Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1
- Creatore Discussione negusneg
- Data di Inizio
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- additional tier 1 bail in basilea 3 coco bonds crd iv genussscheine grandfathering hybrid bond loss absorption lower tier 2 make whole amount matusalem bond obbligazioni irredimibili obbligazioni perpetue obbligazioni subordinate perpetual bond preference shares restricted tier 1 tier 1 upper tier 2
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Topgun1976
Guest
Si ma allora c'era una scala di subordinazione...Oggi non più,certo non in tutti i paesi sarà cosi,ma non cè da fidarsi + di nessuno,visto che cambiano le regole a loro piacimentoio personalmente come ho fatto in passato. se vedo i prezzi che dico io.
faccio stile toro, metto la testa bassa, e inizio a comprare.
mi sembra di essere tornato a dicembre 2009
amorgos34
CHIAGNI & FOTTI SRL
Mi sembra un tantino esagerato...
Se Intesa cala ancora continuo ad accumulare : è già la terza volta (non tu),in un anno che c'è chi paventa il crollo delle quotazioni stile marzo 2009. L'ultima volta l'Intesa 663 si è comprata a 89.
Poi il titolo cresce, diventa ipervalutato (io l'ho sottolineato più volte...)e poi ritraccia. Ma è normale.
Non mi spavento neanche stavolta (sinceramente spero che vadano giù duro).
Quanto alle regole stravolte, ho un'età che mi consentirebbe di fare un elenco chilometrico dello stravolgimento delle regole.
Ciao e tranquillo.
.
bosmeld
Forumer storico
se commerz, va a 50, e ing pure.
faccio metà per uno di TUTTO. e quando staranno a 65-70
cosa che succederà entro i prossimi 2 anni max. passerò alla cassa, e poi una volta per tutte me ne andrò al mare da Gaudente
se invece andranno a zero, non vedrò mai Gaudente e le sue amiche giocose, ma mi toccherà lavorare fino alla pensione
faccio metà per uno di TUTTO. e quando staranno a 65-70
cosa che succederà entro i prossimi 2 anni max. passerò alla cassa, e poi una volta per tutte me ne andrò al mare da Gaudente
se invece andranno a zero, non vedrò mai Gaudente e le sue amiche giocose, ma mi toccherà lavorare fino alla pensione
Topgun1976
Guest
Semplicemente è la mia Idea
Se a te stà bene correre tale rischio remunerato da tale rendimento bene cosi
Topgun1976
Guest
Per me vanno sotto quei prezzi,ma prima vediamo le prossime mossese commerz, va a 50, e ing pure.
faccio metà per uno di TUTTO. e quando staranno a 65-70
cosa che succederà entro i prossimi 2 anni max. passerò alla cassa, e poi una volta per tutte me ne andrò al mare da Gaudente
se invece andranno a zero, non vedrò mai Gaudente e le sue amiche giocose, ma mi toccherà lavorare fino alla pensione
Zorba
Bos 4 Mod
Per me siamo alle comiche. Come fa a scrivere l'Irish Independent che le azioni di AIB salgono perchè i bondoholders dovranno prendersi una fetta di perdite
La subordinazione va rispettata: prima l'equity, poi i T1, poi i T2, etc.. Altrimenti diventa una giungla.
Idem BOI: se rimane quotata, dubito che possano tagliare il nominale dei bond d'imperio.
Che casino...
*.*.*
AIB, Bank of Ireland bonds drop amid bailout
Friday November 26 2010
Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland’s senior debt slumped on concern the Government will force some of the cost of bailing out the country’s banks on senior bondholders.
European Union and International Monetary Fund officials are taking legal advice on how senior bondholders can share the cost of Ireland’s €85bn bailout without triggering lawsuits, according to reports today.
Allied Irish’s €750m of 5.625 percent senior notes due 2014 plunged 4 cents on the euro to 73 cents, a 5.2pc decline, according to composite prices on Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland’s €974m of 4.625 percent senior unsecured notes maturing in 2013 fell 3.6 cents on the euro, or 4.2 percent, to 81 cents.
“While junior bondholders always faced the prospect of taking a haircut on their investments,” senior bondholders “have been sacrosanct” until now, Eamonn Hughes, an analyst with Goodbody Stockbrokers in Dublin, said in a note to clients today.
“It is clear that more radical solutions than simply pumping more equity into the bank system are in the offing.”
Two years ago, the Government assured senior bondholders that they wouldn’t lose their money if banks failed. Holders of the debt are typically the last investors to lose out when a company founders.
Allied Irish Bank
Allied Irish has about €5.9bn of senior unsecured debt and €12.1bn of senior secured notes, all of which are covered bonds, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland has €5.4bn of senior unsecured debt and another €5.9bn of government- guaranteed bonds, the data show.
