offri neanche una pizza al taglio fredda alla binda che ha sconvolto porchetto
Il grande russia, con 1.100k...che fa ste cose
Di la verità. lo fai così, per passatempo, tanto per spezzare la noia

 

[robinson]

dai, che se butta male,

ci ingaggeranno tutti nel cast:

"il mio primo grosso, grasso default greco"

 

[russiabond]

cioè quanto hai abbassato?

Venduti 15 k a 23 e comprati a 22,55 le 2040...con quei soldi non offri neanche una pizza al taglio fredda alla binda che ha sconvolto porchetto
Il grande russia, con 1.100k...che fa ste cose
Di la verità. lo fai così, per passatempo, tanto per spezzare la noia

...oggi cazzeggiavo...

Comunque me ne e' rimasto 1 k per ricordo della 37...

qua si e' bloccato tutto...

Adesso funzia...

 

[giub]

qua si e' bloccato tutto...

IO era andato in default!

 

[giub]

Thursday 26 January 2012 20.10 GMT

EU close to accepting new writedowns on public sector loans to Greece

IMF head Christine Lagarde calls for further sacrifice from taxpayers as negotiations continue with private sector creditors


European Union officials are preparing to concede that eurozone taxpayers may need to make bigger sacrifices on their loans to Athens or risk a string of sovereign collapses across the continent.
Under pressure from the International Monetary Fund and some EU leaders, Brussels said it may need to go further than the €30bn (£25bn) write-off that was put in place last year as part of a package of measure to save Greece from going bust – a substantial part of which came in the form of writedowns on loans from the European Central Bank (ECB).
The concession came as private sector creditors renewed talks in Athens over the €100bn due to be written off by banks and other lenders.
The head of the International Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, urged all parties to make concessions to bring an end to weeks of wrangling that has caused turmoil on international markets. Lagarde said the public sector must consider a bigger write-off following an assessment by the IMF that Greece was in a worse situation than previously thought. Its economy has been hit hard by the severe austerity measures adopted last year.
The Greek government has failed to meet several targets set by Brussels and the IMF, which arranged a €110bn bailout last year. Greece is seeking a second bailout, expected to be worth €130bn, before major loan repayments due in March.
Until this week the major banks with outstanding loans to Greece were under pressure to extend losses from 50% to nearer 70% before Brussels would consider a second bailout.
Creditors are preparing to swap their existing loans to Athens for new ones with lengthened repayment terms. The Greek government and the Institute of International Finance (IIF), which is representing 30 of Greece's major creditors, were understood to be close to a deal last week, but were unable agree an interest rate for the new packages of loans.
The two lead representatives of the banks, Charles Dallara and Jean Lemierre, met in Paris on Wednesday for talks with member banks and EU officials before flying to Athens on Thursday.
A team of eight lawyers, credit analysts and bankers from the IIF attended meetings during the day ahead of an evening meeting with Greek prime minister Lucas Papademos.
An IIF spokesman denied Dallara had returned to the negotiating table following pressure from EU leaders. Several of the banks represented by the IIF are supported by taxpayers, including Royal Bank of Scotland and Germany's Commerzbank. "I don't think anyone has been leaning on anyone in this process. There has been continual telephone conversations between the parties concerned," he said.
The ECB, which holds tens of billions in Greek debt, is reluctant to write down its holdings without greater sacrifices from private lenders.
Lagarde put pressure on Brussels and the ECB, saying it and other public creditors may need to accept losses if those taken by the private sector are not enough to bring Greece's debt burden down to a sustainable level.
In response to Lagarde, the EU's top economic official said more public money would be needed to make up a shortfall in a second bailout after a debt-swap deal is clinched. "We are preparing a package which will pave the way for a sustainable solution for Greece, and in that package, yes, on the basis of the revised debt sustainability analysis, there is likely to be some increased need of official sector funding, but not anything dramatic," said monetary affairs commissioner Olli Rehn.
Man on a mission

Charles Dallara spent two years in Greece with the US Navy in the early 1970s. Four decades later, he is a regular visitor again, representing the banks that have lent €206bn (£172bn)to an Athens government that is now near bankruptcy.
The 62-year old American, who still sails, swims and plays baseball, was once a managing director of US investment bank JPMorgan. He also held positions in the Bush and Reagan administrations and is a veteran of the sovereign debt crises of the 1980s and 90s. He helped devise the new bonds for Latin American countries that defaulted in the 1980s during his years with the US Treasury, but has acknowledged that he is finding Greece's debt crisis much harder to crack.
Eurozone finance ministers now want creditors to lower their demands. They announced that position just two days after Dallara, managing director of the Institute of International Finance since 1993, said his best offer was on the table.
Dallara, who is married with three children, has had his commitment to the task questioned since he left the Athens talks on Saturday to go to Paris for longstanding family commitments.
The New York Yankees fan and senior league baseball player has ratcheted up the pressure on the Greek government but, despite his impressive contacts book, it is unclear just how much clout Dallara wields in talks representing such a complex group of more than 450 banks, insurance companies, hedge funds and other investors.
Critics say the very diversity of that group may undermine his position and that there are other more important figures in the background.

