Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (1 Viewer)
- Creatore Discussione negusneg
- Data di Inizio
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- Tags
- additional tier 1 bail in basilea 3 coco bonds crd iv genussscheine grandfathering hybrid bond loss absorption lower tier 2 make whole amount matusalem bond obbligazioni irredimibili obbligazioni perpetue obbligazioni subordinate perpetual bond preference shares restricted tier 1 tier 1 upper tier 2
- Stato
cumulate
Forumer storico
qualche giorno fa 75
Imark
Forumer storico
Intanto il perpetual Thomson risente della situazione della società, che si approssima ad una ristrutturazione distressed del debito se non a chiedere tutela dai creditori ... la partita si giocherà con i titolari del debito senior, e i BH del perpetual difficilmente porteranno a casa qualcosa.
Lo stato dell'arte in questo commento di S&P, che riepiloga gli ultimi passaggi della vicenda (del perpetual avevamo già parlato, credo in questo stesso 3D).
In sostanza, il differimento senza contropartite accordato dai creditori alla scadenza di debito senior non rateato per 92 mln euro (che Thomson non era evidentemente in grado di ripagare) nonché dai creditori secured e unsecured per la violazione dei covenant cui è assoggetto il loro credito verso Thomson si configura quale situazione equivalente ad un default.
French Technology Group Thomson S.A. Downgraded To 'SD' (Selective Default) On Deferred Principal Debt Repayment
MADRID (Standard & Poor's) May 7, 2009--Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that it has lowered its long- and short-term corporate credit ratings on French technology group Thomson S.A. to 'SD' (selective default) from 'CC' and 'C', respectively. At the same time, Standard & Poor's affirmed its 'CC' rating on Thomson's €1.75 billion senior unsecured bank loan and its 'C' rating on Thomson's junior subordinated perpetual notes.
The recovery ratings on the above bank loan and subordinated debt are unchanged, at '3' and '6', respectively, indicating our expectation of meaningful (50%-70%) and negligible (0%-10%) recovery for unsecured and subordinated creditors (respectively) in the event of a payment default.
The downgrade follows Thomson's agreement with its senior creditors, announced on April 28, 2009, to defer until June 16, 2009, the repayment of about $92.5 million of principal debt due May 17, 2009, under its private placements (which are not rated).
"Under our methodology (see our criteria article "Rating Implications Of Exchange Offers And Similar Restructurings," published on Jan. 28, 2009, on Standard & Poor's public Web site at www.standardandpoors.com), given that Thomson has not offered sufficient compensation for this deferral, the extension of the debt maturity is tantamount to a restructuring below par by a distressed issuer, and thus to a default," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst Leandro de Torres Zabala.
On the same date, Thomson also announced that it had obtained waivers from its senior creditors until June 16, 2009 (the scheduled date of its Annual General Meeting) for the covenants breached under its senior financial debt (including the privately placed debt and senior unsecured bank loan, for a total of €2.9 billion). During this period, the group will continue discussions (ongoing since February 2009) with its senior creditors on the restructuring of its balance sheet.
Under the waivers, the senior creditors--representing substantially all of Thomson's unsubordinated financial debt--have agreed not to accelerate the debt at any time prior to June 16 based on the breaches of the two financial covenants and of limitations set forth in the privately placed notes and the senior unsecured bank loan.
We plan to reassess Thomson's capital structure at the end of the waiver period in June.
"We could lower the long- and short-term corporate credit ratings on Thomson to 'D' (default) if the group's senior creditors accelerate the debt and the group is unable to repay, or if Thomson renegotiates the original terms under its senior unsecured bank loan, undertakes a distressed exchange offer for all of its debt, or files for creditor protection," said Mr. de Torres.
If and when Thomson were to then emerge from bankruptcy or another form of reorganization, Standard & Poor's would reassess the ratings and the factors behind them, taking into account what precipitated the default and also any gains achieved through the reorganization process
Lo stato dell'arte in questo commento di S&P, che riepiloga gli ultimi passaggi della vicenda (del perpetual avevamo già parlato, credo in questo stesso 3D).
In sostanza, il differimento senza contropartite accordato dai creditori alla scadenza di debito senior non rateato per 92 mln euro (che Thomson non era evidentemente in grado di ripagare) nonché dai creditori secured e unsecured per la violazione dei covenant cui è assoggetto il loro credito verso Thomson si configura quale situazione equivalente ad un default.
French Technology Group Thomson S.A. Downgraded To 'SD' (Selective Default) On Deferred Principal Debt Repayment
MADRID (Standard & Poor's) May 7, 2009--Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that it has lowered its long- and short-term corporate credit ratings on French technology group Thomson S.A. to 'SD' (selective default) from 'CC' and 'C', respectively. At the same time, Standard & Poor's affirmed its 'CC' rating on Thomson's €1.75 billion senior unsecured bank loan and its 'C' rating on Thomson's junior subordinated perpetual notes.
