ferdo
Utente Senior
...Övag ...288 ..ma scotta parecchio
cosa vuoi fare? padella - brace - forno - griglia ...
Titoli di Stato area Euro GRECIA Operativo titoli di stato - Cap. 2 (3 lettori)
- Creatore Discussione tommy271
- Data di Inizio
- Stato
cosa vuoi fare? padella - brace - forno - griglia ...
junior63
Forumer storico
pier87, Baro, policemen
votano per resistere
aggiorno di nuovo
7 voti per resistere
5 voti per cambiare il marzo 2012 con titoli quotati meno
Cmq nessuno fino ad ora ha consigliato la fuga...
PS. per precisione possiamo aggiungere Gaudente che consiglia di pregare
e me e Abulico che chiediamo
leggendo la precisazione di Karl forse è giusto passare il suo voto da resistere a cambiare il marzo 2012 con titoli quotati meno (maggio 2012)
Uscirei dalla Grecia e entrerei su un Senior Dexia Crediop 2015.
Ieri lo potevi comprare a 53 oggi è volato a 58.
Se non saltano i senior Dexia , nel 2015 recuperi il tuo capitale.
discipline
Forumer storico
Articolo del FT, sui motivi dell'abbandono di Vega:
Fund threatens to sue over Greek bond losses
One of the most prominent hedge funds holding Greek bonds has threatened legal action against officials negotiating the country’s debt restructuring if losses are too deep, raising a hurdle to eurozone leaders’ hopes of quickly reducing the country’s debt levels.
Madrid-based Vega Asset Management, an original member of a steering committee for bondholder negotiators, wrote to fellow investors this month to say that it would consider suing if Greece insisted on writedowns of more than half the net present value of the debt.
“Vega believes that, given the current position of the official sector, a voluntary exchange that implies a NPV loss of 50 per cent or less is not now a likely outcome,” Jesús Sáa Requejo, a senior Vega executive, wrote in the letter on December 7. “Vega needs to start considering all available legal options to refuse and challenge any exchange that implies a NPV loss of more than 50 per cent.”
Vega, which has resigned from the steering committee, declined to comment.
The Greek bond deal is the centrepiece of a €130bn second Greek bail-out negotiated at an October summit in Brussels. Bondholders agreed to take a 50 per cent “haircut” on the face value of their bonds, which officials estimated would knock about €100bn off Greece’s €350bn debt pile.
European leaders had hoped to complete the deal by the year’s end through a bond swap, where debt holders exchange their holdings for new bonds worth less. Greece is facing a bond repayment of €14.4bn on March 20 and officials are pushing to get a deal done well in advance so that Athens did not have to pay the full amount.
But the deal’s details were left open and bondholder representatives said the two sides remained far apart on financial specifics. Despite the agreed 50 per cent nominal haircut, the long-term value of the new bonds can change significantly by adjusting their interest rates.
Evangelos Venizelos, Greek finance minister, said this week that a deal was close, and two top Greek bankers briefed on the talks said Athens had agreed to allow the new bonds be issued under British law – a key bondholder demand, making it more difficult for Greece to force more losses on investors.
In addition, bondholders won concessions that the new bonds would be on an equal footing with new European Union bail-out loans, meaning any future default would hit eurozone governments just as hard as private investors.
But people close to private bondholders said the two sides were still far apart on the interest rate – known as a coupon – on the new 30-year bonds.
Vega is thought to have been upset by the negotiating approach of Greece and international lenders, including the EU and International Monetary Fund. According to one participant, at meetings Vega complained about the refusal of the European Central Bank to take any losses on its holdings or for Greek banks – in effect wards of the state – to accept write downs.
The debt swap is expected to offer private bondholders a cash payment equal to 15 per cent of current holdings, plus new 30-year bonds worth 35 per cent of the current bonds’ face value. The coupon is expected to end up between 4.5-5.5 per cent, one banker said, higher than the 4 per cent projected by the IMF.
The IMF has warned that without “near-universal” participation by private bondholders, getting Greek debt down to sustainable levels might be impossible, making Vega’s stance particularly problematic.
