Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1

[ferdo]

Grazie mille Mais.
Puoi postare l'ISIN della UT2? Grazie ancora e buona serata.

Non sono mais, e non ho l'isin sotto mano
ma il codice di IW che e' quasi identico
XS01981062 (forse manca un numero)

 

[ferdo]

Questo ti Sarà Molto Utile Bos
London, 02 December 2009 -- Moody's Investors Service has today ...
......
In this context, Moody's also noted that were Bank of Ireland (which is waiting for the Commission's approval of its restructuring plan) and EBS Building Society (who we expect will need to lodge a plan in the near future) to also defer or omit coupons then this would likely require a further review of these institution's B3-rated preference shares and parity securities.
...

del piano di BOI - che qui dice sottoposto ad approvazione - qualcuno ha informazioni su cosa prevede?

 

[solenoide]

Aegon

Conferma che hanno ripagato parte degli aiuti.

AEGON and SNS REAAL pay back part of state aid - MinFin.nl
AEGON and SNS REAAL pay back part of state aid

Newsrelease | 01-12-2009 | Financial supervision
Yesterday, AEGON and SNS REAAL paid back part of the capital injections they had received from the government at the end of 2008. By doing so, the companies use the possibility to pay back part of the state aid within one year by buying back securities.
AEGON buys back securities to the amount of EUR 1 billion. It pays the issuing price of EUR 4 per security, an interest rate of 8.5% and a premium of EUR 108 million. The total yield for the government thus amounts to 19.3%.
SNS REAAL has bought back securities for the issuing price (EUR 5.25) for the amount of EUR 185 million. SNS also pays an interest rate of 8.5%. The redemption premium of SNS REAAL is zero as a result of its linking to the share price of SNS REAAL and that did not exceed the issuing price in the week prior to the repayment. Thus the yield for the government of this sum is 8.5%.
AEGON and SNS REAAL received capital injections by the government at the end of 2008 in order to meet the unforeseen and external shocks on the international financial markets. AEGON issued securities to the amount of EUR 3 billion and SNS REAAL to the amount of EUR 750 million.
Both institutions had stated earlier to wish to use the possibility to repay early within a year and have issued shares earlier in order to be able to pay this redemption.

 

[Mais78]

grazie mille mais.
Puoi postare l'isin della ut2? Grazie ancora e buona serata.

xs0198106238

 

[DinoP]

non sono mais, e non ho l'isin sotto mano
ma il codice di iw che e' quasi identico
xs01981062 (forse manca un numero)

nemmeno io sono Mais, e questo è l'isin completo
xs0198106238

 

[solenoide]

Scusate, ma ormai mi sono fissato con ABN. Mi sono letto in maniera più approfondita il prospetto, soprattutto nella parte Optional Deferral Payments 4.b (che mi sembra l'unico rischio possibile).

PREMESSA: la cedola 2010 dovrebbe essere cmq salva per il discorso del dividend pusher di Santander.

L'Optional Deferral Payments è un gran casino, se ABN dovesse attuarlo. Infatti la cedola dovrebbe essere cmq pagata (i) o con azioni ABN (cosa impossibile, non essendo più quotata) (ii) oppure con i proventi di un aumento di capitale. Nella seconda ipotesi vorrebbe dire che ABN dovrebbe lanciare un mini aumento di k da 43 mln (le cedole di un anno) e utilizzare i proventi di questo auk per pagare le cedole. Ma ce lo vendete il ministro delle finanze olandese che va in parlamento per chiedere allo Stato olandese di sottoscrivere un auk da 43 mln!?! In aggiunta, sui coupon differiti maturano interessi del 4,31%. Per cui dubito fortemente che i coupon possano venir differiti...

Ho notato che in luglio e' stato emesso un titolo Tier 1

The Dutch government on 1 July 2009 announced its
decision to grant ABN AMRO Bank N.V. a EUR 800
million mandatory convertible loan which will be
converted into shares on completion of required
divestitures of certain of ABN AMRO’s businesses. The
loan will bear 10 percent interest and will count
towards ABN AMRO’s core tier 1 capital.

Dovremmo scrivere all' IR per capire se i pagamenti sui due titoli sono in qualche modo legati (il "nostro" perpetual ha anche il dividend stopper).
I 10 billions emessi da ING erano subordinati rispetto ai nostri perpetual ma su questo non ho trovato nessuna notizia a parte questo sec filing
Altrimenti in futuro sarebbe sempre in regime di optional deferral perche' mi sembra che altre parity securities non ce ne siano, di dividendo sulle azioni non piu' quotate (ma che immagino esistano e siano in mano allo stato olandese) non si parla.... sia chiaro che sono tutte supposizioni

ABN AMRO - Report of Foreign Issuer

ABN AMRO Group provides an update on capital actions


Dutch State capital actions

With regards to the capital actions, the Minister asked the Lower House to approve a capital relief instrument (‘CRI’) and a mandatory convertible note (‘MCN’) with a positive capital impact of in total EUR 2.5 billion. This requirement is in preparation of the separation of the Dutch State acquired businesses of ABN AMRO Group as provided for in the shareholders’ agreement with The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc (“RBS”) and Banco Santander S.A. (“Santander”).

