Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 2 (17 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione tommy271
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
giub
New Membro
ah, questa proprio no, ci mancherebbe che adesso Venizelos decide anche presso quale banca debbo tenere i miei titoli
. E' del tutto inverosimile. Al limite possono averti detto che i titoli ricevuti non saranno negoziabili sui mercati ai quali hai accesso (cioè magari saranno quotati solo ad Atene o addirittura scambiabili solo OTC). Ma tu il tuo dossier titoli lo tieni dove vuoi.
chiccodj
Nuovo forumer
cmq , vorrei dire come sempre, la non chiarezza e la insicurezza che creano verso il consumatore , e' l esempio di come banche e istituzioni politiche siano sempre su altri pianeti , xche scrivere tutto e il contrario di tutto sui bond greci e' due anni che ci prendono x il c... , in ogni caso io mi unirei e farei una causa alla comunità europea alla banca che vi ha fatto comprare i bond che sono in valuta europea ! ma solo per il fatto della nom chiarezza , io lunedì anche se nn servirà a nulla, in quanto organo incapace inutile e al solo servizio della speculazione truffatrice delle banche, faccio una raccomandata mandando mail e schema spiegazione avuto dopo le ore 18 e 30 da FINECO a mercati chiusi , quindi come se fosse lunedì dove non si capisce NULLA ! che vergogna
stordits
Forumer attivo
scusami mi dai link esatto di questa news
o la spari sul forum in inglese (ho provato a cercarla su internet ma non ci sono riuscito)
in questi casi ogni piccola sfumature in inglese e' importante e molto spesso google translator non la coglie
grazie ciao
o la spari sul forum in inglese (ho provato a cercarla su internet ma non ci sono riuscito)
in questi casi ogni piccola sfumature in inglese e' importante e molto spesso google translator non la coglie
grazie ciao
robinson
Forumer storico
silenzio assenso
secondo me quello che ad ora è la cosa più importante da fare,
prima del suono della campanella,
è che il retail si faccia sentire FORTE e CHIARO.
Ahimè, intendo soprattutto il RETAIL TEDESCO, che è quello che più può impensierire la Merkel.
Sappiamo tutti infatti che queste sono scelte politiche prima di tutto, e la merkel è nella stanza di comando;
sappiamo anche che la merkel è molto ondivaga; muta parere molto spesso.
Ora una forte pressione popolare potrebbe chissà magari farle cambiare idea prima della scadenza.
Un po' come successe con il governo Berlusconi quando dovendo fare la manovra, un giorno metteva sotto il mirino una categoria... poi dopo le forti contestazioni spostava il mirino da un' altra parte e così via.
E un po' come per i tassisti oggi.
Se invece non ci sarà una reazione forte e decisa, di forte impatto mediatico (e i politici si sà ci tengono al loro impatto mediatico; anche Monti) ciò potrebbe essere preso come un segno di resa, di arrendevolezza; e sarà più facile lasciare che la mannaia cada sul collo del retail.
Io butterei l' occhio su ciò che avviene a livello di retail tedesco, pertanto: loro non fanno manifestazioni di piazza, ma vediamo se accetteranno di farsi spolpare in maniera silenziosa.
secondo me quello che ad ora è la cosa più importante da fare,
prima del suono della campanella,
è che il retail si faccia sentire FORTE e CHIARO.
Ahimè, intendo soprattutto il RETAIL TEDESCO, che è quello che più può impensierire la Merkel.
Sappiamo tutti infatti che queste sono scelte politiche prima di tutto, e la merkel è nella stanza di comando;
sappiamo anche che la merkel è molto ondivaga; muta parere molto spesso.
Ora una forte pressione popolare potrebbe chissà magari farle cambiare idea prima della scadenza.
Un po' come successe con il governo Berlusconi quando dovendo fare la manovra, un giorno metteva sotto il mirino una categoria... poi dopo le forti contestazioni spostava il mirino da un' altra parte e così via.
E un po' come per i tassisti oggi.
Se invece non ci sarà una reazione forte e decisa, di forte impatto mediatico (e i politici si sà ci tengono al loro impatto mediatico; anche Monti) ciò potrebbe essere preso come un segno di resa, di arrendevolezza; e sarà più facile lasciare che la mannaia cada sul collo del retail.
Io butterei l' occhio su ciò che avviene a livello di retail tedesco, pertanto: loro non fanno manifestazioni di piazza, ma vediamo se accetteranno di farsi spolpare in maniera silenziosa.
