Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (17 lettori)

[mavalà]

Trichet hints at more bond purchases​

Jean-Claude Trichet, European Central Bank president, has left open the possibility of the bank significantly expanding its government bond purchases and warned markets not to underestimate Europe’s determination to resolve the escalating eurozone crisis.
The hint that the ECB could recalibrate its response to the unfolding crisis came as the premiums that Italy and Spain pay over Germany benchmark interest rates hit fresh highs since the launch of the euro. The euro’s monetary guardian had already stepped up purchases of Portuguese bonds, traders reported.​

The ECB’s bond purchase programme has been controversial within its governing council since its launch in May, with Axel Weber, president of Germany’s Bundesbank, voicing his opposition publicly.
But the pace at which the crisis has spread has altered the debate within the ECB, which could justify stepping up its intervention by arguing governments’ borrowing costs were far out of line with fundamentals, signalling dysfunctioning markets.
Speaking in the European parliament on Tuesday, Mr Trichet would not comment “at this stage” on the bond programme “in the light of the current situation”. But the programme was “on-going” and decisions on its future would be taken by the 22-strong governing council, which next meets on Thursday. He also refused to rule out the possibility of eurozone governments issuing joint bonds, although the ECB was not endorsing such a step.
Since May, the ECB has spent just €67bn under its bond purchase programme. Financial markets, however, see the ECB increasingly as the only institution with pockets deep enough pockets to ease the crisis.
The ECB thinks financial markets are badly mis-pricing risk. Mr Trichet said that “pundits are under-estimating the determination of governments”. Eurozone growth was proving surprisingly strong, and Ireland’s bail-out at the weekend had shown the EU was capable of responding to crisis. “I don’t think that financial stability in the eurozone, given what I know, could really be called into question,” he said.
Willem Buiter, chief economist at Citi, said: “The involvement of the ECB is likely to rise, despite its statements – and probably wishes – to the contrary.” He argued recently that the ECB backed by governments could give the new European bail-out fund a €2,000bn loan.
Gary Jenkins, head of fixed income at Evolution Securities, argued the ECB could try “real quantitative easing” through purchases of €1,000bn-€2,000bn of bonds. “It might be politically unpalatable. But it would be an immediate way of creating a firebreak.”​

Ohh che bell'articoletto prima di andare a nanna.
Vediamo se davvero giovedì partoriscono qualche bella news.
PS: da dove l'hai preso?

 

[onik]

thread perpetue mese di novembre (solo in formato html per ora, domani in pdf)

Top "posters" (over 50):
----------------------------
bosmeld 240
Zorba 165
Topgun1976 147
Mais78 146
riccio43 107
ferdo 98
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no_perpetual_no_party 53
zeta59 51
amorgos34 51
pier_pat 50
fabbro 47 eek:la new entry sta scalando la classifica )

 

[bosmeld]

Trichet hints at more bond purchases



Jean-Claude Trichet, European Central Bank president, has left open the possibility of the bank significantly expanding its government bond purchases and warned markets not to underestimate Europe’s determination to resolve the escalating eurozone crisis.
The hint that the ECB could recalibrate its response to the unfolding crisis came as the premiums that Italy and Spain pay over Germany benchmark interest rates hit fresh highs since the launch of the euro. The euro’s monetary guardian had already stepped up purchases of Portuguese bonds, traders reported.



