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innocentiproject

Forumer attivo
1) Magari un olandese preferisce Sns a Uni ;) ( fuor di scherzo , ho capito)

2) E se uno le due BPVN le ha già ?

Ciao :)

ciao,
bisognerebbe capire a mio parere quanto simili siano le situazioni delle 2 banche (BP e SNS) dimenticandoci di essere italiani, ma mi rimane impossibile :wall: quindi servirebbe qualcuno che conti alla mano ci aiuti... ci sono 2 "ottimi cani" qui o mi sbaglio :up::up:
Le BPVN meditavo se alleggerirle poiche sono sovraesposto su LT2... peccato xke mi piace!:D

grazie mille a tutti
 

maxolone

Forumer storico
A mio parere ci serve solo il benestare di Almunia di Martedi sul tentativo di ristrutturazionee e poi si puó risalire..


cercato un po di news su westlb, e mi sono letto i forum tedeschi.


ma sinceramente non c'è molto di nuovo. ancora non si capisce bene come finirà la cosa. ci sono ancora molti punti da chiarire.



speriamo bene
 

Rottweiler

Forumer storico
E' stata dichiarata insolvente domenica scorsa "Amagerbanken A/S, the country’s fifth-biggest listed lender" della Danimarca.
Al link :

Danish Banks Face Consolidation Amid Bondholder Losses (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

si segnala che:

"Economy and Business Affairs Minister Brian Mikkelsen said final losses, which have yet to be determined, will be borne by stockholders and subordinated debt investors."

Ma queste banche scandinave non dovevano essere tra le più tranquille?

Sempre per rimanere in area nordica, dopo il collasso della Amagerbanken A/S, Danske Bank, la prima banca danese, ha annunciato:

1)i risultati 2010:

Announcement of financial results 2010


2)la decisione di attuare un sostanzioso aumento di capitale, certamente non estraneo, tra l'altro, a Basilea 3:

(Reuters) - Danish lender Danske Bank (DANSKE.CO) said it would raise 20 billion crowns ($3.7 billion) in new capital and posted fourth-quarter profits below market consensus, loan impairments remained high.
The bank reported a 12 percent rise in fourth-quarter pretax profits to 1.45 billion crowns, aided by a 40 percent drop in loan losses, but missing market consensus for 2.85 billion.
Denmark's biggest financial institution said it recommended no dividend be paid for 2010 and that it had requested permission from the government to repay early a hybrid loan it received from state coffers during the financial crisis.
These measures, combined with the capital increase, would strengthen group capital, Danske said in the statement.
It said fourth-quarter loan impairment charges fell 40 percent to 2.98 billion crowns, still above the 2.22 billion expected by analysts in a Reuters poll.
As Nordic banks start to emerge from the worst of the financial crisis, supported by robust economies in the region, pressure is building to hand back capital to shareholders.
The expiry last year of a government aid package to banks, ending a restriction on dividends, has increased pressure on Danske Bank to resume payouts.
 

Topgun1976

Guest
Caro Top,

tu avevi scritto testualmente "è il mercato che non la valuta affidabile", io ti ho riportato l'ultima lettera della perpetual SNS523: quasi 103.
Vi sono titoli non affidabili, consentimi, che prezzano meno.(poi magari domani va a 80, ma attualmente il prezzo c'è).
Che non sia GE, ripeto, ne sono consapevole. Peggior difetto, ripeto, le dimensioni.(IMHO)


A dicembre il bond del Montenegro era a 100, adesso lo si compra a 105.5 (movimento che una mente semplice come la mia non arriva a discernere),
visto il movimento del BTP, cosa possiamo inferire ? Che il Btp...:D

E io ti ho risposto che un'emittente a rischio,salvata dal governo (lloyds)ha una P al 13% che corre a 117...quindi mi pare che la Sns sia un pò indietro.

Cmq è come discutere del sesso degli angeli,l'unica cosa che sò è che chi gestisce il mercato è a conoscenza di cose che noi umani non sappiamo,quindi se la Lt2 Sns quota cosi Bassa un perchè ci sarà
 

Zorba

Bos 4 Mod
Amorgos la verita' e' che gli strutturati di sns non finivano nei portafogli di clienti istituzionali bensi nei portafogli dei clienti retail ignari che ci potesse essere differenza tra una sns e una unicredito...
Comunque sia il mercato e' fatto di percezione...nessuno ha torto o ragione...
A me sns non piace assolutamente preferisco il banco popolare anche con un rendimento ytm inferiore del 2/3%...

