bosmeld
Forumer storico
sta li.
denaro 32,5 lettera 34
cmq su oevgg la tendenza sembra essere rialzista.
quando e se supererà i 40 ne riparleremo
Ultima modifica:
Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione negusneg
- Data di Inizio
-
- Tags
- additional tier 1 bail in basilea 3 coco bonds crd iv genussscheine grandfathering hybrid bond loss absorption lower tier 2 make whole amount matusalem bond obbligazioni irredimibili obbligazioni perpetue obbligazioni subordinate perpetual bond preference shares restricted tier 1 tier 1 upper tier 2
- Stato
sta li.
denaro 32,5 lettera 34
cmq su oevgg la tendenza sembra essere rialzista.
quando e se supererà i 40 ne riparleremo
ferdo
Utente Senior
se l'Eu3m tra 6 anni è ancora all'1% stiamo freschi
pier_pat
Mountaineering
sbaglierò ma il ragionamento di carlo non fa una grinza: euribor all'1% o al 4% è lo stesso se confrontiamo due p agganciati a eur. la differenza tra i due bond la fa lo spread, appunto l'elemento che carlo voleva mettere in evidenza.
e in effetti, una delle prime lezioni che ho imparato qui (non sempre messa in pratica, ma come dice la mia firma, non mi sono mai applicato abbastanza...
) è puntare su p che avessero anche post call ricchi...'notte!
ferdo
Utente Senior
sbaglierò ma il ragionamento di carlo non fa una grinza: euribor all'1% o al 4% è lo stesso se confrontiamo due p agganciati a eur. la differenza tra i due bond la fa lo spread, appunto l'elemento che carlo voleva mettere in evidenza.
e in effetti, una delle prime lezioni che ho imparato qui (non sempre messa in pratica, ma come dice la mia firma, non mi sono mai applicato abbastanza...
'notte!
no, perdonami, se ci fosse la coesistenza degli eventi ti darei ragione, ma qui stiamo confrontando una UBI che oggi ha quello spread e che dubito che arrivi al 2017, con un altro bond che sarà floating nel 2017 (se non viene callato).
Anzi ora che mi ci fai pensare c'è una perpetual di DZ Bank che quota sui 70 con Euribor+2,5% (se ricordo bene), pure in post call.
Come pure la Bawag Eu3m+4,70% che sta intorno a 70.
Cmq non stiamo neppure guardando i CDS.
Tra l'altro immaginiamo di essere nel 2017 e c'è l'UBI a 96 con CY del 7,2% e la BPVN a 60 con CY del 5,4%.
Tu cosa compri?
Quella che ti rende di più come cash yield o quella che potrebbe essere callata ogni trimestre dandoti maggiore guadagno in conto capitale?
Omero
Forumer storico
sbaglierò ma il ragionamento di carlo non fa una grinza: euribor all'1% o al 4% è lo stesso se confrontiamo due p agganciati a eur. la differenza tra i due bond la fa lo spread, appunto l'elemento che carlo voleva mettere in evidenza.
e in effetti, una delle prime lezioni che ho imparato qui (non sempre messa in pratica, ma come dice la mia firma, non mi sono mai applicato abbastanza...
'notte!
Il ragionamento di Carlo è perfetto per i cassettisti.
Io evito di acquistare sopra 70 qualsiasi perpetua a meno che il post call non sia invariato o come ha detto giustamente Carlo sia bello ricco.
siccome ho iniziato ad acquistare perpetue a fine 2010 (era finita la cuccagna purtroppo) nella scelta considero sempre che la call non venga esercitata, in fondo se devo metterle nel cassetto se le richiamano mi rovinano il cassetto.
Quindi io consiglio a tutti i neofiti delle perpetue di valutare i titoli nell'ottica di una cal non esercitata in modo analogo a come ha spiegato Carlo, mi sembra l'unico modo di evitare bruttissime sorprese nel lungo termine (5-10 anni).
Come ha sugerito anche il Negus per il lungo termine bisogna tenere presente che ci sono due opzioni con tutta la liquidità che è stata e d è messa in circolazione:
- iper inflazione (quindi i post call saranno ricchi ma il mnominale bruciato e maggiori rischi di dafault, insomma uno scenario pessimo)
- moratoria del debito (altro scenari pessimo)
d'altronde il denaro è una merce e ora come ora ve ne è un eccesso di offerta che porta i tassi i alto, con tutti i problemi e vantaggi connessi.
