Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (2 lettori)

[solenoide]

a quanto pare Allied Irish bank sospenderà la cedola anche sul titolo cumulativo in euro XS0120950158


ho un dubbio su questo passaggio del prospetto, ve lo posto:

Exceptional deferral
If the Issuer determines, on the 20th business day prior to the date on
of payments which any Payment (which term does not include any payment of
principal) would, in the absence of deferral in accordance with
Condition 4, be due and payable, that it is, or payment of the relevant
Payment will result in the Issuer being, in non-compliance with Capital
Regulations, the Issuer may, subject to the dividend restriction
described below, elect to defer such Payment. Such exceptionally
deferred Payment must, unless the Issuer elects to defer such Payment
pursuant to its general right to defer referred to below, be satisfied on
the next Coupon Payment Date following the 19th business day after
the Issuer determines that it no longer is, and payment of such
Payment will not result in it being, in non-compliance with such
Capital Regulations. No interest will accrue on an Exceptionally
Deferred Coupon Payment.

General deferral of Payment
Subject to the dividend restriction described below, the Issuer may
elect to defer any Payment (which term does not include principal) on
the RCIs for any period of time. However, the deferred payment will
bear interest at 2 per cent. per annum above the then current rate of
interest on the RCIs.



secondo voi, lo stop alle cedole rientra nel primo caso: Exceptional deferral e quindi non dovranno pagare gli interessi sugli interesso....


oppure al secondo caso:
General deferral of Payment e quindi pagarli????



io penso sia il primo caso e quindi non pagheranno gli interessi su interessi, ma chiedo a voi che siete più esperti di me.

Grazie mille a chi vuole darmi una sua opinione

il secondo caso , evidentemente la LP3 contiene la stessa clausola di dividend restriction.

Dividend restriction during period of deferral
If the Issuer defers a Payment for any reason as described above then,
while any Payment is so deferred, it may not declare or pay a dividend
on any of its ordinary or preference shares.

il primo solo se si avverasse la condizione in grassetto e l'annuncio non parla assolutamente di capital regulations ma di dividend stopper

 

[bosmeld]

il secondo caso , evidentemente la LP3 contiene la stessa clausola di dividend restriction.

Dividend restriction during period of deferral
If the Issuer defers a Payment for any reason as described above then,
while any Payment is so deferred, it may not declare or pay a dividend
on any of its ordinary or preference shares.

il primo solo se si avverasse la condizione in grassetto e l'annuncio non parla assolutamente di capital regulations ma di dividend stopper

grande solenoide

è proprio vero che 4 occhi vedono meglio di due.

specie quando gli altri 2 sono i tuoi

la lp3 ha differenza della mia è non cumulativa, ma se effettivamente pagheranno cash l'irlanda, dovranno ripagare prima la cedola anche su quella.

anche la lp3 ha come hai intutio quella clausola

(a)not declare and pay (or make a guarantee payment in respect of) any
distribution or dividend and, where applicable, will procure that no
distribution or dividend is declared or paid on any Junior Share Capital
until the applicable Dividend Stopper Period has expired;
(b) subject as provided below, not declare and pay (or make a guarantee
payment in respect of) any distribution or dividend and, where
applicable, will procure that no distribution or dividend is declared or
paid on any Parity Security for the applicable Dividend Stopper Period;

la cosa si fa interessante...

 

[Topgun1976]

Questo è il Punto,Se la Ue dà Autorizzazione Pagano Cash e anche il Governo,altrimenti saltano le non cum e cumulano le altre

However, consistent with the stated objective of the Minister for Finance of not taking majority stakes in the banks (including in AIB) the preference of each of the Minister for Finance, and AIB is for AIB to pay the dividends normally on the Preference Shares. In furtherance of this objective, the Department of Finance and AIB are in continuing discussions with the EC in respect of AIB’s restructuring plan (which is required in compliance with state aid rules), one element of which would allow AIB to resume declaration and payment of dividends and distributions as normal, including the retrospective payment of 14th December dividend on the LP3 Securities to permit payment of the Preference Share dividends in cash.

 

[solenoide]

grande solenoide

è proprio vero che 4 occhi vedono meglio di due.

specie quando gli altri 2 sono i tuoi

la lp3 ha differenza della mia è non cumulativa, ma se effettivamente pagheranno cash l'irlanda, dovranno ripagare prima la cedola anche su quella.

anche la lp3 ha come hai intutio quella clausola


(b) subject as provided below, not declare and pay (or make a guarantee
payment in respect of) any distribution or dividend and, where
applicable, will procure that no distribution or dividend is declared or
paid on any Parity Security for the applicable Dividend Stopper Period;

la cosa si fa interessante...

esatto e' la clausola b che infatti e' riportata quasi identica all'interno del comunicato , a questo punto speriamo che la UE dia il consenso, stando all'ultima frase parrebbe ben disposta perlomeno a prendere in cosiderazione questa soluzione

The EC has confirmed to AIB and the Department of Finance that, without prejudice to the outcome of its review of the restructuring plan, it is open in arriving at its final decision to giving full consideration to the approach outlined above.

