Obbligazioni perpetue e subordinate Tutto quello che avreste sempre voluto sapere sulle obbligazioni perpetue... - Cap. 1 (14 lettori)

[Zorba]

Mi ha risposto l'IR di WestLB sul programma di dismissione del portafoglio crediti. Mi ha anche inoltrato un'intervista che il loro presidente ha rilasciato alla stampa. Non si è sbottonata molto. Mi sembrano tutte soluzioni di "segregazione" di asset + fuoriuscita del rischio, piuttosto che una vendita vera e proprio. JMHO. C'è però da tener presente che non è ancora stata presa una decisione, per cui tutto è possibile.

"WestLB, its owners and the German authorities are currently discussing how to permanently transfer non-strategic assets (~ 87 bn €) off WestLB's balance sheet. WestLB aims at using the possibilities given under the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Act (implemented in July 2009). So it could be either a SPV solution or the implementation of a so called AidA (workout entity, bank-like vehicle). There has been no decision as of today. But a set up of an AidA could be realised via splitting off non-stategic assets.

As soon as decisions are finally taken we will inform the markets.

Attached please find a recent interview of our CEO Mr Voigtländer in the Börsenzeitung. (Only available in German)
(See attached file: 20091013_BZ_Interview.pdf)"

 

[amorgos34]

pagato cedola unicredit xs0231436238

 

[samantaao]

ciao a tutti ragazzi,
torno da una settimana fuori e mi ci vorrà un po' di tempo per leggere tutto...
nel frattempo c'è qualche news importante che riguarda i nostri perpetual e che vale la pena anticiparmi (magari una dritta poi i dettagli me li cerco nel papiro)
thanks se ce la fate
carlo

 

[bosmeld]

per curiosità: della rzb 862 quante ne hai prese?

oggi ne ho prese 10k . la sto incrementando a poco a poco....

con questo ultimo acquisto sono arrivato a 40k....
si comprano a 47

Mi ha risposto l'IR di WestLB sul programma di dismissione del portafoglio crediti. Mi ha anche inoltrato un'intervista che il loro presidente ha rilasciato alla stampa. Non si è sbottonata molto. Mi sembrano tutte soluzioni di "segregazione" di asset + fuoriuscita del rischio, piuttosto che una vendita vera e proprio. JMHO. C'è però da tener presente che non è ancora stata presa una decisione, per cui tutto è possibile.

"WestLB, its owners and the German authorities are currently discussing how to permanently transfer non-strategic assets (~ 87 bn €) off WestLB's balance sheet. WestLB aims at using the possibilities given under the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Act (implemented in July 2009). So it could be either a SPV solution or the implementation of a so called AidA (workout entity, bank-like vehicle). There has been no decision as of today. But a set up of an AidA could be realised via splitting off non-stategic assets.

As soon as decisions are finally taken we will inform the markets.

Attached please find a recent interview of our CEO Mr Voigtländer in the Börsenzeitung. (Only available in German)
(See attached file: 20091013_BZ_Interview.pdf)"

grazie varoon

resta purtroppo ancora incertezza. bisognerà aspettare...

se non ci fosse in ballo sta cosa, entrerei pesante...
ma meglio aspettare e far diradare la nebbia...

anche se forse sono solo io che sto diventando troppo prudente



p.s sembra che ing stia andando ancora su....

ING GROEP 04-UND. FLR (WKN A0BDDF, ISIN NL0000116127) - Profil - Aktien, Aktienkurse - ARIVA.DE
ING GROEP 03-UND. FLR (WKN 876814, ISIN NL0000113587) - Profil - Aktien, Aktienkurse - ARIVA.DE


anche il dollaro sembra stia continuando a rafforzarsi...

 

[giannantonio3]

oggi ne ho prese 10k . la sto incrementando a poco a poco....

con questo ultimo acquisto sono arrivato a 40k....





A quanto le hai prese??

 

[bosmeld]

oggi ne ho prese 10k . la sto incrementando a poco a poco....

con questo ultimo acquisto sono arrivato a 40k....





A quanto le hai prese??

Rzb XS0193631040

denaro 44,5 lettera 47

comprate a 47

 

[Mais78]

Udite udite....mi hanno appena eseguito sulla illiquida AXA XS0188935174 ad un prezzo da urlo (66.5). 7.2% di rendimento...e se anche la dovessero callare solo nel 2015 fa cmq un YTC del 15%...

Chiaramente mispriced rispetto alla XS0181369454 e alla XS0179060974 che quotano 67 e 70 e hanno cedola molto piu' bassa...