The ECB’s bond purchase programme has been controversial within its governing council since its launch in May, with Axel Weber, president of Germany’s Bundesbank, voicing his opposition publicly.
But the pace at which the crisis has spread has altered the debate within the ECB, which could justify stepping up its intervention by arguing governments’ borrowing costs were far out of line with fundamentals, signalling dysfunctioning markets.
Speaking in the European parliament on Tuesday, Mr Trichet would not comment “at this stage” on the bond programme “in the light of the current situation”. But the programme was “on-going” and decisions on its future would be taken by the 22-strong governing council, which next meets on Thursday. He also refused to rule out the possibility of eurozone governments issuing joint bonds, although the ECB was not endorsing such a step.
Since May, the ECB has spent just €67bn under its bond purchase programme. Financial markets, however, see the ECB increasingly as the only institution with pockets deep enough pockets to ease the crisis.
The ECB thinks financial markets are badly mis-pricing risk. Mr Trichet said that “pundits are under-estimating the determination of governments”. Eurozone growth was proving surprisingly strong, and Ireland’s bail-out at the weekend had shown the EU was capable of responding to crisis. “I don’t think that financial stability in the eurozone, given what I know, could really be called into question,” he said.
Willem Buiter, chief economist at Citi, said: “The involvement of the ECB is likely to rise, despite its statements – and probably wishes – to the contrary.” He argued recently that the ECB backed by governments could give the new European bail-out fund a €2,000bn loan.
Gary Jenkins, head of fixed income at Evolution Securities, argued the ECB could try “real quantitative easing” through purchases of €1,000bn-€2,000bn of bonds. “It might be politically unpalatable. But it would be an immediate way of creating a firebreak.”




​

speriamo, questa si che sarebbe una bella notizia.

il problema é Weber


Trichet sei tutti noi. un paio di trillion, di acquisto di bond, e parte un bel rally anche in europa.

 

[frankiemachine]

sono prezzi presi da euronext, quindi non sempre operativi, di solito ho notato che in momenti di forti scambi si avvicinano molto a quelli operativi ma sempre con spread più alti...poi dipende da chi ti instrada l'ordine

grazie ma non credo che la ing 219 sia a quel prezzo.....ne prenderei una carrettata !

 

[maxolone]

Prima pagina Financial Times

Ohh che bell'articoletto prima di andare a nanna.
Vediamo se davvero giovedì partoriscono qualche bella news.
PS: da dove l'hai preso?

 

[mago gambamerlo]

Sarebbe proprio l' ora che facessero vedere i muscoli et anticipassero gl' eventi .... tanto ormai il fianco alla speculazione l' hanno dato

FINANCIAL TIMES

Trichet hints at more bond purchases


Jean-Claude Trichet, European Central Bank president, has left open the possibility of the bank significantly expanding its government bond purchases and warned markets not to underestimate Europe’s determination to resolve the escalating eurozone crisis.
The hint that the ECB could recalibrate its response to the unfolding crisis came as the premiums that Italy and Spain pay over Germany benchmark interest rates hit fresh highs since the launch of the euro. The euro’s monetary guardian had already stepped up purchases of Portuguese bonds, traders reported.



The ECB’s bond purchase programme has been controversial within its governing council since its launch in May, with Axel Weber, president of Germany’s Bundesbank, voicing his opposition publicly.
But the pace at which the crisis has spread has altered the debate within the ECB, which could justify stepping up its intervention by arguing governments’ borrowing costs were far out of line with fundamentals, signalling dysfunctioning markets.
Speaking in the European parliament on Tuesday, Mr Trichet would not comment “at this stage” on the bond programme “in the light of the current situation”. But the programme was “on-going” and decisions on its future would be taken by the 22-strong governing council, which next meets on Thursday. He also refused to rule out the possibility of eurozone governments issuing joint bonds, although the ECB was not endorsing such a step.
Since May, the ECB has spent just €67bn under its bond purchase programme. Financial markets, however, see the ECB increasingly as the only institution with pockets deep enough pockets to ease the crisis.
The ECB thinks financial markets are badly mis-pricing risk. Mr Trichet said that “pundits are under-estimating the determination of governments”. Eurozone growth was proving surprisingly strong, and Ireland’s bail-out at the weekend had shown the EU was capable of responding to crisis. “I don’t think that financial stability in the eurozone, given what I know, could really be called into question,” he said.
Willem Buiter, chief economist at Citi, said: “The involvement of the ECB is likely to rise, despite its statements – and probably wishes – to the contrary.” He argued recently that the ECB backed by governments could give the new European bail-out fund a €2,000bn loan.
Gary Jenkins, head of fixed income at Evolution Securities, argued the ECB could try “real quantitative easing” through purchases of €1,000bn-€2,000bn of bonds. “It might be politically unpalatable. But it would be an immediate way of creating a firebreak.”







