Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 2

[Tobia]

Ho cambiato un pò le SNS presenti nel mio CT :

SNS155 vendute a ~49 (l'avevo pagato poco meno ... e intanto c'è stato il cedolozzo )

SNS523 acquistate a ~75 (avete anche voi dei prezzi please ? così controllo se CaRiGe agisce bene )

chevvedevodì, una cedola di 11.25 (che, a questo price, si trasforma in una cedola NETTA di ~ 12 % ) mi attira ... certo che QUESTA non è cumulabile, mentre l'altra lo era ..

sono vendite di oggi? 49 sulla 155 mi pare pochino
su iw a 51 si vendono

 

[Topgun1976]

Hai ragione ..... sperèm !!!!

Tra l'altro, non ricordo mai .... se (SE) p.es.tra un mese decidessi di venderla (così, tanto per dire ) la percentuale di cedola maturata fino ad allora mi verrebbe pagata ???? (lo sò che è una domanda da 'gnorante ... scusate )

certamente

 

[fabriziof]

ma come prima mi dici che ti fidi di Rott ciecamente e poi vuoi la rilettura?Sono chiarissimi,entrambe possono differire e cumulare ,non cancellare

me li voglio studiare nei minimi dettagli

 

[bosmeld]

ho scritto lunga email a Ir groupama, quando mi ritorna vi dico.

per il resto mi sono fatto delle mie idee, ma non ne voglio parlare al momento.

per evitare di dire cavolate o di influenzare qualcuno.

quando ho conferme da ir vi dico

 

[steff]

Ho cambiato un pò le SNS presenti nel mio CT :

SNS155 vendute a ~49 (l'avevo pagato poco meno ... e intanto c'è stato il cedolozzo )

SNS523 acquistate a ~75 (avete anche voi dei prezzi please ? così controllo se CaRiGe agisce bene )

chevvedevodì, una cedola di 11.25 (che, a questo price, si trasforma in una cedola NETTA di ~ 12 % ) mi attira ... certo che QUESTA non è cumulabile, mentre l'altra lo era ..

Su Binck c'e' lettera a 74,5

 

[wartburg_12]

sono vendite di oggi? 49 sulla 155 mi pare pochino
su iw a 51 si vendono

Yes, visto che ero by phone non ricordo se c'erano anche dei decimali ... ma temo che il price DI VENDITA sarà quello .. (vabbò, le avevo pagate 48 mi basta così, NON è a questo che miro ma alla cedolina ... finchè NON ci perdo va bene !)

Anch'io p.es. su luxnet ho visto ~51 ma non so che farci ... uffi !!!

 

[negusneg]

TEXT-Fitch cuts Groupama's ratings on coupon non-payment

Fri Oct 5, 2012 1:39pm BST

(The following statement was released by the rating agency)
Oct 05 - Fitch Ratings has downgraded its ratings on the three hybrid debt instruments issued by Groupama SA from 'BB' to 'B+, 'B-' and 'CCC', respectively. All hybrid debt issued by Groupama remains on Rating Watch Negative. The agency has also downgraded Groupama S.A.'s and two of its core insurance subsidiaries, Groupama GAN Vie and GAN Assurances' Insurer Financial Strength (IFS) ratings to 'BB+' from 'BBB'. The Outlook remains Negative. The IFS rating of GAN Eurocourtage has also been downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB' with a Negative Rating Outlook.

The rating actions on the hybrid debt follows the disclosure by Groupama of its intention not to pay the coupon on its Undated Deeply Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010533414) due on 22 October for a consideration of EUR 63m, which Fitch considers as non-performance. Fitch notes Groupama has paid the most recent coupon on its Undated Senior Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010208751) in July although the company's Solvency 1 ratio at that time would have entitled an optional deferral. Groupama also intends to pay the next coupon on its Dated Senior Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010815464) due in late October 2012. The maintained RWN on the subordinated debt instruments continues to reflect Fitch's view of the risk of further coupon deferral.

The downgrade of Groupama's IFS ratings reflects Fitch concerns that the decision not to pay the coupon on its hybrid debt could negatively impact the company's reputation and that the group may face further challenges to its financial condition going forward. Fitch is also concerned that financial flexibility will diminish as the agency believes that the group's access to financial markets will become very constrained for the foreseeable future.