Under the CRI, releasing EUR 1.7 billion of Tier 1 capital based on a ratio of 9%, the Dutch State will assume the credit risk in a specific, high-quality Dutch mortgage portfolio, reducing the bank’s risk-weighted assets by approximately EUR 19 billion. The MCN of EUR 0.8 billion is a convertible instrument, with a coupon of 10%, that will be automatically converted into equity share capital upon legal separation of the Dutch State acquired businesses in the new bank and will continue to qualify as Tier 1 capital.

 

[Zorba]

Ho notato che in luglio e' stato emesso un titolo Tier 1

The Dutch government on 1 July 2009 announced its
decision to grant ABN AMRO Bank N.V. a EUR 800
million mandatory convertible loan which will be
converted into shares on completion of required
divestitures of certain of ABN AMRO’s businesses. The
loan will bear 10 percent interest and will count
towards ABN AMRO’s core tier 1 capital.

Dovremmo scrivere all' IR per capire se i pagamenti sui due titoli sono in qualche modo legati (il "nostro" perpetual ha anche il dividend stopper).
I 10 billions emessi da ING erano subordinati rispetto ai nostri perpetual ma su questo non ho trovato nessuna notizia a parte questo sec filing
Altrimenti in futuro sarebbe sempre in regime di optional deferral perche' mi sembra che altre parity securities non ce ne siano, di dividendo sulle azioni non piu' quotate (ma che immagino esistano e siano in mano allo stato olandese) non si parla.... sia chiaro che sono tutte supposizioni

ABN AMRO - Report of Foreign Issuer

ABN AMRO Group provides an update on capital actions


Dutch State capital actions

With regards to the capital actions, the Minister asked the Lower House to approve a capital relief instrument (‘CRI’) and a mandatory convertible note (‘MCN’) with a positive capital impact of in total EUR 2.5 billion. This requirement is in preparation of the separation of the Dutch State acquired businesses of ABN AMRO Group as provided for in the shareholders’ agreement with The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc (“RBS”) and Banco Santander S.A. (“Santander”).

Under the CRI, releasing EUR 1.7 billion of Tier 1 capital based on a ratio of 9%, the Dutch State will assume the credit risk in a specific, high-quality Dutch mortgage portfolio, reducing the bank’s risk-weighted assets by approximately EUR 19 billion. The MCN of EUR 0.8 billion is a convertible instrument, with a coupon of 10%, that will be automatically converted into equity share capital upon legal separation of the Dutch State acquired businesses in the new bank and will continue to qualify as Tier 1 capital.

ho scritto 2 volte all'IR di Abn, ma non mi ha ancora risposto. Sono dei cu.li di piombo. ormai hanno già ritmi da dipendenti statali

 

[maxinblack]

I like the XS0307741917 and I am holding it, although in small amounts. It's not really very cheap, but the 3 Monats Euribor + 207 Basispunkte seems better that comparabel steepener constructions from DPB. Also, the DB-story should play out nice in the years to come.

But maybe you want to try UT2 from Commerzbank which is cumulative (with some lost coupons already, which is positive because they trade flat), or the HT1 which is a Commerzbank T1 (old Dresdner) but with a "Insurance from Allianz" as they will pay if Commerzbank doesn't.
[I am not sure if you had this here already, so please foregive me if I am telling you old news.]

Greetings

I am readings your forums from a long time, I mean BB and WC and i know the story about the UT2 and HT1, and I purchase the latter.

Following the discussions and opinions of the many german forumers that write in a very competent and informed way.

I have transferred this idea here and is possible somebody has them in the portfolio.

Is very difficult for us to have a complete idea of complicate securities like the perpetuals, especially emitted from different countries, and in this particular period of crisis every european government has moved differently.

I believe in extreme diversification and i must look abroad for other choices

So your contribution to "translate" for us what happen in Germany is very interesting.

I have many question for you

 

[ferdo]

I am readings your forums from a long time, I mean BB and WC and i know the story about the UT2 and HT1, and I purchase the latter.

Following the discussions and opinions of the many german forumers that write in a very competent and informed way.

I have transferred this idea here and is possible somebody has them in the portfolio.

Is very difficult for us to have a complete idea of complicate securities like the perpetuals, especially emitted from different countries, and in this particular period of crisis every european government has moved differently.

I believe in extreme diversification and i must look abroad for other choices

So your contribution to "translate" for us what happen in Germany is very interesting.

I have many question for you

For completion sake, I have a little bit of UT2, taking information from Bondboard. I believe UT2 is very interesting and I will increase the amount as far as I have more cash.

 

[Zorba]

For completion sake, I have a little bit of UT2, taking information from Bondboard. I believe UT2 is very interesting and I will increase the amount as far as I have more cash.

Ciao Ferdo, Mi dici per favore l'ISIN della UT2? Grazie mille.