 

[giub]

Ackermann Says Greece Solution Still ‘Open' as Debt Talks Resume





Jan. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Resolving the Greek sovereign-debt crisis is crucial to avoiding contagion in Europe, said Deutsche Bank AG Chief Executive Officer Josef Ackermann, as private bondholders met Prime Minister Lucas Papademos to seek an accord to cut the nation's borrowings.
“I'm confident that we can get our act together in Greece and avoid a major contagion, but that is still a very open question,” Ackermann told Bloomberg News in an interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “That will have a very decisive impact on what is happening in the economy.”
Ackermann chairs the Institute of International Finance, the Washington-based industry group that's leading the debt-swap talks on behalf of private bondholders. Charles Dallara, the IIF's managing director, returned to Athens today to meet with Papademos after European finance ministers demanded that bondholders take bigger losses on their Greek holdings.
Ackermann, 63, said the cost of allowing Greece to fail would stretch beyond sovereign debt to investments in the country and the collapse of its economy. “On top of that you have contagion -- Portugal is already under scrutiny, Italy, Ireland, Spain and so on,” he said in a CNBC interview.
Greece and its creditors are haggling over the terms of an accord to reduce the country's borrowings three months after private bondholders agreed to a 50 percent cut in the face value of more than 200 billion euros ($262 billion) of debt by voluntarily swapping bonds for new securities.
‘Strict Attitude'
Since then, an economic contraction that exceeded estimates has made the goal of cutting Greece's debt to 120 percent of gross domestic product by 2020 harder. An accord with private investors is tied to a second bailout for the country, which faces a 14.5 billion-euro bond payment on March 20.
The last offer from Greece's private bondholders would lead to a loss of about 69 percent on the net-present value of Greek bonds, two people with knowledge of the talks said on Jan. 23. The new 30-year bonds would carry an average coupon of about 4.25 percent, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are private.
European finance ministers meeting in Brussels signaled they would push Greece's private investors to accept bigger losses, with coupons below 3.5 percent for debt to be serviced until 2020 and below 4 percent over the 30 years of the next Greek package.
“I can understand the strict attitude creditors are taking,” Andreas Plaesier, a Hamburg-based banking analyst at M.M. Warburg, said by phone. “Greece's behavior could well lead you to believe that this isn't the last step and that other writedowns could follow. There's also the concern over whether other countries like Portugal will seek to have their debt load lightened.”
‘Willing to Negotiate'
Greek newspaper Kathimerini, without saying how it got the information, reported today that Dallara will make a proposal that the new bonds carry a weighted average coupon of 3.75 percent.
After a meeting of the creditors' steering committee on Jan. 25 in Paris, Greek bondholders said they would send a team of experts to Athens to continue negotiations with the Greek government on the debt swap, with the goal of agreeing on all outstanding legal and technical issues as soon as possible.
“At the end too much is at stake here for Europe in terms of contagion, but also I think for the global economy,” Ackermann told CNBC. “We need someone on the public sector who can really make decisions, and finally, I think we are getting closer to that. We are willing to negotiate.”
‘Tug of War'
“There are always tensions and a tug of war in these areas,” Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny told Bloomberg Television in Davos, when asked about the struggles over the swap. “The end result of all this should be strong leadership, decisiveness from a European perspective, a focus on growth and jobs, which can grow the economies of Europe and can have the European market achieve the full potential of the single market.”
Dallara said on Jan. 24 that all parties, public and private, should contribute to cutting Greece's borrowings. Private investors hold only about 60 percent of Greece's 350 billion euros of debt, he said. Christine Lagarde, a former French finance minister who is the IMF's managing director, said that European governments and other public holders of Greek debt may have to increase support if private creditors don't go far enough.
Michael Meister, the deputy floor leader for German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and the party's ranking finance spokesman, rejected suggestions that the European Central Bank take losses on its Greek debt holdings. He spoke in a Jan. 25 interview.
‘Every Institution'
While the ECB faces pressure to join private-sector investors in accepting losses on Greek debt, the central bank sees any participation as risking damaging confidence in the institution, two people familiar with the Governing Council's stance said. The debt was acquired for monetary policy purposes and the ECB is firmly opposed to any restructuring, they said on condition of anonymity because the matter is confidential.
“If we extinguish the fire in Greece with a good solution, everybody, and I'm not mentioning any names here, but every institution should contribute to solving that problem, everybody who has a stake in it,” Ackermann said.
ECB President Mario Draghi said on Jan. 19 that the ECB is “not party” to discussions between the Greek government and the private sector. An ECB spokesman declined to comment.
The creditors' steering committee negotiating the debt swap includes representatives from banks and insurers with the largest holdings of Greek government bonds, including National Bank of Greece SA, BNP Paribas, Commerzbank AG , Deutsche Bank AG, Intesa Sanpaolo SpA , ING Groep NV, Allianz SE and Axa SA.