​

 

[mago gambamerlo]

DB VC5 a 103 se arriva a 100 ci penso sopra.

 

[fabbro]

Ciao Fabbro, io utilizzo questo, dovrebbe essere giornaliero.

GNTH10YR: Netherlands 10 Year Summary - Bloomberg

grazie anche a te

 

[fabbro]

ciao Vet,
le due ING hanno identica subordinazione e sono Tier 1.
La differenza principale e' nella clausola di conversione della 127 che comunque per il modo in cui e' scritta difficilmente potra' essere utilizzata per adeguare il titolo a Basilea 3 .(non ci sono accenni a loss absorption etc...)
Tra le 2 nel dubbio continuo a preferire la 587.

Qui sotto riporto i passi dal prospetto base 2009 con l'elenco dei titoli di pari subordinazione .
La XS0356687219 e' stata emessa sotto questo prospetto base e quindi e' parity security a sua volta.

The Capital Securities constitute direct, unsecured, subordinated
securities of ING Group and rank pari passu without any preference
among themselves. The rights and claims of the Holders under the
Capital Securities are subordinated to the claims of Senior Creditors
of ING Group, present and future, and rank pari passu with the most
senior class of ING Group’s preference shares then outstanding and,
once all Outstanding Parity Instruments have been redeemed and
discharged in full, pari passu with the most junior class of ING
Group’s preference shares then provided for in its Articles of
Association.

Outstanding Parity Instruments” means the Issuer’s

7.05% ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on July 18,
2002,
7.20% ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on December 6, 2002,
Variable Rate ING Perpetual Securities issued on June 20, 2003,NL0000113587
6.20% ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on October 17, 2003,http://www.ing.com/cms/idc_cgi_isap...614_EN&RevisionSelectionMethod=latestReleased
Variable Rate ING Perpetual Securities issued on June 14, 2004,NL0000116127
4.176% ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on June 7, 2005,
6.125% ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on September 26, 2005,
5.775% Fixed/Floating ING Perpetual Debt Securities issued on December 8, 2005,
5.140% ING Perpetual Securities issued March 15, 2006
and the
Issuer’s guarantee of the 8.439% Non-cumulative Guaranteed Trust Preferred Securities issued by ING Capital Funding Trust III on December 15, 2000.

leggendo le 2 offering circular nel loro sito ,mi è sembrato di trovare che la unica differenza della 587 rispetto alla 127 è che la prima può essere convertita in preference shares.
Premettendo che anche io ho più ING 587 rispetto alla ING 127 nel rapporto di 3 ad 1 , mi permetto di chiederti se è questo il motivo che ti fa preferire la 587 alla 127 ,oltre al fatto che la 587 ha primo call un anno prima ,che lo spread è 0,50% e non 0,10 % e che non ha CAP (la 127 lo ha al 9%) . Inoltre, almeno ad Amsterdam mercato principale vedi appena sotto , i minimi e massimi (sia quelli dell'anno 2010 sia quelli storici) sono migliori per la 587 rispetto alla 127 e quindi il mercato crede e ha creduto di più --come te e anche come me -- alla 587 che alla 127 .
La 587 ad Amsterdam anno 2010 :minimo 53,01(4/1/10) e massimo 78 (22/4/10) e MINIMO STORICO 26,50(MARZO 2009) e MASSIMO STORICO 103,66(ANNO 2007)
La 127:ad Amsterdam anno 2010:minimo 48,40(4/1/10) e massimo 70,87(22/4/10) e MINIMO STORICO 25,22 (MARZO 2009) e MASSIMO STORICO 96,72(FINE 2005)
E ti chiedo ancora: per la 127 scrivi che che "comunque per il modo in cui e' scritta difficilmente potra' essere utilizzata per adeguare il titolo a Basilea 3" Che significa? Cioè ,credi che dopo Basilea 3 ci sia più rischio che possano lasciare in vita la 127 mentre la 587 dovrebbe essere destinata a morire .
Grazie delle eventuali risposte e un saluto mattiniero a tutti