The recovery ratings on the above bank loan and subordinated debt are unchanged, at '3' and '6', respectively, indicating our expectation of meaningful (50%-70%) and negligible (0%-10%) recovery for unsecured and subordinated creditors (respectively) in the event of a payment default.
The downgrade follows Thomson's agreement with its senior creditors, announced on April 28, 2009, to defer until June 16, 2009, the repayment of about $92.5 million of principal debt due May 17, 2009, under its private placements (which are not rated).
"Under our methodology (see our criteria article "Rating Implications Of Exchange Offers And Similar Restructurings," published on Jan. 28, 2009, on Standard & Poor's public Web site at www.standardandpoors.com), given that Thomson has not offered sufficient compensation for this deferral, the extension of the debt maturity is tantamount to a restructuring below par by a distressed issuer, and thus to a default," said Standard & Poor's credit analyst Leandro de Torres Zabala.
On the same date, Thomson also announced that it had obtained waivers from its senior creditors until June 16, 2009 (the scheduled date of its Annual General Meeting) for the covenants breached under its senior financial debt (including the privately placed debt and senior unsecured bank loan, for a total of €2.9 billion). During this period, the group will continue discussions (ongoing since February 2009) with its senior creditors on the restructuring of its balance sheet.
Under the waivers, the senior creditors--representing substantially all of Thomson's unsubordinated financial debt--have agreed not to accelerate the debt at any time prior to June 16 based on the breaches of the two financial covenants and of limitations set forth in the privately placed notes and the senior unsecured bank loan.
We plan to reassess Thomson's capital structure at the end of the waiver period in June.
"We could lower the long- and short-term corporate credit ratings on Thomson to 'D' (default) if the group's senior creditors accelerate the debt and the group is unable to repay, or if Thomson renegotiates the original terms under its senior unsecured bank loan, undertakes a distressed exchange offer for all of its debt, or files for creditor protection," said Mr. de Torres.
If and when Thomson were to then emerge from bankruptcy or another form of reorganization, Standard & Poor's would reassess the ratings and the factors behind them, taking into account what precipitated the default and also any gains achieved through the reorganization process
Ultima modifica:
negusneg
New Member
Ulteriore conferma che è bene stare alla larga dagli emittenti traballanti e non fare troppo affidamento sui salvataggi pubblici.
Ricordo che piergj raccontava di un suo cliente che voleva acquistare questo perpetual perchè lo stato francese "non avrebbe mai lasciato fallire" la società...
Ricordo che piergj raccontava di un suo cliente che voleva acquistare questo perpetual perchè lo stato francese "non avrebbe mai lasciato fallire" la società...
Ultima modifica:
Imark
Forumer storico
Ulteriore conferma che è bene stare alla larga dagli emittenti traballanti e non fare troppo affidamento sui salvataggi pubblici.
Ricordo che piergj raccontava di un suo cliente che voleva acquistare questo perpetual perchè lo stato francese "non avrebbe mai lasciato fallire" la società...
Ciao Negus, sono mln, non mld ... mi scuso per l'errore...
Nella sostanza, concordo con te... occhio alle aspettative di salvataggio...
stordits
Forumer attivo
ciao solenoide, concordo con te che certi emittenti non sono da toccare
quello di cui volevo parlare e' questa bad news su commerzbank
da quanto ho capito io, lo stato tedesco si e' messo privilegiato rispetto ai tier1 (loro prendono la cedola prima dei tier1)
e non e' una cosa bella anche perche' i titoli sottoscritti dallo stato tedesco sono convertibili in azioni dunque dovrebbero essere junior rispetto ai tier1
CIO NON E' BELLO
In generale mi sembra che US e GERMANIA stiamo lavorando contro gli obbligazionisti mentre UK ITALIA stanno lavorando pro obbligazionisti
Questa e' una cosa di cui bisogna tener conto quando si comprano le cose.
CHE NE PENSI?
Ciao , solo per far presente che sul sito Commerzbank ed Eurohypo sono presenti numerosi documenti interessanti ed anche l'elenco dei bond a rischio cedola nei prossimi anni.