To deal with holdouts, Greece is weighing introducing collective action clauses into domestic bond laws, which would allow Athens to unilaterally impose haircuts on holdouts if a certain percentage of investors – perhaps 70-75 per cent – agreed to them.
Fund threatens to sue over Greek bond losses
One of the most prominent hedge funds holding Greek bonds has threatened legal action against officials negotiating the country’s debt restructuring if losses are too deep, raising a hurdle to eurozone leaders’ hopes of quickly reducing the country’s debt levels.
Madrid-based Vega Asset Management, an original member of a steering committee for bondholder negotiators, wrote to fellow investors this month to say that it would consider suing if Greece insisted on writedowns of more than half the net present value of the debt.
“Vega believes that, given the current position of the official sector, a voluntary exchange that implies a NPV loss of 50 per cent or less is not now a likely outcome,” Jesús Sáa Requejo, a senior Vega executive, wrote in the letter on December 7. “Vega needs to start considering all available legal options to refuse and challenge any exchange that implies a NPV loss of more than 50 per cent.”
Vega, which has resigned from the steering committee, declined to comment.
The Greek bond deal is the centrepiece of a €130bn second Greek bail-out negotiated at an October summit in Brussels. Bondholders agreed to take a 50 per cent “haircut” on the face value of their bonds, which officials estimated would knock about €100bn off Greece’s €350bn debt pile.
European leaders had hoped to complete the deal by the year’s end through a bond swap, where debt holders exchange their holdings for new bonds worth less. Greece is facing a bond repayment of €14.4bn on March 20 and officials are pushing to get a deal done well in advance so that Athens did not have to pay the full amount.
But the deal’s details were left open and bondholder representatives said the two sides remained far apart on financial specifics. Despite the agreed 50 per cent nominal haircut, the long-term value of the new bonds can change significantly by adjusting their interest rates.
Evangelos Venizelos, Greek finance minister, said this week that a deal was close, and two top Greek bankers briefed on the talks said Athens had agreed to allow the new bonds be issued under British law – a key bondholder demand, making it more difficult for Greece to force more losses on investors.
In addition, bondholders won concessions that the new bonds would be on an equal footing with new European Union bail-out loans, meaning any future default would hit eurozone governments just as hard as private investors.
But people close to private bondholders said the two sides were still far apart on the interest rate – known as a coupon – on the new 30-year bonds.
Vega is thought to have been upset by the negotiating approach of Greece and international lenders, including the EU and International Monetary Fund. According to one participant, at meetings Vega complained about the refusal of the European Central Bank to take any losses on its holdings or for Greek banks – in effect wards of the state – to accept write downs.
The debt swap is expected to offer private bondholders a cash payment equal to 15 per cent of current holdings, plus new 30-year bonds worth 35 per cent of the current bonds’ face value. The coupon is expected to end up between 4.5-5.5 per cent, one banker said, higher than the 4 per cent projected by the IMF.
The IMF has warned that without “near-universal” participation by private bondholders, getting Greek debt down to sustainable levels might be impossible, making Vega’s stance particularly problematic.
To deal with holdouts, Greece is weighing introducing collective action clauses into domestic bond laws, which would allow Athens to unilaterally impose haircuts on holdouts if a certain percentage of investors – perhaps 70-75 per cent – agreed to them.
Ultima modifica:
chetta76
Nuovo forumer
ciao a tutti
sono nuova e avrei bisogno di aiuto...
anche io sono in grecia ho le marzo 2012 comprate a 49,50 circa e le 2019 comprate a 26
che fare
stavo perdendo tanto con i btp italiani e non mi sarei risollevata ho deciso di rischiare con la grecia ma ho paura
già se le marzo pagassero 100 recupererei tanto
poi ci sono le 2019 che mi darebbero una bella cedola se la pagano
il mio dilemma è
vendere tutto
rimanere così e poi dopo marzo continuare con le 2019
comprare tutte2019
a me se le 2019 le pagassero 50 ci rientrerei alla grande xchè le ho pagate 26 e con la cedola a 6,5 recupererei tutte le mie perdite e più
mi sono informata con una consulente finanziaria che però non mi ha soddisfatto x niente mi proponeva cose assurde tipo zc al 2026
ringrazio anticipatamente tutti quelli che mi saranno d'aiuto
se non vi rispondo immediatamente scusate ma ho due bimbe comunque in ogni attimo libero mi aggiornerò
un altra cosa voi parlate di cose x me arabe tipo swap e cose del genere mi assistete nel caso ci sia da scegliere qualcosa???