Ultima modifica:
discipline
Forumer storico
La notizia è quella con cui apre il sito bankingnews.gr è proprio la prima sulla home. Il problema vero è cogliere le sfumature in greco passando per traduzione in inglese di google.
gipa69
collegio dei patafisici
Si ha paura che non si arrivi a 75%....
March 2, 2012, 5:00 pm
Greek Official Warns Debt Holdouts
By LANDON THOMAS JR.MADRID — For the hedge funds who are looking to sue Greece instead of taking a 75 percent loss on their bonds, the head of Greece’s debt management agency has some blunt advice: Think twice before racking up those big legal bills.
“There is just no money for holdouts,” said Petros Christodoulou, who has been at the forefront of Greece’s debt restructuring process since it began last summer. “We are prepared for legal challenges but the risk here is that people are trying to be too smart.”
On Thursday, investors holding 177 billion euros worth of local law bonds must inform Greece whether they want to swap their old ones for new ones and take a 75 percent loss in the process.
Analysts now believe that the deal will get done as more than 65 percent of holders — Greek banks and pension funds as well as large European banks — are likely to switch their old bonds for a package of new English law Greek bonds and securities issued by Europe’s rescue fund.
And, as Greece and its financial backers have insisted on a near universal participation, it is expected that Greece will deploy its new collective action clauses to compel those who decline the offer to take a loss as well.
Mr. Christodoulou declined to comment on whether the clause would be activated but he did underline that the consequences of a failed deal are dire not just for Greece but for bondholders too.
The alternative, he said, “is too dire to contemplate.” He added that if this deal failed, the next offer bond holders would get would be far inferior, lacking the incentives that the current offer has.
Mr. Christodoulou said that it was too early to get a sense of what the participation rate would be but that he said he was confident that at the end of the day enough investors would agree to the deal to reach the target.
“We are targetting near universal participation,” he said. “We have spent a lot of time on this — now we are ready to implement it.
Nevertheless numerous hedge funds have been accumulating a range of Greek bonds that are governed by foreign law in the hopes of of making a legal challenge. These securities range from bonds issued by Greece’s near bankrupt railway firm to so-called pharma bonds — bonds issued by the Greek government and paid to cash-starved Greek pharmaceutical companies in place of cash
Law firms like Bingham McCutchen have been soliciting hedge funds, asking that they form a consortium to challenge Greece by accumulating enough of these types of bonds so that they might be able to block the deal and perhaps receive near full payment from the Greek government.
The rationale being that Greece would rather pay off these investors as opposed to having to fight them in court.
But Mr. Christodoulou sees little chance of this happening.
“We feel we need to honor the long term investors who will participate in the deal,” he said. “It is not in anyone’s interest to see them take a 70 percent haircut while others get par.”
So far, there is no sign that large vulture funds like Elliott Management are willing to take on the ample resources of the European Union by challenging Greece in court. Lawyers and investors say that until now the types of hedge funds that have been taking up positions are small and lack the resources for a drawn out legal battle.
Nevertheless, prospective litigants may be heartened by a recent decision by the United States District Court in Manhattan that found in favor of a fund controlled by Elliott, NML Capital.
NML has for a long time been pursuing Argentina, which defaulted on $100 billion worth of debt in 2002, in court arguing that core a bond contract principal that states that all investors receive equal treatment was violated when the country cut a deal with some investors who were willing to take a haircut while Elliott held out.
In the ruling, dated Feb. 23, Judge Thomas Griesa ordered that when Argentina makes interest payments to investors that participated in previous debt restructuring deals, the country shall “concurrently or in advance make a ratable payment to NML.”
While investors have not yet been able to extract large sums of money from Argentina, legal experts say that ruling is certain to be closely studied by those who that are thinking of pursuing a similar case against Greece.
March 2, 2012, 5:00 pm
Greek Official Warns Debt Holdouts
By LANDON THOMAS JR.MADRID — For the hedge funds who are looking to sue Greece instead of taking a 75 percent loss on their bonds, the head of Greece’s debt management agency has some blunt advice: Think twice before racking up those big legal bills.
“There is just no money for holdouts,” said Petros Christodoulou, who has been at the forefront of Greece’s debt restructuring process since it began last summer. “We are prepared for legal challenges but the risk here is that people are trying to be too smart.”