Ho messo un'ordine tanto per ma visto che mi hanno eseguito ora ci do dentro di brutto

 

[Zorba]

Westlb

Mi ha risposto l'IR di WestLB sul programma di dismissione del portafoglio crediti. Mi ha anche inoltrato un'intervista che il loro presidente ha rilasciato alla stampa. Non si è sbottonata molto. Mi sembrano tutte soluzioni di "segregazione" di asset + fuoriuscita del rischio, piuttosto che una vendita vera e proprio. JMHO. C'è però da tener presente che non è ancora stata presa una decisione, per cui tutto è possibile.

"WestLB, its owners and the German authorities are currently discussing how to permanently transfer non-strategic assets (~ 87 bn €) off WestLB's balance sheet. WestLB aims at using the possibilities given under the German Financial Markets Stabilisation Act (implemented in July 2009). So it could be either a SPV solution or the implementation of a so called AidA (workout entity, bank-like vehicle). There has been no decision as of today. But a set up of an AidA could be realised via splitting off non-stategic assets.

As soon as decisions are finally taken we will inform the markets.

Attached please find a recent interview of our CEO Mr Voigtländer in the Börsenzeitung. (Only available in German)
(See attached file: 20091013_BZ_Interview.pdf)"

Ho tradotto con google l'intervista apparsa sulla stampa tedesca del CEO di WestLB. C'è qualche errorino (si fa per dire...) di traduzione.

WestLB flirts with capital injection from the bank rescue fund
Börsen-Zeitung, 13.10.2009

As a first Landesbank WestLB wants to establish a settlement institution under the umbrella of the Financial Market Stabilization Fund (Soffin). For more than a year the Board negotiates it with the owners of the bank, since the end of July there is the legal conditions necessary for it.
With the spin-off of an initial investment portfolio from WestLB's balance sheet, the process has been initiated recently. The Börsen-Zeitung spoke with WestLB boss Dietrich Voigtländer about how to proceed.

Mr. Voigtländer, recently estimated WestLB, the magnitude for the proposed removal of Portfolio to "at least" 87 billion euros. Why suddenly at least?
This is the state of discussion with our owners. The rationale behind this is that a transfer of more assets in their view may be more attractive. Our owners have been working intensively with the outsourcing and the conditions applicable thereto. The latter have been extended to July 23 with the Financial Markets Stabilization Act
(FMStFG), then eventually changed.

Expect in the event of a major outsourcing with objections from the EU Commission?
It depends on the size. If it is significantly more than we have presented in the context of restructuring negotiations with the EU weakens, and it is especially the remaining core banking, the Commission look exactly sure. If it's just to realignments I will assume that will not object.

The EU last week, the green light to hedge a portfolio with an original face value in totaling 6.4 billion euros given by the Soffin. Same time, it requires the submission of a revised reorganization plan. Expect additional requirements?
We consider the measure as a first step towards outsourcing non-strategic activities of the overall portfolio. And that's what we agreed with the Commission.

Why the two-stage process is necessary at all?
This is primarily a question of time. The discussion and adoption of the Law (FMStFG) has taken longer than originally planned. Addition, the detailed analysis and spin-off is a portfolio of at least 87 billion euro is very complex. The Implementation Regulations require the Soffin to deal intensively with them. Now, this work must be completed by no later than 30 November. It follows: Both the detailed analysis of the owners as well as the Soffin must be completed in the first half of November, so that then may call on the bodies of the owner of Soffin and the bank with it. Very important is the limit on the Soffin Guarantee until 30 November. This solution is a follow-binding: The seamless transition is of fundamental importance for WestLB.

In the summer, their owners had to look at the capital ratios of the Bank to express again a billion-dollar guarantee, which has now been incorporated in a counter-guarantee to the Soffin. How does the reprocessing the 30th of September on the hedge ratios of WestLB?
The hedging brings about the same improvement, which we had planned for June 30. Now we go on quietly and carefully, the total removal.

Can you quantify it?
At 30 June we had one of the core capital ratio 5.7% and an overall ratio of 8.6%. The 30th of September we will again be sufficiently far away from the minimum ratios. This is not the final solution that gives us the time, the overall solution in the coming weeks to implement.

Until when the overall solution is to be completed?
The decisions should - fall as I said - in November, with seamless connectivity solution for 6.4 billion euros from the first step. The total portfolio is up to 30 April 2010 to be implemented operationally. The spin-off, using the conversion law will be retroactive as at 1 January made 2010th The first step, the Soffin Guarantee, we are cautious about the capital ratios for the coming months enough water under the keel. In the second step, the uslagerung, we then create the conditions to achieve significant capital Entlastungenbeim or significant reductions in risk-weighted assets.

If I understand you correctly that the first outsourced portfolio at the end goes up in the settlement institution?
There is the option of losing the 6.4 billion euros in a special purpose vehicle solution or a settlement institution or to a third party with the Soffin comparable solvency. Over the following solution, which is an essential step in meeting the EU requirements, will be decided in the coming weeks. My personal assessment is that the 6.4 billion euro will be introduced alone for reducing complexity in the settlement institution. The probability that they go into the settlement institution, is therefore very great.