credo e spero di aver trovato in voi un aiuto importante
GRAZIE!!!!
sono nuova e avrei bisogno di aiuto...
anche io sono in grecia ho le marzo 2012 comprate a 49,50 circa e le 2019 comprate a 26
che fare
stavo perdendo tanto con i btp italiani e non mi sarei risollevata ho deciso di rischiare con la grecia ma ho paura
già se le marzo pagassero 100 recupererei tanto
poi ci sono le 2019 che mi darebbero una bella cedola se la pagano
il mio dilemma è
vendere tutto
rimanere così e poi dopo marzo continuare con le 2019
comprare tutte2019
a me se le 2019 le pagassero 50 ci rientrerei alla grande xchè le ho pagate 26 e con la cedola a 6,5 recupererei tutte le mie perdite e più
mi sono informata con una consulente finanziaria che però non mi ha soddisfatto x niente mi proponeva cose assurde tipo zc al 2026
ringrazio anticipatamente tutti quelli che mi saranno d'aiuto
se non vi rispondo immediatamente scusate ma ho due bimbe comunque in ogni attimo libero mi aggiornerò
un altra cosa voi parlate di cose x me arabe tipo swap e cose del genere mi assistete nel caso ci sia da scegliere qualcosa???
credo e spero di aver trovato in voi un aiuto importante
GRAZIE!!!!
baleng
Per i tuoi meriti dovrai sempre chiedere scusa
Io la vedo come Road Glide: una parte anche grossa a scadenza, un'altra swicciata. Per esempio, su 100k marzo, 60 a scadenza e dalle 40 rimanenti ottengo 80\100 k un po' più lunghe (mi pare dopo il '14).pier87, Baro, policemen
votano per resistere
aggiorno di nuovo
7 voti per resistere
5 voti per cambiare il marzo 2012 con titoli quotati meno
Cmq nessuno fino ad ora ha consigliato la fuga...
PS. per precisione possiamo aggiungere Gaudente che consiglia di pregare
e me e Abulico che chiediamo
leggendo la precisazione di Karl forse è giusto passare il suo voto da resistere a cambiare il marzo 2012 con titoli quotati meno (maggio 2012)
Gaudente
Forumer storico
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YwKcRqjXnw"]Totò. 47 morto che parla. E io pago....e io pago!!! - YouTube[/ame] minuto 3'30"
(il cavallo e' la Grecia che secondo te si starebbe "abituando a pagare i bond senza avere i soldi")
Ultima modifica:
Gaudente
Forumer storico
ma quale pregare , il mio consiglio sui fecal bond ellenici e' sempre lo stesso:
VENDERE
tutto quanto al meglio e non pensare piu' alla Grecia se non come ad un luogo dove andare a troie a basso costo
Gaudente
Forumer storico
beh a 5 euro varrebbe la pena di provare, peccato che abbia paura delle iniezionianche eroinomane...
Abulico
Forumer storico
Talks advance despite divisions, with an agreement likely in two to three weeks’ time
By Yiannis Papadoyiannis
Top-level officials from banks holding Greek debt are expressing reserved optimism about the successful completion of negotiations regarding the new private sector involvement (PSI+) plan in the coming weeks.
“Negotiations are advancing, there is progress and all signs point to an agreement on PSI being completed within the next two to three weeks,” the same sources told Kathimerini.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday December 21, 2011 (23:06)
By Yiannis Papadoyiannis
Top-level officials from banks holding Greek debt are expressing reserved optimism about the successful completion of negotiations regarding the new private sector involvement (PSI+) plan in the coming weeks.
“Negotiations are advancing, there is progress and all signs point to an agreement on PSI being completed within the next two to three weeks,” the same sources told Kathimerini.
ekathimerini.com , Wednesday December 21, 2011 (23:06)
- Stato