Scusate le osservazioni un pò OT
Cat XL
Shizuka Minamoto
Good morning
Mi potresti consigliare un paio di LT2?
E' un segmento che non seguo generalmente, tranne che le HSH.
Grazie
Vet
Forumer storico
mi intrometto ...c'è quella del banco cedola 6% a 92-93....che sicuramente è fra quelle più sottostimate ...a mio avviso
Zorba
Bos 4 Mod
BOI si prepara a lanciare un'offerta di scambio (con azioni) sulle sue Perpetue. Da seguire.
*.*.*
Bank of Ireland hopes to raise €100m in equity plan
By Laura Noonan
Tuesday January 11 2011
BANK of Ireland is preparing to launch a limited debt-for-equity swap before the end of the month but could make as little as €100m from the deal, the Irish Independent has learned.
The news comes after newswire Bloomberg yesterday reported that Bank of Ireland (BoI) would offer to exchange some of its riskiest debt instruments for shares in the bank.
The proceeds of the deal will contribute towards BoI's goal of raising €2.2bn in capital by the end of February, to meet new regulatory targets and avoid falling into majority state control.
The latest debt offer, which has not yet been finalised by Bank of Ireland, is understood to have been triggered by recent expressions of interest from holders of the bank's so-called subordinate debt.
"The bank may target some of its perpetual undated bonds, where it has €600m to €700m outstanding, as part of a debt-for-equity swap," Davy's analyst Stephen Lyons said.
Some reports yesterday said the debt-for-equity swap could generate as much as €200m for BoI, but sources last night suggested the figure would be close to €100m.
Many debt holders are prohibited from holding equity by their own internal guidelines, so the appeal of a debt-for-equity swap is limited by definition.
Those who take up the deal will also have to be convinced that there is value in BoI's equity -- even though shareholders face heavy dilution as the bank battles to raise its €2.2bn.
The bank has already raised €700m of the cash without hurting shareholders, but is likely to offer new stock to raise much of the remaining €1.5bn.
Reports at the weekend claimed BoI was in talks with Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about buying some of the new shares.
Contacts with several other investment groupings are also taking place with a view to executing an organised sale of stock, or private placement.
It is understood, however, that the bank is not actively engaged in talks with investors from China.
As well as the private placement, the bank will also do a rights issue, where new stock is offered to existing shareholders.
Both of these share offers will have to be approved by an extraordinary general meeting of BoI shareholders -- sources said no such meeting would be required for the debt-for-equity swap because the number of new shares involved would be so small.
BoI is already 36pc state-owned, and is hoping to avoid becoming the fifth major financial institution to fall into state control.
Market sources, however, say the bank faces an uphill challenge to convince investors to stump up cash given prevailing concerns about Ireland and its banks.
(Additional reporting, Bloomberg)
- Laura Noonan
Irish Independent
*.*.*
Bank of Ireland hopes to raise €100m in equity plan
By Laura Noonan
Tuesday January 11 2011
BANK of Ireland is preparing to launch a limited debt-for-equity swap before the end of the month but could make as little as €100m from the deal, the Irish Independent has learned.
The news comes after newswire Bloomberg yesterday reported that Bank of Ireland (BoI) would offer to exchange some of its riskiest debt instruments for shares in the bank.
The proceeds of the deal will contribute towards BoI's goal of raising €2.2bn in capital by the end of February, to meet new regulatory targets and avoid falling into majority state control.
The latest debt offer, which has not yet been finalised by Bank of Ireland, is understood to have been triggered by recent expressions of interest from holders of the bank's so-called subordinate debt.
"The bank may target some of its perpetual undated bonds, where it has €600m to €700m outstanding, as part of a debt-for-equity swap," Davy's analyst Stephen Lyons said.
Some reports yesterday said the debt-for-equity swap could generate as much as €200m for BoI, but sources last night suggested the figure would be close to €100m.
Many debt holders are prohibited from holding equity by their own internal guidelines, so the appeal of a debt-for-equity swap is limited by definition.
Those who take up the deal will also have to be convinced that there is value in BoI's equity -- even though shareholders face heavy dilution as the bank battles to raise its €2.2bn.
The bank has already raised €700m of the cash without hurting shareholders, but is likely to offer new stock to raise much of the remaining €1.5bn.
Reports at the weekend claimed BoI was in talks with Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about buying some of the new shares.