Holders of European senior bank bonds have been paid the par value of their investments in troubled lenders, except in the case of Iceland, Morgan Stanley analysts including Carlos Egea said in a note on October 15.
There, creditors of Iceland’s Kaupthing Bank, Glitnir Bank and Landsbanki Islands are owed as much as $86bn. Bondholders of Lehman Brothers weren’t bailed out after the firm filed for bankruptcy in 2008.
Allied Irish shares rose as much as 6.3pc in Dublin on speculation that burden-sharing with bondholders would help the bank avoid outright nationalisation. The stock was down 1.6pc at 29.5 cents at 11:24am in Dublin.
Shareholder dilution
“While shareholders would still get diluted, AIB could avoid being nationalised, which would potentially benefit investors” as the shares would still have some value and be tradable, Oliver Gilvarry, head of research at Dolmen Securities in Dublin, said in a telephone interview.
Bank of Ireland shares fell 4.3pc to 24.5 cents. The five-member ISEQ Financial Index has fallen about 98pc from its peak in February 2007.
The Government will seek to raise banks’ core Tier 1 capital ratio, a measure of financial strength, to between 10.5pc and 12pc, up from the central bank’s 8pc target, two people familiar with the situation said November 24.
Allied Irish Bank would require an additional €3bn to the €6.6bn fundraising the Government is already underwriting to meet the 12pc target, Niall O’Connor, a London-based analyst with Credit Suisse, said in a note to clients yesterday.
The Government’s AIB stake would rise to as much as 97pc from 19pc today, he said.
Forcing losses on senior bondholders “sets a nasty,” if understandable, “precedent,” Marc Ostwald, a strategist at Monument Securities in London, said in a note today.
“The constant ‘goal-post moving’ in terms of regulation” does “enormous damage to investor and entrepreneurial confidence.”
La subordinazione va rispettata: prima l'equity, poi i T1, poi i T2, etc.. Altrimenti diventa una giungla. Idem BOI: se rimane quotata, dubito che possano tagliare il nominale dei bond d'imperio.
Che casino...
*.*.*
AIB, Bank of Ireland bonds drop amid bailout
Friday November 26 2010
Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland’s senior debt slumped on concern the Government will force some of the cost of bailing out the country’s banks on senior bondholders.
European Union and International Monetary Fund officials are taking legal advice on how senior bondholders can share the cost of Ireland’s €85bn bailout without triggering lawsuits, according to reports today.
Allied Irish’s €750m of 5.625 percent senior notes due 2014 plunged 4 cents on the euro to 73 cents, a 5.2pc decline, according to composite prices on Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland’s €974m of 4.625 percent senior unsecured notes maturing in 2013 fell 3.6 cents on the euro, or 4.2 percent, to 81 cents.
“While junior bondholders always faced the prospect of taking a haircut on their investments,” senior bondholders “have been sacrosanct” until now, Eamonn Hughes, an analyst with Goodbody Stockbrokers in Dublin, said in a note to clients today.
“It is clear that more radical solutions than simply pumping more equity into the bank system are in the offing.”
Two years ago, the Government assured senior bondholders that they wouldn’t lose their money if banks failed. Holders of the debt are typically the last investors to lose out when a company founders.
Allied Irish Bank
Allied Irish has about €5.9bn of senior unsecured debt and €12.1bn of senior secured notes, all of which are covered bonds, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland has €5.4bn of senior unsecured debt and another €5.9bn of government- guaranteed bonds, the data show.
Holders of European senior bank bonds have been paid the par value of their investments in troubled lenders, except in the case of Iceland, Morgan Stanley analysts including Carlos Egea said in a note on October 15.
There, creditors of Iceland’s Kaupthing Bank, Glitnir Bank and Landsbanki Islands are owed as much as $86bn. Bondholders of Lehman Brothers weren’t bailed out after the firm filed for bankruptcy in 2008.
Allied Irish shares rose as much as 6.3pc in Dublin on speculation that burden-sharing with bondholders would help the bank avoid outright nationalisation. The stock was down 1.6pc at 29.5 cents at 11:24am in Dublin.
Shareholder dilution
“While shareholders would still get diluted, AIB could avoid being nationalised, which would potentially benefit investors” as the shares would still have some value and be tradable, Oliver Gilvarry, head of research at Dolmen Securities in Dublin, said in a telephone interview.
Bank of Ireland shares fell 4.3pc to 24.5 cents. The five-member ISEQ Financial Index has fallen about 98pc from its peak in February 2007.
The Government will seek to raise banks’ core Tier 1 capital ratio, a measure of financial strength, to between 10.5pc and 12pc, up from the central bank’s 8pc target, two people familiar with the situation said November 24.
Allied Irish Bank would require an additional €3bn to the €6.6bn fundraising the Government is already underwriting to meet the 12pc target, Niall O’Connor, a London-based analyst with Credit Suisse, said in a note to clients yesterday.