Sei un po' snob...:-o:prr:

Pensa che io spero di switchare a breve alla pari da Ovag TF a SNS 2017:D
 
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Zorba

Bos 4 Mod
E io ti ho risposto che un'emittente a rischio,salvata dal governo (lloyds)ha una P al 13% che corre a 117...quindi mi pare che la Sns sia un pò indietro.

Cmq è come discutere del sesso degli angeli,l'unica cosa che sò è che chi gestisce il mercato è a conoscenza di cose che noi umani non sappiamo,quindi se la Lt2 Sns quota cosi Bassa un perchè ci sarà

Rispettabile e saggia la filosofia di investire solo dove si conosce. Ehm... però.... se posso fare una battuta, l'ultima affermazione non me la sarei aspettata da te...:fiu::noo::D
 

Zorba

Bos 4 Mod
Rasoiata in vista per i Senior di Anglo?

Bondholders are exposed: Lenihan

Sale of Anglo and Nationwide deposits will force investors to take writedowns

By DANIEL McCONNELL and LOUISE McBRIDE

Sunday February 13 2011

Senior bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide are to face significant losses on their investments, once the auction of deposits from the two failed institutions takes place.
Stockbrokers are this weekend warning senior bondholders in Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide to brace themselves for writedowns after the government moved to sell off the banks' €14bn deposit book last week.
Fine Gael's Michael Noonan, the man most likely to be the next finance minister, gave a strong indication yesterday that once the deposits are removed, reductions of some sort are likely, but only with agreement from Ireland's EU partners.
"Deposits and senior debt rank equal in creditor status, so you can't haircut senior debt without haircutting depositors," said Donal O'Mahony, global strategist for Davy.
"However, if a bank's balance sheet is restructured so that depositors and senior debt holders are separated, such as through a deposit book disposal, then senior debt is left on its own at the top of the balance sheet -- and is vulnerable to politicians' errant ways."
The auction of the Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide deposits, which is expected to be completed in about a week, would make it easier for the incoming government to force some senior bondholders to share the banks' losses.
Senior government sources last night said it would be logical to expect such a move once the deposits are removed, but that such a decision could only be taken with the "imprimatur" of Europe, where there is stiff opposition to any talk of renegotiation.
Speaking yesterday, Mr Noonan said that the removal of the deposits from the banks would ultimately alter the status of the two institutions and would remove much of the impediment of forcing losses.
"There is a question that once this process is done, whether Anglo could retain its banking licence. With no deposits left, it is nothing more than a toxic warehouse. Any move on such an institution is very different than stories of an Irish bank forcing losses. But let's be clear, we will not move without agreement from our EU colleagues, we will not move unilaterally," he said.
Last week, Finance Minister Brian Lenihan deferred a €10bn capitalisation into the banks, saying the transfer could only be done by a government with a mandate.
He said yesterday that the guarantee, about which there had been so much dispute, ended on September 30 last.
"This has left certain senior bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide unguaranteed,'' he said.
During the EU/IMF bail-out negotiations last year, Mr Lenihan said he raised the question of a burden-sharing imposition on certain bond-holders.
"At that time, the EU negotiators, particularly the ECB, refused to consider this,'' said Mr Lenihan.
"Ireland must send a clear signal that it is open to foreign investment. You need EU agreement on burden-sharing but it has not been forthcoming to date.''
He pointed out that, within the eurozone itself, no losses had been imposed on senior bondholders and such a development would be dependent on ECB consent.
As senior bondholders have so far not had to share the losses of the Irish banks, most of the burden for those losses has fallen on the shoulders of Irish taxpayers. There are increasing concerns, however, that taxpayers cannot afford to cover the losses of the Irish banks.
Taking the €14bn in deposits off the books of Anglo and Irish Nationwide effectively shields savers from any case that could be made that they too -- along with senior bondholders -- should be forced to share the losses of the banks.
"The auction does open up the possibility of senior bondholders getting hit, as the depositors will be separated from the bondholders," said Dermot O'Leary, chief economist at Goodbody.
- DANIEL McCONNELL and LOUISE McBRIDE
Sunday Independent
 