On Thursday, investors holding 177 billion euros worth of local law bonds must inform Greece whether they want to swap their old ones for new ones and take a 75 percent loss in the process.
Analysts now believe that the deal will get done as more than 65 percent of holders — Greek banks and pension funds as well as large European banks — are likely to switch their old bonds for a package of new English law Greek bonds and securities issued by Europe’s rescue fund.
And, as Greece and its financial backers have insisted on a near universal participation, it is expected that Greece will deploy its new collective action clauses to compel those who decline the offer to take a loss as well.
Mr. Christodoulou declined to comment on whether the clause would be activated but he did underline that the consequences of a failed deal are dire not just for Greece but for bondholders too.
The alternative, he said, “is too dire to contemplate.” He added that if this deal failed, the next offer bond holders would get would be far inferior, lacking the incentives that the current offer has.
Mr. Christodoulou said that it was too early to get a sense of what the participation rate would be but that he said he was confident that at the end of the day enough investors would agree to the deal to reach the target.
“We are targetting near universal participation,” he said. “We have spent a lot of time on this — now we are ready to implement it.
Nevertheless numerous hedge funds have been accumulating a range of Greek bonds that are governed by foreign law in the hopes of of making a legal challenge. These securities range from bonds issued by Greece’s near bankrupt railway firm to so-called pharma bonds — bonds issued by the Greek government and paid to cash-starved Greek pharmaceutical companies in place of cash
Law firms like Bingham McCutchen have been soliciting hedge funds, asking that they form a consortium to challenge Greece by accumulating enough of these types of bonds so that they might be able to block the deal and perhaps receive near full payment from the Greek government.
The rationale being that Greece would rather pay off these investors as opposed to having to fight them in court.
But Mr. Christodoulou sees little chance of this happening.
“We feel we need to honor the long term investors who will participate in the deal,” he said. “It is not in anyone’s interest to see them take a 70 percent haircut while others get par.”
So far, there is no sign that large vulture funds like Elliott Management are willing to take on the ample resources of the European Union by challenging Greece in court. Lawyers and investors say that until now the types of hedge funds that have been taking up positions are small and lack the resources for a drawn out legal battle.
Nevertheless, prospective litigants may be heartened by a recent decision by the United States District Court in Manhattan that found in favor of a fund controlled by Elliott, NML Capital.
NML has for a long time been pursuing Argentina, which defaulted on $100 billion worth of debt in 2002, in court arguing that core a bond contract principal that states that all investors receive equal treatment was violated when the country cut a deal with some investors who were willing to take a haircut while Elliott held out.
In the ruling, dated Feb. 23, Judge Thomas Griesa ordered that when Argentina makes interest payments to investors that participated in previous debt restructuring deals, the country shall “concurrently or in advance make a ratable payment to NML.”
While investors have not yet been able to extract large sums of money from Argentina, legal experts say that ruling is certain to be closely studied by those who that are thinking of pursuing a similar case against Greece.
discipline
Forumer storico
What will happen on 8-9 March? Between 68% and 72% expected participation in the PSI + - If you do not achieve the 75% are canceled and the CACs and the CDS triggers - H Greece will be the new Uruguay or Argentina The Northern Rock;
normally be paid their bonds at par value would not suffer haircut. This applies to individuals, but institutional and individuals.
03/03/12 - 07:09
03/03/12 - 7:09 
On Thursday March 8 and 9 hours Central European PSI + ends in the process of voluntary participation in the Greek debt rescheduling.
If no extension will be determined on 7 March and 4 hours to central Europe, most likely possibility - dawn Friday, March 9 will become known involvement of individuals in the Greek debt rescheduling.
Based on preliminary information from well informed sources, the 75% target may be missed and participation to move between 68% and 72%.So far participation is de minimis, but really very little participation will obviously climax until 8 March the new week.
If this information is confirmed and until March 8 lot can happen in PSI + will be canceled. Greece will enable the CACs it attracts more than 66.66% and will be paid as the ISDA CDS will certify Credit Event.
(Given that the process of PSI + is crucial for the rescue of Greece may be under pressure at the last minute to bondholders to participate or to prolong the process.)
The Troika especially Germany have undertaken to complete the largest project ever undertaken to rule the planet, to restructure the debt voluntarily.
Based on the objectives of the PSI + contribution limit is 90%.
That 90% of capital invested in Greek bonds to participate voluntarily.