Contacts with several other investment groupings are also taking place with a view to executing an organised sale of stock, or private placement.
It is understood, however, that the bank is not actively engaged in talks with investors from China.
As well as the private placement, the bank will also do a rights issue, where new stock is offered to existing shareholders.
Both of these share offers will have to be approved by an extraordinary general meeting of BoI shareholders -- sources said no such meeting would be required for the debt-for-equity swap because the number of new shares involved would be so small.
BoI is already 36pc state-owned, and is hoping to avoid becoming the fifth major financial institution to fall into state control.
Market sources, however, say the bank faces an uphill challenge to convince investors to stump up cash given prevailing concerns about Ireland and its banks.
(Additional reporting, Bloomberg)
- Laura Noonan
Irish Independent
Zorba
Bos 4 Mod
Fondi arabi in BOI?
BoI holds talks with Middle East investment funds
09 January 2011 By Cliff Taylor
Bank of Ireland has held discussions with a number of Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about their possible involvement in its forthcoming fundraising.
The bank must raise more than €2 billion to meet new capital rules, and any cash it can raise from private sources will reduce the likely future state shareholding in the bank.
Bank of Ireland’s discussions are p art of a wider move to attract Middle Eastern cash into the Irish banking system. A senior delegation of National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) officials is understood to have visited the region in recent weeks to discuss the general possibilities of investment in the sector here through taking equity stakes, or the provision of funding by buying bank debt.
Separately, Bank of Ireland is understood to have had contact with a number of possible sovereign wealth investors as part of its efforts to raise €2.2 billion in fresh capital to meet new rules due to come into force by the end of next month.
The bank has already raised €700 million from a debt swap programme and is striving to raise as much as possible of the remainder of the funds from private sources.
With many shareholders having lost heavily after participating in the bank’s last fundraising, its best hope of new private capital may come from foreign investors interested in taking a significant minority stake as a long-term investment.
The fundraising by Bank of Ireland and the effective nationalisation of AIB are part of a fundamental restructuring of the banking system.
NTMA officials and the Central Bank are urgently discussing ways to shift assets off bank balance sheets to reduce them in size.
Patrick Honohan, governor of the Central Bank, has also indicated that he hopes to see more foreign investment in the banks here, which could ultimately lead to a takeover of one or both of the big banking groups.
In the short-term, however, strategic investment from the Far East or Middle East is seen as the most likely option.
With Chinese investors concentrating their fire elsewhere in Europe, considerable effort has been put into discussions with Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about the options of investing here, either directly or via buying bank debt to ease their funding position.
BoI holds talks with Middle East investment funds
09 January 2011 By Cliff Taylor
Bank of Ireland has held discussions with a number of Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about their possible involvement in its forthcoming fundraising.
The bank must raise more than €2 billion to meet new capital rules, and any cash it can raise from private sources will reduce the likely future state shareholding in the bank.
Bank of Ireland’s discussions are p art of a wider move to attract Middle Eastern cash into the Irish banking system. A senior delegation of National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) officials is understood to have visited the region in recent weeks to discuss the general possibilities of investment in the sector here through taking equity stakes, or the provision of funding by buying bank debt.
Separately, Bank of Ireland is understood to have had contact with a number of possible sovereign wealth investors as part of its efforts to raise €2.2 billion in fresh capital to meet new rules due to come into force by the end of next month.
The bank has already raised €700 million from a debt swap programme and is striving to raise as much as possible of the remainder of the funds from private sources.
With many shareholders having lost heavily after participating in the bank’s last fundraising, its best hope of new private capital may come from foreign investors interested in taking a significant minority stake as a long-term investment.
The fundraising by Bank of Ireland and the effective nationalisation of AIB are part of a fundamental restructuring of the banking system.
NTMA officials and the Central Bank are urgently discussing ways to shift assets off bank balance sheets to reduce them in size.
Patrick Honohan, governor of the Central Bank, has also indicated that he hopes to see more foreign investment in the banks here, which could ultimately lead to a takeover of one or both of the big banking groups.
In the short-term, however, strategic investment from the Far East or Middle East is seen as the most likely option.
With Chinese investors concentrating their fire elsewhere in Europe, considerable effort has been put into discussions with Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds about the options of investing here, either directly or via buying bank debt to ease their funding position.
Cat XL
Shizuka Minamoto
Grazie
- Stato
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