 

[bosmeld]

esatto e' la clausola b che infatti e' riportata quasi identica all'interno del comunicato , a questo punto speriamo che la UE dia il consenso

cmq hanno stoppato ila cedola sulla XS0257571066 Uk 3Lp

e come abbiamo detto se pagano lo stato devono ripagare anche questa...

e hanno poi sospeso la cedola anche su questa XS0208105055 che dovrebbe pagare il 17/12/2009


anche questa però sembra che abbia questa clausola

(b) subject as provided below, not declare and pay (or make a guarantee
payment in respect of) any distribution or dividend and, where applicable,
will procure that no distribution or dividend is declared or paid on any
Parity Security for the applicable Dividend Stopper Period;

quindi anche questa se pagano lo stato poi la dovrebbero ripagare....

tantè che leggendo bene il comunicato ufficiale riguardo lo stop alla cedola c'è scritto questo:


NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN pursuant to Condition 2.7 of the terms and conditions of the PPS that in accordance with Condition 2.4.2 (iii) of such terms and conditions, the board of directors of the Guarantor has resolved that the non-cumulative semi-annual Distribution which would otherwise have been payable in respect of the PPS on 17 December 2009 will not be paid on such date.



dice che non verrà pagata in questa data, il comunicato lascia una speranza...

io cmq ho il titolo cumulativo, quindi sono cmq protetto...

anche se sta notizia nuova mi ispira molto...ù

sto quasi pensando se sia il caso di comprare qualche cosa. anche se ormai le emissioni apparte forse quella cumulativa, saranno molto illquide, visto il buyback...

sarebbe simpatico comprare un titolo pagandolo senza rateo e poi vedersi accreditare la cedola
peccato che non abbiamo certezza di ciò... bisognerà aspettare la decisione dell'UE...

 

[Topgun1976]

Questo ti Sarà Molto Utile Bos

London, 02 December 2009 -- Moody's Investors Service has today downgraded the non-cumulative Tier 1 instruments issued directly and indirectly by Allied Irish Banks plc (Allied Irish) an additional notch to Caa1 (stable outlook) from B3 (negative outlook). This further alignment of the ratings follows the bank's announcement of December 1 that it will not pay the upcoming distribution on a non-cumulative perpetual preferred security (see below for further details).

The bank's cumulative Tier 1 securities and junior subordinated debt were affirmed at B1 (negative outlook) and Ba3 (negative outlook) respectively. The other ratings of the bank including the D BFSR, the A1 long-term bank deposit and senior debt rating, the A2 dated subordinated debt rating, the Ba3 junior subordinated debt rating, and the Aa1-rated government guaranteed debt were all unaffected.

Allied Irish announced on December 1, 2009, that following the submission of the bank's restructuring plan to the Commission the European Commission has requested that the bank should not make payments on its Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital instruments unless it has a legal obligation to do so. Allied Irish is required to submit a restructuring plan due to the substantial State Aid that it has received over the past year, in the form of the EUR3.5 billion preference share injection into the bank by the Irish government. In addition the bank will also be a major participant in the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), an asset management company that will acquire land and development loans, as well as related lending, from five Irish institutions.

As a result of this the bank will not pay the distribution on the GBP350 million non-cumulative perpetual preference shares issued by AIB UK 3 LP. The non-payment of this distribution will trigger the "dividend stopper" and therefore the bank will also be unable to declare or pay distributions on its ordinary equity, the EUR3.5 billion of preference shares issued to the Irish government, and on parity securities which includes the Tier securities issued out of AIB UK 1 LP and AIB UK 2 LP as well as the Reserve Capital Instruments (RCIs) issued out of the bank itself.

The downgrade earlier this year to B3, was based on an expected-loss approach and reflected Moody's assumption that the bank would likely omit coupons for at least a two-year period, in line with other European bank's that have benefited from substantial State Aid. The further downgrade by one notch to Caa1 incorporates i) the greater certainty about the coupon deferrals as well as ii) the remaining uncertainty about the bank's financial strength beyond the 2-year time horizon, which also adds uncertainty about future coupon payments . The outlook for the securities is stable reflecting Moody's conservative expected loss assumptions in terms of the likelihood and time horizon of missed coupons, as well as the low sensitivity of these instruments to the bank's intrinsic financial strength.

The rating of the Reserve Capital Instruments (with cumulative deferral and non-cash settlement through ACSM) remains B1. These securities have largely the same features as junior subordinated debt on a going concern basis, but have a preferred claim in liquidation. Under a going concern assumption, the expected loss for investors in these cumulative instruments should therefore be clearly lower than for the non-cumulative preference shares.