Allego qualche link per i piu' pigri
Io sono gia' a rischio con Eurohypo, Commerzbank la lascio volentieri ai piu' temerari
Commerzbank
https://www.commerzbank.de/media/aktionaere/nachrichten/2009/Anlage_Ad-hoc_070509.pdf (elenco bond a rischio)
https://www.commerzbank.de/en/haupt...n_1/2009_5/ir_nachrichten_detail_09_2443.html (termini accordo con EU)
https://www.commerzbank.de/media/aktionaere/zahlen_fakten/ratings/Moody_rating_01-2009.pdf
https://www.commerzbank.de/media/aktionaere/zahlen_fakten/ratings/SP_rating_01-2009.pdf
https://www.commerzbank.de/media/aktionaere/zahlen_fakten/ratings/fitch_rating_090109.pdf
https://www.commerzbank.de/media/akt...ch_04_2009.pdf
Eurohypo
http://www.eurohypo.com/en/site/header/investorrelations/ir-news/ad-hoc_mitteilungen/index.php
quello di cui volevo parlare e' questa bad news su commerzbank
da quanto ho capito io, lo stato tedesco si e' messo privilegiato rispetto ai tier1 (loro prendono la cedola prima dei tier1)
e non e' una cosa bella anche perche' i titoli sottoscritti dallo stato tedesco sono convertibili in azioni dunque dovrebbero essere junior rispetto ai tier1
CIO NON E' BELLO
In generale mi sembra che US e GERMANIA stiamo lavorando contro gli obbligazionisti mentre UK ITALIA stanno lavorando pro obbligazionisti
Questa e' una cosa di cui bisogna tener conto quando si comprano le cose.
CHE NE PENSI?
stordits
Forumer attivo
dubbio interpreativo su prospetto postbank
Capital Payments are not permitted to be declared on the Class B Preferred Securities on any Capital Payment Date at the Stated Rate in full due to insuf
ficient Distributable Profits of Postbank for the fiscal year preceding such Capital Payment Period
SECONDO VOI QUESTO TIER1 NON PAGA CEDOLA SE LO STOCK DEI DISTRIBUITABLE PROFIT NON LO CONSENTE
OPPURE MOLTO PEGGIO
SE I DISTRIBUITABLE PROFIT DELL'ANNO FISCALE PRECEDENTE SONO INSUFFICIENTI ERGO SE LA BANCA E' IN PERDITA NON PAGA?
SECONDO VOI QUESTO TIER1 NON PAGA CEDOLA SE LO STOCK DEI DISTRIBUITABLE PROFIT NON LO CONSENTE
OPPURE MOLTO PEGGIO
SE I DISTRIBUITABLE PROFIT DELL'ANNO FISCALE PRECEDENTE SONO INSUFFICIENTI ERGO SE LA BANCA E' IN PERDITA NON PAGA?
negusneg
New Member
Credo la prima che hai detto, altrimenti non si spiega come farebbero quest'anno a pagare...
stordits
Forumer attivo
e questo di santander? a me sembra differente. cosa ne pensi?
the aggregate of such Distributions, together with any
other distributions previously paid during the then-current
Fiscal Year (as defined on page 10) and any distributions
proposed to be paid during the then-current Distribution
Period (as defined on page 10) in each case on or in
respect of Parity Securities (as defined on page 11)
(including the Preferred Securities) would exceed the
Distributable Profits (as defined on page 10) of the
immediately preceding Fiscal Year; orother distributions previously paid during the then-current
Fiscal Year (as defined on page 10) and any distributions
proposed to be paid during the then-current Distribution
Period (as defined on page 10) in each case on or in
respect of Parity Securities (as defined on page 11)
(including the Preferred Securities) would exceed the
Distributable Profits (as defined on page 10) of the
‘‘
Distributable Profits’’ means in respect of any Fiscal Year of the Bank the reported net profit (calculated in compliance with the regulations of the Bank of Spain) of the Bank, determined after tax and extraordinary items for such year, as derived from the nonconsolidated audited profit and loss account of the Bank, irrespective of whether shareholders’ meeting approval is still pending, prepared in accordance with generally applicable accounting standards in Spain, Bank of Spain requirements and guidelines, each as in effect at the time of such preparation. In the event that on any Distribution Payment Date, the profit and loss
account of the Bank referred to above has not been audited, the Distributable Profits shall be determined by reference to the non-consolidated profit and loss account of the Bank sent to the Bank of Spain for the period ending 31st December of the previous Fiscal Year;
account of the Bank referred to above has not been audited, the Distributable Profits shall be determined by reference to the non-consolidated profit and loss account of the Bank sent to the Bank of Spain for the period ending 31st December of the previous Fiscal Year;
stordits
Forumer attivo
mi dai isin di questo hbos 2035 please
grazie
Beh, quindi il "mio" HBOS CMS 2035, essendo senior e con la copertura della nazionalizzazione dovrebbe continuare a rendere un 6% minimo garantito... (ora rende oltre il 12%)
Diciamo che è quasi un perpetual senza la pecca della subordinazione.
grazie
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