The Government’s AIB stake would rise to as much as 97pc from 19pc today, he said.
Forcing losses on senior bondholders “sets a nasty,” if understandable, “precedent,” Marc Ostwald, a strategist at Monument Securities in London, said in a note today.
“The constant ‘goal-post moving’ in terms of regulation” does “enormous damage to investor and entrepreneurial confidence.”
bosmeld
Forumer storico
Per me siamo alle comiche. Come fa a scrivere l'Irish Independent che le azioni di AIB salgono perchè i bondoholders dovranno prendersi una fetta di perdite
Idem BOI: se rimane quotata, dubito che possano tagliare il nominale dei bond d'imperio.
Che casino...
*.*.*
AIB, Bank of Ireland bonds drop amid bailout
Friday November 26 2010
Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland’s senior debt slumped on concern the Government will force some of the cost of bailing out the country’s banks on senior bondholders.
European Union and International Monetary Fund officials are taking legal advice on how senior bondholders can share the cost of Ireland’s €85bn bailout without triggering lawsuits, according to reports today.
Allied Irish’s €750m of 5.625 percent senior notes due 2014 plunged 4 cents on the euro to 73 cents, a 5.2pc decline, according to composite prices on Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland’s €974m of 4.625 percent senior unsecured notes maturing in 2013 fell 3.6 cents on the euro, or 4.2 percent, to 81 cents.
“While junior bondholders always faced the prospect of taking a haircut on their investments,” senior bondholders “have been sacrosanct” until now, Eamonn Hughes, an analyst with Goodbody Stockbrokers in Dublin, said in a note to clients today.
“It is clear that more radical solutions than simply pumping more equity into the bank system are in the offing.”
Two years ago, the Government assured senior bondholders that they wouldn’t lose their money if banks failed. Holders of the debt are typically the last investors to lose out when a company founders.
Allied Irish Bank
Allied Irish has about €5.9bn of senior unsecured debt and €12.1bn of senior secured notes, all of which are covered bonds, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Bank of Ireland has €5.4bn of senior unsecured debt and another €5.9bn of government- guaranteed bonds, the data show.
Holders of European senior bank bonds have been paid the par value of their investments in troubled lenders, except in the case of Iceland, Morgan Stanley analysts including Carlos Egea said in a note on October 15.
There, creditors of Iceland’s Kaupthing Bank, Glitnir Bank and Landsbanki Islands are owed as much as $86bn. Bondholders of Lehman Brothers weren’t bailed out after the firm filed for bankruptcy in 2008.
Allied Irish shares rose as much as 6.3pc in Dublin on speculation that burden-sharing with bondholders would help the bank avoid outright nationalisation. The stock was down 1.6pc at 29.5 cents at 11:24am in Dublin.
Shareholder dilution
“While shareholders would still get diluted, AIB could avoid being nationalised, which would potentially benefit investors” as the shares would still have some value and be tradable, Oliver Gilvarry, head of research at Dolmen Securities in Dublin, said in a telephone interview.
Bank of Ireland shares fell 4.3pc to 24.5 cents. The five-member ISEQ Financial Index has fallen about 98pc from its peak in February 2007.
The Government will seek to raise banks’ core Tier 1 capital ratio, a measure of financial strength, to between 10.5pc and 12pc, up from the central bank’s 8pc target, two people familiar with the situation said November 24.
Allied Irish Bank would require an additional €3bn to the €6.6bn fundraising the Government is already underwriting to meet the 12pc target, Niall O’Connor, a London-based analyst with Credit Suisse, said in a note to clients yesterday.
The Government’s AIB stake would rise to as much as 97pc from 19pc today, he said.
Forcing losses on senior bondholders “sets a nasty,” if understandable, “precedent,” Marc Ostwald, a strategist at Monument Securities in London, said in a note today.
“The constant ‘goal-post moving’ in terms of regulation” does “enormous damage to investor and entrepreneurial confidence.”
il fatto è che questi fanno delle opa forzate, ma velate.
mica ti obbligano a partecipare, anche se praticamente è come se lo facessero.
c'è una sottile differenza...
poi vabbè sto giornalista, la cosa la ha scritta male.
discipline
Guest
Come già scritto, le quotazioni spinte così in basso preparano il terreno alla prossima offerta di scambio: valore dell'offerta in linea con le quotazioni più recenti, scambio con altra carta, modifica del profilo con clausola di eliminazione degli oppositori, qualche mld di euro recuperato, articolo di Irish Independent sul ministro con complimenti per aver punito gli speculatori cattivi.
Topgun1976
Guest
Tutto Giusto,ma addio Investitori per almeno un decennio...
e i problemi non sono quelli che hanno dato soldi alle banche,ma chi le ha amministrate e pompateQuando finiranno i soldi voglio vedere a chi andranno a chiederli
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