This objective is not likely.
So predicted from Greece and the Troika to adopt participation rate range which was identified in 75% to 90% in consultation with creditors.
If that is the participation reaches 75% of the target of 206 billion and the highest PSI + procedure will be considered valid, and we'll be done voluntarily. normally be paid their bonds at par value would not suffer haircut. This applies to individuals, but institutional and individuals.
But if attendance is below 75% then the Greek government will be forced to cancel the process if the contribution is more than 66.66%, then Greece would trigger the CACs that will force everyone to undergo haircut.
In this case there will be a CDS trigger ie payment of CDS as the ISDA «voluntarily" will meet to certify a credit event.
Based on information even though based on very small sample of participation and some projections and information from the Club of participants that participation will move between 68% and 72% and maybe this is a good script.
In such a case it is clear that the process of PSI + will be canceled and not achieved the 75% that will determine whether the process is valid or not.
In a special report of the BNP Paribas which is both the director of PSI + individuals in states that are more likely to activate the CACs and in this case the procedure becomes mandatory canceled the mandatory PSI + and all will participate.
The idea is simple Greece will be the new Uruguay where there was no voluntary restructuring trigger CDS CDS ie without payment or Greece will be the next Argentina, Anglo Irise Bank or Northern Rock where he was bankrupt and paid the CDS;
It should be noted that the impact of trigger CDS in Greece but also in the process of mandatory PSI + will not be large, the market has the potential to include.
What will happen to individuals
Individuals have no reason to participate. They have reason to join the process. (WTF???, ndr)
Already banks have their entry forms included the following questions.
1) Will you join the PSI +
2) A vote in favor of cacs and participation in the process of PSI +
3) A vote against cacs and participation in the PSI +
4) To know that hold Greek bonds without count in the process that the State of exchange when mobilized CACs
5) You refuse to participate in the process of PSI +.
The procedures
With the adviser Lazard and managers completing the Deutsche bank and HSBC and the trustees of Wilmington Trust, started and completed the bid invitation on March 8 but with the prospect of expansion of the PSI + Greek debt rescheduling with the involvement of individuals.
Based on the process until March 7 at 4 Central Europe the whole process can be revoked.
The Greek state could revoke the whole process of PSI + to 7 March.
On March 8 will complete the bid process unless there is an extension and this will depend on participation.
Along directly to the Greek government granted 30 billion loan as a convention facility to fund part of fungible securities.
On 12 March has been designated the settlement date of eligible securities.
Between 27 and 29 March for a meeting of holders - bondholders Greek non-euro bonds issued.
On April 11 will be the settlement of foreign securities.
In the new bonds will be issued nominal value to 70 billion euro will bear different interest rates based on their liktotita.
Between 2013 and 2015 the rate of 2% between 2016 and 2020 to 3% in 2021 to 3.65% in 2022 and then to 4.30%.
It should be noted that the Greek government declares that those who participate in the PSI + will be paid all accrued interest as opposed to those who did not participate indicated that they will not receive accrued interest.
Obviously this distinction is important as the accrued interest will be payable at maturity of each bond, or because of collective action clauses of CACs process from voluntary to mandatory and de facto compulsory everyone involved?
Note that the CACs to be activated to elicit the required 2/3 of the overall objective - capital.
Furthermore, Greece is complete when a call or reserve bids may be entered into voluntary transactions additional management obligations or as individual titles although there was great interest categories or bondholders.
This may be a window for the bonds nominal value 56.5 billion held by the ECB and national central banks amounting to 38-40 billion market value. Θα πρέπει να σημειωθεί ότι τα ομόλογα ονομαστικής αξίας 56,5 δις ευρώ που κατείχαν
It should be noted that the bonds with a nominal value of 56.5 billion held by national central banks and the ECB have spent longer in control of the Greek public.
Peter Leotsakos
BankingNews.gr | Online ????????? ????????? 
tommy271
Forumer storico
Si sarebbe semplice, dato che la Grecia si riserva di modificare lo PSI+.
Bisogna però vedere come si svolgerà l'operazione: cioè se i non volontari saranno CACcati subito o in un secondo momento.
Il tutto rimane però una forzatura che esula la volontarietà dell'operazione.
discipline
Forumer storico
Non mi sorprende questo fine settimana di pressione per stringere al massimo le maglie della rete.. sono ore cruciali su tutti i fronti..
- Stato