 

[giub]

ECB role under scrutiny as Greek debt talks resume

ATHENS | Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:32pm EST

(Reuters) - Greece's tortuous negotiations over a debt swap with private creditors honed in on Thursday on demands that the European Central Bank contribute to a deal to bring Athens' messy finances back on track.
Talks between Athens, which needs a deal quickly to avert a chaotic default when a major bond redemption comes due in March, and representatives for private creditors resume Thursday evening with the aim of sealing an agreement within a few days.
After weeks of wrangling over the coupon, or interest rate, Greece must pay on new bonds it will swap for existing debt, attention has shifted to whether the ECB and other public creditors will follow private bondholders in swallowing losses.
A day after International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde said the ECB may need to accept losses on its Greek holdings, the European Union's top economic official also warned more public money will be needed to make up a shortfall in the country's second bailout.
EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn told Reuters "there is likely to be some increased need of official sector funding, but not anything dramatic." It was the first time a top EU official had confirmed more public money than a 130 billion euro package would be required to rescue Greece.
Private bondholders want others who bought bonds, and in particular the ECB which is Athens' single biggest creditor, to take part in the swap -- known as the Private Sector Involvement -- that will make them write down the value of their holdings by 50 percent nominally, with real losses that are far higher.
"It would be outrageous if the ECB doesn't take part in the PSI as keeping their Greek bonds to maturity would allow them to make a profit, while everybody else is taking 70 percent (losses) or even more," one source close to the talks said.
The ECB had ruled out taking voluntary losses on its Greek bond holdings but is now debating how it would handle any forced losses and whether to explore legal options to avoid such a hit, central bank sources told Reuters on Wednesday.
The ECB, which owns roughly 40 billion euros worth of Greek bonds, is no closer to agreeing on whether or not it will take losses on the Greek bonds it owns after a late night Wednesday meeting, euro zone central bank sources told Reuters.
Either way, at the very latest a debt deal must be clinched a month before 14.5 billion euros of bond redemptions fall due on March 20, the source said, i.e., in just over three weeks.
If a deal is not reached by then, Greece could sink into an uncontrolled default that would trigger a banking crisis spreading contagion through the euro zone, though the ECB's creation of nearly half a trillion euros of three-year money for the banks in December has tempered that fear.
High debtor Italy saw its government bond yields and the cost of insuring against a default fall on Thursday, helped by solid demand for short-term debt at an auction.
COUPON STUMBLE
So far the interest rate, or coupon, on the new bonds had been the main stumbling block in the negotiations.
On Monday, euro zone ministers rejected the creditors' offer of a 4 percent coupon on new bonds after Greece and its EU/IMF lenders held out for a 3.5 percent interest rate. They want to ensure the country's debt falls to a target of 120 percent of GDP by 2020, from around 160 percent now.
A second source familiar with the negotiations said the "coupon is parked for current time until we can get closer on detail of the overall package". Asked if that would include the ECB, the source said: "We would expect it to, still to be determined though."
Greek bankers and government officials said they had not heard of any new proposal from creditors, after local media reported they were willing to improve their "final offer" of a 4 percent interest rate on the new bonds to about 3.75 percent.
One Greek daily, Kerdos, said participation of public sector creditors including the ECB in the swap deal was a pre-condition for that offer.
"Until last week, we knew that the steering committee was authorized to concede up to 3.8 percent for the average coupon," one senior Greek banker told Reuters.
"But things are once again up in the air. You have to deal with politicians and 15 different governments asking for different things."
Charles Dallara, chief of the Institute of International Finance that leads negotiations on behalf of private creditors, is due to meet Prime Minister Lucas Papademos at 1800 GMT. Dallara left Athens over the weekend after the last round of talks proved inconclusive.
The IIF has said Thursday's discussions will be "informal" and aim to sort out legal and technical issues quickly. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the debt swap talks were on a "good path".
Senior EU, IMF and ECB officials are holding talks with the Greek government in parallel with the debt swap talks, to flesh out a new 130-billion euro bailout for Greece. They have warned they need the debt swap to cut Greece's debt substantially in order to go ahead with the new loans.
Talks with the "troika" inspectors on the new bailout program are expected to go well into next week.
Germany does not expect the troika of foreign lenders to deliver a report on Greece's progress before a summit of European Union leaders on Monday, a senior German official said on Thursday, adding that this meant that Greece would not play a major role at the EU leaders summit.
Greece has made little progress on reforms as it stumbles through its worst post-World War II economic crisis. The task facing the country has been made harder with anger against austerity measures and squabbling politicians running high.
A poll on Thursday showed Greece's conservatives had widened their lead over socialist coalition partners ahead of elections expected in April, but they would not win an absolute majority if elections were held now.