 

[solenoide]

leggendo le 2 offering circular nel loro sito ,mi è sembrato di trovare che la unica differenza della 587 rispetto alla 127 è che la prima può essere convertita in preference shares.
Premettendo che anche io ho più ING 587 rispetto alla ING 127 nel rapporto di 3 ad 1 , mi permetto di chiederti se è questo il motivo che ti fa preferire la 587 alla 127 ,oltre al fatto che la 587 ha primo call un anno prima ,che lo spread è 0,50% e non 0,10 % e che non ha CAP (la 127 lo ha al 9%) . Inoltre, almeno ad Amsterdam mercato principale vedi appena sotto , i minimi e massimi (sia quelli dell'anno 2010 sia quelli storici) sono migliori per la 587 rispetto alla 127 e quindi il mercato crede e ha creduto di più --come te e anche come me -- alla 587 che alla 127 .
La 587 ad Amsterdam anno 2010 :minimo 53,01(4/1/10) e massimo 78 (22/4/10) e MINIMO STORICO 26,50(MARZO 2009) e MASSIMO STORICO 103,66(ANNO 2007)
La 127:ad Amsterdam anno 2010:minimo 48,40(4/1/10) e massimo 70,87(22/4/10) e MINIMO STORICO 25,22 (MARZO 2009) e MASSIMO STORICO 96,72(FINE 2005)
E ti chiedo ancora: per la 127 scrivi che che "comunque per il modo in cui e' scritta difficilmente potra' essere utilizzata per adeguare il titolo a Basilea 3" Che significa? Cioè ,credi che dopo Basilea 3 ci sia più rischio che possano lasciare in vita la 127 mentre la 587 dovrebbe essere destinata a morire .
Grazie delle eventuali risposte e un saluto mattiniero a tutti

Ciao,
anche per me la clausola di conversione e' la principale differenza tra 127 e 587 e mi fa preferire la 587.
Leggendo pero' la "Description of the Capital securities" , pag.36 del prospetto 127 , mi pare che l'eventuale conversione non porterebbe il titolo ad avere le caratteristiche richieste da Basilea 3 e per questo penso che non possa essere utilizzata.
Nel dubbio ho comunque sempre acquistato la 587.

DESCRIPTION OF THE CAPITAL SECURITIES
The following summary sets forth the material terms and provisions of the Capital Securities.
General
The Issuer will, upon the occurrence of a Regulatory Event, convert the Securities into preference
shares or other instruments issued by the Issuer such to the discretion of the Issuer (the ‘Capital Securities’).
Subject to all laws, including the capital adequacy rules of the Dutch Central Bank, which may apply
to the Securities in order to be qualified as Tier 1 Capital on the date all necessary consents, approvals and
authorisations have been obtained by the Issuer and which may provide otherwise, the Capital Securities
are intended to provide the holders thereof, in all material respects with the same economic rights and
benefits as are attached to the Securities.
Distributions
Distributions on the Capital Securities will be payable on 31 March, 30 June, 30 September,
31 December of each year after the Conversion Date (each a ‘Distribution Payment Date’) and be
calculated on the same economical basis and provisions as the Coupon Rate is calculated in respect of the
Securities.
The Issuer may defer distributions on the Capital Securities,subject to the suspension of payments on
the Issuer’s ordinary shares and/or preference shares, (1) upon the occurrence of a Regulatory Event
(Required Deferral) or (2) at its discretion elect to do so for any period of time (Optional Deferral).
Subordination
The Issuer's obligations under the Capital Securities will constitute direct, unsecured and subordinated
obligations of the Issuer. The rights and claims of the holders of the Capital Securities will be
subordinated to the claims of Senior Creditors, senior to Junior Securities and pari passu with the most
senior preference shares of the Issuer.
Ranking
In a winding-up of the Issuer, the Capital Securities will rank pari passu with the most senior
preference shares of the Issuer.