Moody's notes that Allied Irish and the Irish government are in discussions with the Commission to enable the bank to continue to declare and pay dividends and distributions as normal. This is to avoid the Irish government from receiving, in the future, payment in ordinary shares rather than cash, and thereby increasing its stake in the bank, against its stated objective of not taking majority stakes in Irish banks. Although the European Commission has said that it will give full consideration to this approach, Moody's would expect that the bank will still be required to omit payments for a two year period. If however this is not the case then the rating agency will comment again when further information is available.

In this context, Moody's also noted that were Bank of Ireland (which is waiting for the Commission's approval of its restructuring plan) and EBS Building Society (who we expect will need to lodge a plan in the near future) to also defer or omit coupons then this would likely require a further review of these institution's B3-rated preference shares and parity securities.

RATINGS AFFECTED:

The following securities were downgraded to Caa1 (stable outlook) from B3 (negative outlook)

- AIB UK 1 LP preferred securities EUR1 billion (ISIN: XS0208105055)
- AIB UK 2 LP preferred securities EUR500 million (ISIN: XS0257734037)
- AIB UK 3 LP preferred securities GBP350 million (ISIN: XS0257571066)

 

[bosmeld]

molto interessante

si fa riferimento anche a Boi, che molto probabilemnte avrà una situazione simile, con possibile skippagio cedole...

certo questo passagio non ispira molta fiducia.....

"The further downgrade by one notch to Caa1 incorporates i) the greater certainty about the coupon deferrals as well as ii) the remaining uncertainty about the bank's financial strength beyond the 2-year time horizon, which also adds uncertainty about future coupon payments"

cmq hanno lasciato inalterato il rating sul mio titolo cumulativo

 

[bia06]

Gerling UT2 Isin?

Grazie mille Mais.
Puoi postare l'ISIN della UT2? Grazie ancora e buona serata.

Presa con Swissquote a 75 questa estate. Con IW e' impossibile.

Con IW ho preso la UT2 qualche mese dopo a 80 qualcosa.

 

[Zorba]

Ho trovato questa PR sul sito di ABN. Non so cosa ne pensate, ma l'ho trovata interessante per la parte d ABN che andrà con lo stato olanadese, per questi motivi:

- fa riferimento espresso alla sospensione della cedola degli ibridi che finiranno a RBS. Nulla dice sul P ABN (per cui dovrebbe pagare)
- cita il "pusher period" di 12 mesi: se non ho capito male (ma qui chiedo l'aiuto di tutti), il fatto che ABN Group NV abbia distribuito il maxi-dividendo a Santander dovrebbe far scattare il mandatory payment per buona parte delle cedole 2010 dei P che finisco a RBS e - aggiungo io - delle cedole del P ABN
- per cui la cedola 2010 di ABN non dovrebbe essere differita, mentre per le successive non dovrebbero più esserci problemi, in quanto ABN diventa un gioellino, State Bank, etc...

ABNAMRO - ABN AMRO Holding N.V. (the future RBS Holdings N.V.) and the Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc – Accession to the Asset Protection Scheme with Her Majesty's Treasury and State Aid Commitments

Scusate, ma ormai mi sono fissato con ABN. Mi sono letto in maniera più approfondita il prospetto, soprattutto nella parte Optional Deferral Payments 4.b (che mi sembra l'unico rischio possibile).

PREMESSA: la cedola 2010 dovrebbe essere cmq salva per il discorso del dividend pusher di Santander.

L'Optional Deferral Payments è un gran casino, se ABN dovesse attuarlo. Infatti la cedola dovrebbe essere cmq pagata (i) o con azioni ABN (cosa impossibile, non essendo più quotata) (ii) oppure con i proventi di un aumento di capitale. Nella seconda ipotesi vorrebbe dire che ABN dovrebbe lanciare un mini aumento di k da 43 mln (le cedole di un anno) e utilizzare i proventi di questo auk per pagare le cedole. Ma ce lo vendete il ministro delle finanze olandese che va in parlamento per chiedere allo Stato olandese di sottoscrivere un auk da 43 mln!?! In aggiunta, sui coupon differiti maturano interessi del 4,31%. Per cui dubito fortemente che i coupon possano venir differiti...

 

[solenoide]

Allied Irish Bank

C'e' anche questa notizia :

EU backs AIB efforts to raise private capital | Reuters

EU backs AIB efforts to raise private capital



BRUSSELS, Dec 1 (Reuters) - European Union competition regulators will back efforts by Allied Irish Banks (AIB) (ALBK.I) to raise private capital in return for reducing state aid given to the bank, the European Commission said on Tuesday.


"In the Commission's approach to restructuring aid for banks, it is possible for the period of coupon restrictions to be adjusted if this would favour private capital raising that would in turn reduce the amount of state aid," it said.
"The Commission will support efforts of AIB to raise private capital, including measures aimed at providing adequate remuneration to the government's preference shares without necessarily diluting existing shareholders," it added.
Talks with AIB that had led the lender to suspend December coupon payments were "without prejudice to the respective positions of other Irish banks", a Commission statement said.


The Irish Economy Blog Archive The EU and AIB’s Government Preference Shares