What are the major with a view of the overall solution in the talks with the owners?
First there is the acceptance of new instruments under the Financial Markets Stabilization Act. That one must also have understanding. The Act only came on 23 July. There is still no reference case, which could read the owners, how it works. The question of the duties of a loss settlement institution requires very extensive analysis. The issue of funding the settlement institution is complex, but it is also important to minimize the risks of the owners of the statutory guarantee period. Talks on this run, however, constructive and solution-oriented.

With regard to the liability of the savings banks had criticized the legal embodiment of the asylum solution because they immediately make provisions for the settlement institution in their balance sheets would have.
It depends heavily on the design of the settlement institution. Into the institution to outsource not only structured securities, but also non-strategic activities such as book value, for example European government bonds. That is, in the settlement institution is also interest income and reversals. Only when everything is analyzed to get an idea of what could be the expected loss for the settlement institution.

This is exactly but the point. For the expected loss shall be liable, the former owners and the savings banks operate according to the balance sheet pension ...
. . . unless the settlement institution is designed with capital. The settlement institution is indeed a non-banks, and for this the law does not prescribe a minimum amount of capital. Everyone involved is not clear that the settlement institution must receive an initial capital. But while there are differences of interest: The owners want to give as much capital into the settlement institution, and the Board of Responsibility for WestLB will want to lose as little capital. This must be investigated in the next few weeks.

In other words, contribute more capital, WestLB will have, the greater the need for a capital increase at WestLB?
That is correct. The central bank requires a minimum capital to operate in the markets further. How high it will be, also depends on what the capital ratios in accordance with the decisions of the G20 are considered internationally as necessary. For us the central question: How much capital can give WestLB? Maybe we need a third party, possibly fills this gap. This may perhaps be the Soffin. This could perhaps be our own, and I am in the process with skepticism.

If it is not unrealistic to assume that the Soffin einschießt fresh capital into WestLB, where he had knocked at the 6.4 billion euros to a joint liability of the owner?
I believe that the benefits of a settlement institution are many stakeholders are increasingly clear. The law provides that a bank may apply in the case of restructuring and equity help Soffin, if it has a core capital ratio of at least 7%. We conclude, therefore, this option is not enough.

Do you think it conceivable that the Soffin involved in the core banking?
Furthermore, I do not want to speculate. Let's look at the facts in the running of the institution Soffin is merely the instrument available, and assumes no risk. The loss-duty lies with the former owners. That's the big difference from the SPV. Following a recent case the first step with risk-taking and counter-guarantee by the former owners is just built this bridge. At the core bank, the owners must be convinced that we have a good balance between a solid capitalization of core banking and sufficient seed need for the clearing bank. The owners have an interest in ensuring that the core banking revenues generated sustained, not least in order to review approaches and ability to sell preserved.

Would be - heresy in demand - at a sufficiently high capital injection by the Soffin the EU's demand for change in ownership structure done enough?
I do not think so. Thrust here is not the change of ownership. The option to ask the Soffin possibly capital support, we keep open just in case, if the capital base for the core bank is too low. This is legitimate. Why a clean WestLB structured this way should be denied? There are already examples of other banks.

Are there after the exit profitable core banking, which is no longer dependent on the help of others?
We strive to clear. If in the context of outsourcing, the risk-weighted assets are reduced and was taken off too much capital from the core banking, then we have a sustainable business model is basically on target.

By you alone, but - as you yourself have said - can not exist permanently.
Let me put it this way: We do not pursue the hypothesis that WestLB permanently after these steps is on stand-alone basis on their way. A sustainable future, there will only be used in combination either with other regional banks or in the context of a discrimination sale.

Keywords Landesbank consolidation. What are the regional banks to come because of the question?
Each. The one over the other.

What more and which less?
I certainly do not mention names. The state banks that are now fed by substantial capital injections may be but not so much in focus. For one simple reason: With each step merger raises the question of what the combined company is worth and what the individual parts are worth. Then eventually comes to light that out of the capital injections have one or the other amount was affected.

These are but just the banks that were mentioned in the past, because Brussels will also create those thumbscrews. Now you say, the less are eligible?
From the perspective of WestLB they come into question. I can sit on the chair but also to the other and then realize that there are reservations at this stage to open merger talks.

What reason should be in addition to the pressure from Brussels to give it to enter into merger negotiations?
Despite the recovery in capital markets, the requirements of national and international regulation with a view to de-leveraging and de-risking will increase significantly. This requires a significant improvement in capital base. And this may result in the provinces increasingly to the realization that it is not the requirements in the long run can only lift. It remains useful and necessary to start thinking about a consolidation. Get the state banks, which are under EU regulation, similar conditions such as WestLB to lose today's defense arguments weighs significantly less.