 

[ferdo]

Se invece che all in avessi fatto fifty fifty con le BA-CA ... Però nons aresti te

avesse tenuto le Groupama che aveva, ora sarebbe fuori dal guano totalmente

 

[giub]

Domani è continuare i negoziati sul PSI + - concordato in anticipo con tasso di interesse medio ponderato tra il 3,6% e 3,75% - L'hedge fund richiedono il coinvolgimento della BCE - cercare di debito compromessa dal 75-85000000000


26/01/12 - 22:22 (Upd8) Domani Venerdì continuerà a discutere sul progetto di ristrutturazione del debito greco (PSI +) come riportato in un comunicato della IIF, subito dopo la riunione del cap. Dallara con il Primo Ministro L. Papademos.
In un comunicato la IIF dice che il progresso nei negoziati, attualmente concentrato su questioni giuridiche e tecniche.
Secondo le ultime notizie, il tasso dovrebbe chiudersi vicinanze del 3,75%, mentre tutte le normali condizioni di chiusura processo indicazione dovrebbe esistere anche oggi.

In precedenza bankingnews.gr ha detto:
Rehn: E 'l'accordo per il PSI + - Nuova proposta presenta la IIF - Alle 20:00 incontro Dallara - Papademos - Il tasso bancario pari al 3,5% - 3,6%, mentre gli hedge fund richiedono il coinvolgimento della BCE - cercare di debito ridotta 75 -85.000 milioni

Grecia e creditori sono vicini a un accordo su un piano di ristrutturazione del debito greco (PSI +) conferma il commissario economia dell'UE, Olli Rehn. La nuova nomina del Primo Ministro L. Papademos con cap. Dallara della IIF, finalizzato al raggiungimento di un accordo definitivo entro i prossimi 2-3 giorni è prevista per le 20:00 GMT.
La Dallara arriva ad Atene oggi con maggiore team di tecnici al fine di finalizzare l'accordo il più presto possibile.
Il discorso nuovo da Rehn dice, e ha già individuato il capo del FMI, C. Lagarde, e cioè che il settore formale potrebbe dover contribuire di più in Grecia, che non è caratteristico sviluppo drammatico ....
La ristrutturazione del debito greco con il coinvolgimento del privato + PSI procederà e possono essere concordati entro i prossimi 2-3 giorni.
Non perché si precipitò al Dallara e la IIF BNP Paribas rappresentanti dei singoli e delle banche nei negoziati ha detto Giovedi, ma soprattutto perché il + PSI è un parametro chiave per l'approvazione del nuovo accordo di prestito.
Una volta che la Germania che coordina e definisce gli sviluppi non hanno un altro piano, che c'è un piano B, per sostituire il PSI + processo continuerà.
Sulla base delle informazioni contenute nel IIF Dallara torna ad Atene e sul tavolo una nuova proposta che è probabilmente più vicino agli obiettivi principali della troika. Allo stesso tempo, da parte di BNP Paribas ha sottolineato che la proposta di trasmettere è l'ultimo e raggiunto i limiti delle concessioni.
La nuova proposta include secondo alcune fonti, tasso bancario pari al 3,5% al ​​3,6% dal 4,2% medio ponderato sul tavolo.
Alcune fonti riferiscono ad un tasso di interesse medio ponderato del 3,8%, ma la nuova proposta dovrebbe includere tasso inferiore al 4%.
La Germania non poteva accettare una nuova proposta che converge a proprie posizioni.
Ma mentre il tasso di interesse è un passo importante, almeno secondo quanto è stato detto dalle fonti, questione chiave è la partecipazione del settore pubblico in + PSI.
Che la partecipazione della BCE e delle banche centrali e quelli esclusi dal processo.
I fondi hedge hanno impostato come un prerequisito e che la BCE dovrebbe soffrire taglio di capelli.
L'hedge fund saranno spina in trattative con alcuni di loro intenzione di andare in Grecia in tribunale per violazione di pagamento delle obbligazioni.