The key rating triggers that could result in a further downgrade include further non-payment of coupons, deterioration of the group's financial profile, especially in terms of solvency, as well as its inability to translate measures aimed at improving underwriting results into a sustainable strong performance in non-life (combined ratio near 100%) and life (new business margin near 1%).


The ratings actions are as follows:

Groupama S.A.
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative
Long-term IDR downgraded to 'BB' from 'BBB-'; Outlook Negative
Undated Senior Subordinated debt (ISIN FR0010208751) downgraded to 'B-' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN
Dated Senior Subordinated debt (ISIN FR0010815464) downgraded to 'B+' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN
Undated Deeply Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010533414) downgraded to 'CCC' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN

Groupama GAN Vie
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

GAN Assurances
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

GAN Eurocourtage
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

 

[bosmeld]

TEXT-Fitch cuts Groupama's ratings on coupon non-payment

Fri Oct 5, 2012 1:39pm BST

(The following statement was released by the rating agency)
Oct 05 - Fitch Ratings has downgraded its ratings on the three hybrid debt instruments issued by Groupama SA from 'BB' to 'B+, 'B-' and 'CCC', respectively. All hybrid debt issued by Groupama remains on Rating Watch Negative. The agency has also downgraded Groupama S.A.'s and two of its core insurance subsidiaries, Groupama GAN Vie and GAN Assurances' Insurer Financial Strength (IFS) ratings to 'BB+' from 'BBB'. The Outlook remains Negative. The IFS rating of GAN Eurocourtage has also been downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB' with a Negative Rating Outlook.

The rating actions on the hybrid debt follows the disclosure by Groupama of its intention not to pay the coupon on its Undated Deeply Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010533414) due on 22 October for a consideration of EUR 63m, which Fitch considers as non-performance. Fitch notes Groupama has paid the most recent coupon on its Undated Senior Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010208751) in July although the company's Solvency 1 ratio at that time would have entitled an optional deferral. Groupama also intends to pay the next coupon on its Dated Senior Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010815464) due in late October 2012. The maintained RWN on the subordinated debt instruments continues to reflect Fitch's view of the risk of further coupon deferral.

The downgrade of Groupama's IFS ratings reflects Fitch concerns that the decision not to pay the coupon on its hybrid debt could negatively impact the company's reputation and that the group may face further challenges to its financial condition going forward. Fitch is also concerned that financial flexibility will diminish as the agency believes that the group's access to financial markets will become very constrained for the foreseeable future.

The key rating triggers that could result in a further downgrade include further non-payment of coupons, deterioration of the group's financial profile, especially in terms of solvency, as well as its inability to translate measures aimed at improving underwriting results into a sustainable strong performance in non-life (combined ratio near 100%) and life (new business margin near 1%).


The ratings actions are as follows:

Groupama S.A.
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative
Long-term IDR downgraded to 'BB' from 'BBB-'; Outlook Negative
Undated Senior Subordinated debt (ISIN FR0010208751) downgraded to 'B-' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN
Dated Senior Subordinated debt (ISIN FR0010815464) downgraded to 'B+' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN
Undated Deeply Subordinated Notes (ISIN FR0010533414) downgraded to 'CCC' from 'BB'; maintained on RWN

Groupama GAN Vie
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

GAN Assurances
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

GAN Eurocourtage
IFS rating downgraded to 'BB+' from 'BBB'; Outlook Negative

finalmente hanno modificati i rating a seconda delle emissioni.

come diceva giustamente Cat, non potevano avere tutte e 3 le emissioni lo stesso rating. una cosa è un lt2 e una cosa è il tier1

 

[amorgos34]

TEXT-Fitch cuts Groupama's ratings on coupon non-payment

Molto interessante, grazie.

A questo punto la 464 a 74 e la 751 a 50 (lettere operative) non sono regalate.(idem la 414 a 42,5)

 

[ferdo]

ho scritto lunga email a Ir groupama, quando mi ritorna vi dico.

per il resto mi sono fatto delle mie idee, ma non ne voglio parlare al momento.

per evitare di dire cavolate o di influenzare qualcuno.

quando ho conferme da ir vi dico

ci fai friggere per 2 gg finchè non rispondono