There is currently with other regional banks talks for a consolidation loan?
I would not comment.

Particularly in view of the negotiations in Brussels but it would be important that one before the restructuring talks with others to achieve a complementary up to?
Of course, we maintain the level of the CEO of a lively exchange. We are also prepared as WestLB, as far as we can tell, about our experiences. Together, think about how the landscape might look like after the end of the EU-regulation is certainly necessary. It is crucial, whether you are familiar with. But that takes time.

But time is exactly what has not WestLB. The owners have to separate at the behest of the EU until the end of 2011 from WestLB. Even better would be the end of 2010, because then survived a few more overseas locations.
The time window, the EU Commission respectively. We conduct ourselves accordingly. But this also creates opportunities: Once all processes of European banks by, of course, are many bank holdings on the market. Our advantage is 12 to 15 months. We want to use it. Priority has changed but the state bank consolidation.

WestLB will be separated by a number of daughters. Was the sale process for the valuable subsidiary Western housing starts in the meantime?
The process is started, the preparations are in full swing. But we will very carefully consider when the time is right to actually make it to the market go.

One of which depend on?
The market environment.

If the sale fails, threatening the settlement. Is the reverse true, that you would like to WestImmo well below book value? Weberbank example, WestLB has sold its book loss.
We have an obligation to sell, and we prepare everything consistently to meet the schedule. But if it is in fact not feasible is, I expect to find in the EU, an open ear.

Is the participation of WestLB to DekaBank to pay?
Nothing is taboo. But because of the historical development of DekaBank there are very narrow scope for movement of the two groupings regional banks and savings institutions. That's only possible in consultation with all stakeholders. If there are desired changes, WestLB will not close.

The state banks have Deka in recent years increasingly perceived as a competitor ...
. . . perhaps less than competitors. Rather, Deka has invested in businesses that existed among the regional banks already. How many parallel platforms, can afford the Sparkassenverbund? Are worth paying extra investment in capital market parallel platforms? These are the central questions.

What makes Dietrich Voigtländer professionally, if the core bank WestLB is sold?
You have to ask the potential buyer. I enjoy here very much fun. I must also admit that the challenge and the degree of tension that is offered to me here, by far my expectations and sometimes even my wishful thinking übertreffen.Aber sure there are also successes. They motivate the entire team, even if it is partly a difficult path.

The interview was conducted
Annette Becker.

 

[Zorba]

grazie varoon

resta purtroppo ancora incertezza. bisognerà aspettare...

se non ci fosse in ballo sta cosa, entrerei pesante...
ma meglio aspettare e far diradare la nebbia...

anche se forse sono solo io che sto diventando troppo prudente

Bravo BOS!

 

[Imark]

Bayer Q3/2009. L'utile netto cala più del previsto, per effetto di risultati non eccelsi della divisione che si occupa dell'agrobusiness. Il fatturato resta in calo del 7%. Conserva il target 2009 di un calo dell'EBITDA limitato al 5% sull'anno precedente e di una salita dell'EBITDA margin della divisione farmaceutica al 28%. Conferma anche l'obiettivo di fatturato finale fra i 31 ed i 32 mld euro.

In linea di massima, nel prossimo trimestre si attende risultati in leggera crescita rispetto a quelli dell'ultimo trimestre 2008.

Per la cedola del perpetual non dovremmo avere problemi ... bond verso quota 94 (ask di chiusura sui principali mercati tedeschi) e rednimento lordo in discesa rispetto al 5,5% che aveva costituito una sorta di soglia difficile da superare nei mesi scorsi...

• OCTOBER 27, 2009, 3:16 A.M. ET

Bayer 3Q Net Pft Falls 10%; Sticks To 09 Outlook

By Allison Connolly

OF DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--German pharmaceutical and chemical company Bayer AG (BAYN.XE) said Tuesday third-quarter net profit fell 10% after CropScience results fell well below the year earlier level, but it maintains its 2009 outlook.

Net profit after minorities for the quarter was EUR249 million from EUR277 million during the same period a year earlier. Analysts had expected net profit of EUR305 million.

Revenue for the period was EUR7.39 billion, down 7% from EUR7.95 billion a year ago and below analysts' estimates of EUR7.55 billion.

For 2009, the company still aims to limit the decline in this year's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, or Ebitda--Bayer's key earnings figure--before special items to 5%. It also expects underlying Ebitda margin for the HealthCare division for the full year improving toward 28%. It still expects overall group sales of between EUR31 billion and EUR32 billion.

Bayer sees slight growth during the fourth quarter compared with the year-earlier period.

Bayer shares closed Monday at EUR47.82. So far this year, the shares have gained a little over 11% of their value, underperforming the Dow Jones Euro Stoxx Chemicals Index which has increased about 23%.