bosmeld

Forumer storico
Bondholders are exposed: Lenihan

Sale of Anglo and Nationwide deposits will force investors to take writedowns

By DANIEL McCONNELL and LOUISE McBRIDE

Sunday February 13 2011

Senior bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide are to face significant losses on their investments, once the auction of deposits from the two failed institutions takes place.
Stockbrokers are this weekend warning senior bondholders in Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide to brace themselves for writedowns after the government moved to sell off the banks' €14bn deposit book last week.
Fine Gael's Michael Noonan, the man most likely to be the next finance minister, gave a strong indication yesterday that once the deposits are removed, reductions of some sort are likely, but only with agreement from Ireland's EU partners.
"Deposits and senior debt rank equal in creditor status, so you can't haircut senior debt without haircutting depositors," said Donal O'Mahony, global strategist for Davy.
"However, if a bank's balance sheet is restructured so that depositors and senior debt holders are separated, such as through a deposit book disposal, then senior debt is left on its own at the top of the balance sheet -- and is vulnerable to politicians' errant ways."
The auction of the Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide deposits, which is expected to be completed in about a week, would make it easier for the incoming government to force some senior bondholders to share the banks' losses.
Senior government sources last night said it would be logical to expect such a move once the deposits are removed, but that such a decision could only be taken with the "imprimatur" of Europe, where there is stiff opposition to any talk of renegotiation.
Speaking yesterday, Mr Noonan said that the removal of the deposits from the banks would ultimately alter the status of the two institutions and would remove much of the impediment of forcing losses.
"There is a question that once this process is done, whether Anglo could retain its banking licence. With no deposits left, it is nothing more than a toxic warehouse. Any move on such an institution is very different than stories of an Irish bank forcing losses. But let's be clear, we will not move without agreement from our EU colleagues, we will not move unilaterally," he said.
Last week, Finance Minister Brian Lenihan deferred a €10bn capitalisation into the banks, saying the transfer could only be done by a government with a mandate.
He said yesterday that the guarantee, about which there had been so much dispute, ended on September 30 last.
"This has left certain senior bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide unguaranteed,'' he said.
During the EU/IMF bail-out negotiations last year, Mr Lenihan said he raised the question of a burden-sharing imposition on certain bond-holders.
"At that time, the EU negotiators, particularly the ECB, refused to consider this,'' said Mr Lenihan.
"Ireland must send a clear signal that it is open to foreign investment. You need EU agreement on burden-sharing but it has not been forthcoming to date.''
He pointed out that, within the eurozone itself, no losses had been imposed on senior bondholders and such a development would be dependent on ECB consent.
As senior bondholders have so far not had to share the losses of the Irish banks, most of the burden for those losses has fallen on the shoulders of Irish taxpayers. There are increasing concerns, however, that taxpayers cannot afford to cover the losses of the Irish banks.
Taking the €14bn in deposits off the books of Anglo and Irish Nationwide effectively shields savers from any case that could be made that they too -- along with senior bondholders -- should be forced to share the losses of the banks.
"The auction does open up the possibility of senior bondholders getting hit, as the depositors will be separated from the bondholders," said Dermot O'Leary, chief economist at Goodbody.
- DANIEL McCONNELL and LOUISE McBRIDE
Sunday Independent


quest'aria sull'irlanda proprio non mi piace...
 

Zorba

Bos 4 Mod
quest'aria sull'irlanda proprio non mi piace...
Leggevo da altre parti, che si tratterebbe di una recrudescenza di campagna elettorale, per porre le basi per una rinegoziazione del prestito IMF/UE.
Non so poi che spazio di manovra possa avere l'Irlanda, visto che una possibile contropartita per la rinegoziazione sarebbe la riduzione/eliminazione degli sgravi fiscali irlandesi.

Tra l'altro, il governo irlandese minaccia l'haircut del debito senior delle banche. Mi chiedo: l'hanno solo sottoscritto gli esteri o c'è anche qualche irlandese di mezzo (che in caso di haircut si prenderebbe l'ennesima bastonata)?? Ne parlano come se fosse roba d'altri....
 
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