Il ruolo fondamentale delle banche centrali e soprattutto la BCE

Le obbligazioni del governo greco di cui la BCE è compresa tra 48 e 49,8 miliardi di euro.
Sulla base delle stime principalmente il costo medio ponderato di tali importi titoli a 66 a 70 punti base.
Se i legami orso taglio della BCE del 50% è evidente che il costo sarebbe di circa il 20% o cumulativamente con la perdita di gettito dovuta alla differenza di circa il 30% coupon.
Se la BCE ha comportato la perdita potenziale sarà tra i 10-14000000000 di euro di obbligazioni greche.
A seconda greci e obbligazioni detenute dalle banche centrali nazionali circa 8 € 10000000000 potrebbe subire taglio di capelli.
Tra loro e la circa 2,5-2600000000 debito detenuti e del consiglio superiore.
Banche centrali nazionali potrebbero subire taglio di capelli 4 miliardi e la Banca di Grecia oltre 1 miliardo.
La questione chiave per la BCE terrà dal 48-49800000000 debito greco è che se si portano molti danni, rispettivamente, e altre banche centrali nazionali dovrebbero essere aumenti di capitale di grandi dimensioni.
Ad es. Se la BCE ha partecipato a PSI + si troveranno ad affrontare problemi di capitale per un importo di danno subito.
Le opzioni disponibili sono 3
1) La BCE non partecipare al taglio del debito greco. Questo sviluppo, tuttavia sarebbe sbagliato la Grecia con eccezioni non supportato, il debito resterà a livelli eccezionali e ingestibile.
2) La BCE è coinvolta o la prima fase e seconda fase del + PSI, e scrive una grande perdita per i fondi che direttamente sostituita da una grande e una corrispondente perdita di ATA.
3) La BCE non subire la perdita del taglio di capelli e problemi di capitale faccia trasferire i titoli greci in EFSF che successivamente compromessa obbligazioni l'ammontare del taglio di capelli.

Il beneficio totale

Il PSI + funziona come un sistema esorbitanti e può essere caratterizzato volontaria, ma un profondo processo obbligatorio.
Sulla base di progetti esistenti tutte le indicazioni sono che la partecipazione sarà alta dal settore privato. Circa il 60% è di valore fino a € 50000000000.
Se si include la BCE e le banche centrali nazionali mostrano un beneficio aggiuntivo di 30 miliardi di euro.
Quindi raccogliere i 80 miliardi - o qualcosa del genere tra i 75 e 85 miliardi di dollari - e in questo caso non può avere bisogno di attivare il CAC che il meccanismo di clausole di azione collettiva che richiedono gli obbligazionisti di sopportare taglio di capelli.
Tuttavia, sia la BCE e le banche centrali nazionali richiederà aumenti di capitale significativo per far fronte alle perdite che subiranno se partecipare.
Ma gli hedge fund con 14-15000000000 l'esposizione al debito greco hanno tutte le ragioni di sabotare il processo e lo faranno.

Banche: Perdite un taglio del 50% - 60% (80%) in obbligazioni
----------------------------
quindi se si accettano le condizioni della Germania, la Germania non accetterà che gli altri accettino le sue condizioni?

 

[giub]

Commerzbank AG : Clean Greek Debt Default To Remove Uncertainty-Commerzbank


ZURICH -(Dow Jones)- A "clean default structure" would be a sensible solution to the Greek debt problem as uncertainty is created if public debt holders are treated differently to private ones, Markus Beumer, head of corporate banking at Commerzbank AG, said Thursday.
The present situation harbors the risk of contagion for other indebted euro-zone nations and makes it more difficult for them to raise new debt, Beumer said at a presentation Thursday.
"If the public budgetary authorities don't cooperate, then a cut of 70% makes no sense," he said.
Still, "what happens with Greece is actually not that relevant any more," Beumer added.